Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas?

drodda
Getting to know the place
Posts: 19
Joined: October 13th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by drodda » September 22nd, 2015, 4:38 pm

Mine is an auto.
It goes into and out of 4wd first time every time - UNLESS it starts up in fault mode - both lights on, speedo wrong, in which case it stays in 4wd. Sometimes it fixes itself at high speed (>90km/h), sometimes it fixes itself next start, sometimes it stays on for ages.
I'll try to pick up a second hand one - the problem is, with an intermittent fault I won't know if I have solved the problem or if it just went away again.

mydmax
Need to get out more
Posts: 5384
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 10:43 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » September 22nd, 2015, 5:02 pm

The section in the Transfer case has rotary contacts in it and they seem to be dirty and intermittent. Some have turned the cover slightly and it then seems ok, BUT the best fix is to remove the cover and clean and grease the contacts so definite sliding contacting is happening and therefore no errors sent to the change controller.
You shouldn't need a replacement if it is clean inside AND contacting. They are designed to work if all is correct.

mamoth
Here and there
Posts: 61
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 6:35 pm
Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » September 22nd, 2015, 6:02 pm

not saying a thing
s elsworth

Les - PK Ranger
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1147
Joined: December 5th, 2011, 8:39 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Les - PK Ranger » September 22nd, 2015, 7:56 pm

The part isn't serviceable I'm pretty sure, like the post early in this (or another similar) thread where for example a Bronco TC module could be opened and cleaned / repaired.
I could be wrong, I was once . . . no, hang on, that's wrong . . . oh d@mn. :D

fleetwood
Been here a while
Posts: 118
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 3:31 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » September 22nd, 2015, 11:00 pm

No. Completely sealed position sensor in these. Contacts can't get dirty or be serviced. It's the old explorer shift motors that you had to pull apart to clean contacts & replace bump stop..

On these the internal drive gear is held in position by the worm drive from the shift motor. The position sensor plate attaches by those three torx head screws. The plate holding the position sensor can be swiveled when the screws are loosened, & the 'contact' is fixed in place as part of the drive gear.

mydmax
Need to get out more
Posts: 5384
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 10:43 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » September 23rd, 2015, 9:22 am

Even with a sealed unit the contacts can become dirty and some blokes have altered the position slightly and restored the operation. Sealed doesn't mean they can't get dirty and lose contact.
The fault still points to the contacts being less than OK.

Drill a hole in it and spray electrical cleaner through it and then some spray Lithium grease to assist normal operation.

It all gets down to the quality of the switch used. Ford doesn't use the best available, just the most cost effective for them. It seems these have shortcomings and give trouble.

drodda
Getting to know the place
Posts: 19
Joined: October 13th, 2014, 8:13 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by drodda » September 23rd, 2015, 10:17 am

I have wondered if just the position sensor can be replaced? Any idea where you would get one?
mydmax - have you drilled into and cleaned the inside of yours?

Les - PK Ranger
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1147
Joined: December 5th, 2011, 8:39 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Les - PK Ranger » September 23rd, 2015, 2:12 pm

fleetwood wrote:It's the old explorer shift motors that you had to pull apart to clean contacts & replace bump stop..
That's the one !! It might even be in this thread way back (pics etc).
mydmax wrote:Drill a hole in it and spray electrical cleaner through it and then some spray Lithium grease to assist normal operation.
Worth a shot, but make sure you don't stuff it up and have in 4WD where you can't drive it on the road until you source new / 2nd hand part !!
mydmax wrote:Ford doesn't use the best available, just the most cost effective for them.
I'm sure ALL manufacturers are the same there !! :/
Anything to save 10c (or probably less) even if the better alternative is twice as good / more reliable !!

fleetwood
Been here a while
Posts: 118
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 3:31 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » September 24th, 2015, 11:02 pm

drodda wrote:I have wondered if just the position sensor can be replaced? Any idea where you would get one?
mydmax - have you drilled into and cleaned the inside of yours?
Nah, unfortunately not.. It's a sealed unit that comes as part of the transfer case shift motor. I think ford want about $1200. You can get one from the states for under $400. Just need to replace the plug with the original from old motor. I have also heard that the Great wall uses the same shift motor & they are a good deal less to buy than from Ford. Haven't confirmed that though..

I am fairly dubious about the merits of drilling a hole into that unit & spraying stuff around. The unit uses a sensor, not 'contacts' as such... From my experience, the problem really is not a dirty 'contact' problem, but the sensor goes slightly out of alignment over time... I guess the evidence of that is swiveling the plate slightly restores proper operation

Cheers
Rob

mydmax
Need to get out more
Posts: 5384
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 10:43 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » September 24th, 2015, 11:26 pm

fleetwood

What style of sensor is used if not a contacting type? Hardly magnetic, ie, Hall effect. Very likely to be contacts. I haven't looked inside one but other vehicles use contacts which are in sequence with the rotary changer. That seems to be the reason moving them alters/restores contact and normal operation.

Either opening or flushing out was done on auto inhibitor switches so they again contacted and allowed starting to occur.
The TC unit only does a simple job. here, here or here.ie High, Neutral, Low, positioning when the operation has been completed/achieved.
I would be opening one to see the problem.

mamoth
Here and there
Posts: 61
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 6:35 pm
Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » September 25th, 2015, 2:44 pm

G/day all
I recon cheech & chong would get a real good laugh out of this thread
s elsworth

Les - PK Ranger
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1147
Joined: December 5th, 2011, 8:39 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Les - PK Ranger » September 25th, 2015, 3:53 pm

Oh wow man :D

mydmax
Need to get out more
Posts: 5384
Joined: August 4th, 2011, 10:43 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » September 25th, 2015, 6:03 pm

mammoth.
You seem to have never repaired anything or rectified faults. You would be surprised at what CAN be done to fix sealed units.
I used to do many vehicle items no one else in my town would ever bother with. Some of the repaired items often went to dealerships and were used by them.
Today's society doesn't ever seem to try and save the planet and they certainly always want an easy fix.
When that is the case you buy a new one from the dealer.

Solenoids
Unobtainable electric window winders.
Auto transmissions,
Alternators,
Starters
Some 4WD gear too.

It can be done, all you have to have is the desire to try.

For the quoted $$$$'s I would have a TC change unit apart and find what IS wrong and fix it. Just opening it should reveal what the inherent problem is, if you can't guess.

mamoth
Here and there
Posts: 61
Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 6:35 pm
Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » September 25th, 2015, 10:56 pm

mydmax
i was not pointing the finger at any one
for your info i am a 53 yr old man and i have repaired every thing from my kids toys to houses
destroyed in cyclones
cheers
steve
ps sorry if i offended any one
bit of sarcasam
s elsworth

fleetwood
Been here a while
Posts: 118
Joined: June 19th, 2012, 3:31 pm

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » September 26th, 2015, 9:01 am

mydmax wrote: For the quoted $$$$'s I would have a TC change unit apart and find what IS wrong and fix it. Just opening it should reveal what the inherent problem is, if you can't guess.

Umm... for the last time - it's a sealed unit. To open it & have a look you have to destroy it!!

Look. I'm sure you are a great mechanic & a whiz at fixing things, but I can't for the life of me see why on earth a person would want to go drilling holes into things & spraying stuff in there or whatever, instead of just simply loosening the torx head bits & swiveling the plate. That is what it's designed that way for, to be adjustable! If it's a position sensor problem, adjusting that plate WILL fix it... no $$$$$ required to do that. Takes less than 5 minutes

Return to “PJ/PK Ranger / Old BT50”