2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

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Jonchaka
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2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Jonchaka » October 20th, 2018, 4:17 pm

Hi all,

I searched other threads on here, but not convinced it's the same as other people experienced.

It's a 2013 BT50, 3.2L Auto.
On a cold start-up, this noise is there. Sounds kind of like liquid flowing/rotating noise/tappets, but I'm not sure. There is a pattern to it.
Sounds more detailed on my phone...

Only happens when cold after sitting overnight, video taken stationary in park. Gearbox never adjusted. Video shot within 30 seconds of start up.

Sound is non-existent after warm up. 5 minutes of driving and everything sounds healthy.
Can only hear this in the cabin with everything turned off. Sounds like it's coming from behind the dash, centre.

Could not hear it underneath or in the engine bay.

Video shot in drivers foot well, centre of car.

Any ideas?
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1H21TB ... K3ICGiEvD5

Cheers,
John

Car is under statutory warranty.

Scantek
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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Scantek » October 20th, 2018, 5:45 pm

Hi John
That sounds like sticky hydraulic lifters but I doubt those engines have them.
I'm assuming the noise is coming from the engine not the gearbox?
I couldn't hear the fluid you talked about.
How does it sound with the bonnet up?
My little 2.8 ISF Cummins has the typical diesel rattle from the fuel pump that sounds like tappets. A little 2stroke in the fuel does reduce that rattle a bit

Cheers
Russ

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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Jonchaka » October 21st, 2018, 4:22 am

Thanks Russ.

Yeah, it's coming from the engine. I climbed under the gearbox and nothing there. It's difficult to hear around the engine, under or above. It's more prominent inside the cabin. I'm guessing the cabin is insulating some of the higher frequency noises. I'll probably need to do the long screwdriver/stethoscope trick to find it.

The fluid noise might just be me. I originally thought it was the heater core.

Cheers,
John

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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Scantek » October 21st, 2018, 11:25 am

I just went back, looked and listened again on my PC (with reasonable speakers) and if you say the tick tick tick noise is coming from the rear of the engine it could be the EGR valve opening and closing.
I'm not familiar with the lay out of the engine bay but I'd have a look in the engine bay and see what equipment is behind the fire wall where you hear the sound loudest.
How many kilometers has the vehicle traveled?

I just had a thought, when its cold and before you start it up pour some soapy water around the injectors. Start the engine and look for bubbles. You'll need to remove the plastic engine cover to get at them.
If you see any bubbles you will have a leaking injector seal. Get your mechanic to replace them all and ASAP. If you leave it too long the bloody things get carbon build up around them and they become jammed in the hole. I know I replaced a seal on my 2007 Ranger once and it took me 4hrs and a lot of cursing just to get the injector out.
Its not expensive to replace those seals. They are only a couple of dollars each (crushable copper washer).

See what you can find mate

Cheers
Russ

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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by hoyks » October 21st, 2018, 12:04 pm

I'm not much help as I'm 3/4 deaf and can't hear high frequency stuff, even with headphones.
Do you have an OBD2 reader and is it giving you any information?

I don't think it is the EGR as the actuator for that can be clearly heard cycling on shutdown.
I'd be careful before pulling injectors too as I vaguely recall the rigid supply lines are meant to be replaced once you undo them.

There was some discussion on Newranger.net, maybe yours is similar?
http://www.newranger.net/forums/viewtop ... 1&p=126296

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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Peter Aawen » October 21st, 2018, 12:48 pm

I would've thought that Scantek's suggestion was a good chance for explaining the tick tick tick noise :thumb: but as Hoyks has added, you need to be a little careful in playing with the injectors & fuel lines - and NEVER work on pressurised diesel hoses, as getting squirted with hp diesel that get into your blood stream can be very quickly fatal!! Either way, I certainly didn't hear enough to offer any alternatives....

As for the fluid noise, it could just be coolant circulating thru the heater & heat exchanger in the cab, and quite normal.... but if it's excessive or really loud, maybe there's more to it than just the normal coolant flow on start-up? Have you (or anyone?) ever had the radiator or thermostat out, or drained & refilled the cooling system?? If that's not done correctly (which btw can occur on new cars too!) you can trap air bubbles in the heater system, and because they are in the heater side of things, they can take ages to work their way out, IF they ever do, and all the while they may have little if any impact on your normal engine cooling - but in the meantime they can give you a fairly loud & clearly audible 'rushing/flowing water' noise in the cabin on first start up, which goes away as the coolant & system gets warm & compresses the trapped air somewhere in the heat exchanger system in the cab! Once you stop overnight or for more than just an hour or so & everything cools down again, the air expands once more & you get the noise again on the next cold start!! But it usually doesn't happen at your second start for the day or whenever things haven't cooled all the way back to ambient, so saaayyy, 4 or 5 hours of being parked in the shade!

As mentioned, I can't say I heard anything like that, but you should bear in mind that recordings played over the internet are really not all that great as tools for identifying issues, there's waaaaayyy too much interference & noise distortion at every step along the way - from the recording device & its possibly 'less than ideal' siting, thru the actual recording, the uploading to a device to allow its transfer to the internet & then its playing over the internet on possibly dubious applications (youtube & facebook are amongst the worst!) as well as potentially poor quality speakers using poorer quality sound drivers on less than ideal devices!! And then there's the hearing of the listener, which may no longer be as acute as it used to be!! So me or anyone not hearing the noise you are concerned about isn't any real indication that it isn't there or that it couldn't possibly be a major issue vs anything else!!

Buuut, bearing that lot in mind, are there any possible fixes for the air bubbles thing?! Sure - you could try this, or maybe better yet, you could ask your local radiator mob to have a go - altho that might cost you a bit?!? When things are cold, put the heater controls on full HOT & raise the front wheels on ramps or something to lift the radiator so that it's the highest bit in the cooling system; open any purge vents or maybe take the heater circulation return hose off as well as opening the radiator cap (stick a hose extn on the heater outlet to run any coolant back into the radiator/cooling system - it needs to purge air out of the heater section but keep the coolant level up & still flowing!) & start the car so you can let it fast idle for at least a couple of 'thermostat openings' or 30 or so minutes, making sure you keep the coolant level topped up the entire time. Once the coolant has expanded & there are no air bubbles coming out anywhere anymore, but while everything is still circulating & air bubble free, re-connect the heater hose first, then the radiator cap & overflow system, and only then shut things down. If all your heater compnents & the cooling system caps, hoses, & fan hubs etc are all up to speed & there are no leaks or air bleed points left to let air in, then any 'fluid flow' noise should be minimised if not entirely removed. If the cooling system works properly from there on, you should expect that any remaining fluid noises are 'normal'.... at least until proven otherwise! :o

Good Luck!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

Scantek
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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Scantek » October 22nd, 2018, 8:46 am

Hi
Yes absolutely don't mess with high pressure diesel.
I would get a mechanic to do any injector work on the engine. I'me not suggesting you do that if your not compitent.
With regard to the injector pipes, I don't know what the spec is on yours but when I looked into mine prior to removing them, you could re-use them 3 times only before you had to replace them
As I knew that they had never been taken off before I knew I could re-use mine.
Yours may be different though.

Cheers

Jonchaka
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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Jonchaka » October 26th, 2018, 11:54 am

Hi all,
finally found the problem and it's nothing to do with the donk as first thought.
Car only has 106'000km on the clock. Still young in the whole scheme of things.

The noise is from the air mixer behind the center of the dash. Putting my hand up in there and I can feel the vibrations matching the sound and the levers oscillating. I found something earlier that was talking about it which made me investigate. I'll have to hunt for it again. Apparently it's common enough. Some teeth grind off the first section of the plastic gears and the air mixer will hunt for absolute start (cold setting), but never get there.

I never noticed it before, but it will continue for more than 20 minutes after the key has been removed sometimes.

Will have a better look at it tomorrow. Looks like I'll be driving it back to the dealer and having them replace it now that I know what it is.

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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Peter Aawen » October 26th, 2018, 12:05 pm

Well it's great that you found the source, but what the heck would've caused the placcy gears to strip in the first place?? Is it missing a stop, or maybe just a poor design that relies on driving the gears until they won't drive anymore on start-up?? In either case, why would yours have stripped when most of the other BT50's out there haven't?? Or do they all have the same issue & you're the only person to have noticed?? :ooh:

Food for thought, and maybe asking the dealer too?! Good Luck! :thumb:
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

Jonchaka
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Re: 2013 BT50, tappet/rattle/liquid flowing noise only when cold. Video (Audio)

Unread post by Jonchaka » October 26th, 2018, 3:44 pm

From what I know, the flap gets stuck or the limit switch fails.
From the bulletin:

2011-13 Mazda UP BT-50: HVAC actuator (P1307) service campaign

In late 2013, a service bulletin was issued for Mazda UP BT-50 vehicles that were manufactured from 2011 to 2013. In these vehicles, the air conditioning system had actuators (one for each side of the vehicle) that controlled the proportion of hot and cold air. These actuators had plastic gears that could be stripped, or the actuator motor could fail.

Symptoms of a faulty actuator are:
A clicking noise on start-up or when the HVAC (heating, ventilation and air conditioning) controls are used; and,
The air conditioning system blowing fully hot or fully cold air.

If the actuators were still working, they would be re-programmed to prevent ‘over travel’. If, however, the actuators were faulty, then they would be replaced and re-programmed.

Found it here:
http://m.australiancar.reviews/reviews. ... 50&gen=572

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