Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas?

fleetwood
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Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas?

Unread post by fleetwood » December 19th, 2013, 8:07 pm

I have a PJ 4x4 Ranger, 5 speed auto... Today when I started her up, the dash lights indicating 4x4 & 4L remained on. (see image below) I travelled approx 30K's, stopped engine a number of times, moved around the 4x4 selector switch. All to no avail, the lights remained on.

The car is not in 4x4 mode regardless of the lights & moving the selector switch is not altering it from 2WD mode. The shift pattern has altered. Not to the same extent as it would in 4wL, but noticeably different.

Another really weird thing is that the speedo has changed. When doing about 60KMH, the speedo is showing just under 30KMH. The scan-gauge is also indicating the same & no fault codes are coming up..

We are supposed to be towing the caravan on a trip just after xmas, & I don't want to be towing with this issue..

Anybody had something similar or have any ideas?
Pergola 057.jpg
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chris_stoffa
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Re: Wierd goings on... Any ideas?

Unread post by chris_stoffa » December 19th, 2013, 8:23 pm

Up near the brake booster are two solenoids, disconnect them, see if it goes out

If does, you probably have a faulty solenoid, swap them around to find out which one and replace it ( get a couple from the wreckers, they are as common as mud )
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fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » December 19th, 2013, 9:38 pm

Hi Chris... Thanks for the reply... Have disconnected both solenoids. Both lights still remain on..

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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by chris_stoffa » December 19th, 2013, 9:41 pm

did you disconnect the air tubes as well , take the vacuum out of the lines ?
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fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » December 20th, 2013, 6:41 am

Have disconnected all tubes this morning...lights still on. Still no fault codes. No idea why this would also be effecting the actual speedo reading as well. Very strange..

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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by chris_stoffa » December 20th, 2013, 9:51 am

On your transfer case will be a couple of switches, once again, disconnect them.

Next back them out a few turns , see if that resets them , then wind them right out.

Don't know about the speedo, must be electronic to be doing what its doing.

Just a thought, try disconnecting the battery for 30mins - see if it resets the fault
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wombat4u
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by wombat4u » December 20th, 2013, 12:38 pm

Really new at this and only have owned a Ranger Pj for a month. 4wdL was staying on my vehicle. This is what I did. Reverse 10m, stop. Change switch to 4wdH. Reverse another 10m, stop. Put into 2wdH and it worked? Not sure if it was actually in 4WDL or not. Hope you are able to fix yours.

mydmax
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » December 20th, 2013, 1:49 pm

wombat4u
If you find that is necessary to do all that just have one or two pieces of pipe and drive one front wheel over the pipe/s/. the windup which is preventing disengagement will be instantly eliminated as the wheel will be able to revolve in the unwind direction is needs to go.
Save heaps of twisting and turning and clutch jumps and reversing and and and.

fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » December 20th, 2013, 8:05 pm

Hi Chris....

Disconnected two electrical connector plugs on transfer case (are these what you mean) no difference. Don't know what you mean by winding them out?

Took it to a dealer today who plugged in a lap top. No problems showing. They reckon all they can do is to run a whole bunch of tests to try and find out what the problem is... sounds expensive already.

The speedo problem must be related cause it happened at the same time. I Have looked at the schematics and the 4wd switch, speed sensor etc all seem to run to the '4wd module'. Myabe that's the problem...

Does anyone know where the heck the 4WD module is located on a PJ ranger??

Thanks for your input Wombat. Tried your suggestion.. No luck. Tearing my hair out. Dealer reckons I shouldn't tow a caravan with it at present & they can't look at the vehicle till the 9th of January, so xmas trip buggered unless I can track down the problem myself...

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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » December 20th, 2013, 8:32 pm

fleetwood
Because you have a number of seemingly unrelated symptoms but they all could be systems earthed by the same loom earth as other things.

If the current for one system can't earth directly to body/chassis/batt negative as designed, the current can flow to other items which have and earth. This can cause strange things but apart from a poor connection nothing else may be wrong.

First up, I would inspect all multiple earth tag sites ie where more than one black wire is bolted directly to the chassis/body in the one earth lug.
They may be under the dash, in kick panels or on inner guards etc. make sure the area has a clean base and the terminal is definitely earthing as intended.

Various MODULES receive voltage levels or signals from other components. If the voltages appear at it's inputs when it shouldn't, then the module will say, for example, " it's in 4WD" but it isn't.

One loose or dirty connection may be the only fault, especially if a human has been working on it and moved something.
I always ask what recent work was done and to what items. Helps narrow the focus.

fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » December 27th, 2013, 3:59 pm

Update....

After a few days of checking wire diagrams, earth points etc, I narrowed down the problem to a tiny relay under the dash (called the 4x4 relay) next to the 4x4 control module... A couple of flicks with the finger & the lights are out, gear shift pattern & speedo back to normal... Thank Christ for that. :woohoo:
Got a spare relay from the wreckers & are about to pack the van for our regular xmas getaway...

As a bit of side note... When I took it to the dealer, the lad who checked for fault codes with the laptop said he had an update for the PJ Auto gearbox that altered the shift points. Said his dad had a PJ auto & he updated his & it has been much better. Asked me if I wanted it installed, I said why not..

Now that the other problem is resolved & I'm back to the 'normal' shift pattern (which was always a bit problematic especially with kick back) I must say there is a definite improvement..

For those of you with the 5 speed auto that are experiencing some probs, it may be worth inquiring about the update..

Thanks to all for your input on this thread... :)

Cheers
Rob

wombat4u
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The dreaded 4wd l coming on

Unread post by wombat4u » December 30th, 2013, 2:52 pm

I have experienced the 4WD L light coming on a number of times. This is what happens:- I use 4wd either high range or low range. I hit the roads again and putting it in neutral and stopped I change it into 4WD high and then down the track use the same technique to change into 2WD. It all seems good at this stage. I then stop and turn the motor off. When I start the car again both times the 4WD L light comes on. I go through the exercise of putting into 4WD low and reversing, Neutral and change to 4WD H. Didn't work. It wasn't in 4WD L so I drove forward for about 100m before trying 4WD H, reversing and when that swtiched went to 2WD and it worked. But I don't want to keep going through this each time.

It is not stuck in 4WD L but it seems the indicator switch is getting confused. Does any know whether it just the the indicator light or is it actually in 4wd. Has any got any ideas how to fix this? Is it safe to drive like this?

Thanks

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Re: The dreaded 4wd l coming on

Unread post by zacsbee89 » December 30th, 2013, 3:23 pm

A friends pj used to do this thing where on the highway 4L would flash on the dash. He ended up removing the connector to the shift module and leaving it for an hour then reconnecting it and hasn't had a problem in 12 months.
Im new to this 4x4 business!

fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » December 30th, 2013, 10:04 pm

Seems like few folks are having this problem. I tracked the issue down to faulty 4x4 relay,(located under the drivers side dash). I have had the 4wdL light stay on a few times, & each time a few flicks on the relay (with ignition key in off position) has fixed it when ignition is turned back on...

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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by runsonrum » December 31st, 2013, 5:40 am

I have also had this happen with my auto bt50. Only thing i could put it down to at the time is one of the two solenoids were sticking which wasnt a surprise really as 4wd had hardly been used by the previous owner in the 83,000 km he had it.

It was a rather wierd problem, as it seemed to be physically in 2wd (only drive to rear wheels and gearing seemed normal for 2wd) however would show as being in 4l when in 2wd and would not change when switched. You would think if a solenoid was sticking it would stay in low physically. Also could not hear the solenoids clicking in and out as usual. Managed to fix it somehow by switching the ignition on and off a few times reversing back and forth and havent had the problem since touch wood. Could of been the relay previously mentioned possibly and its just a fluke that it fixed itself.

From my experiences to me it seems that the speedo somehow gets fed a modified signal by the transmission module in the auto models when low is selected to compensate for the reduction in gearing when in low range, which would explain that part of your problem. Perhaps the relay plays a part in letting the module know its in 4 low?

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