VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

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whizzo
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VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by whizzo » September 15th, 2011, 9:23 am

I have been saying in other treads that we need to presenting a reasonable argument on vehicle modification if we expect to be taken serioulsy.

So what is reasonable?

Remember we need to be able to justify our views on the basis of road safety, enginnering reality and the expectations of the general public.

What has been permitted or restricted in the past is in the past, what is reasonable mo-ving for-ward (julia) ;) .

AND this does go further than wheel sizes and lifts.

So lets start with unengineered lifts.
I think by far the most practical proposal is a 3 inch or 75mm maximum total un-engineered lift consisting of an increase in tyre diameter of up to 50mm and either or, or a combination of body or suspension lift of up to 50mm.

The tyre size being judged from the tyre manual, the body lift being measured by the size of the blocks being inserted or substituted and the suspension lift being measured at the chaisis rail ( some how).

I justify this by saying, it is not chainging the ride height a great deal, bumper off set should not be much of an issue, and all vehicles should withstand this within enginering tolerance.
And most of the general public would not regonise a vehicle lifted thus as being lifted.
And it is practical because a lift and a trye size increase are commonly done hand in hand, AND this is a popular, common and moderate combination.

Of course all the usual conditions apply, such as wheel coverage, % of suspension travel, ADR complainace and so forth.

Some states like QLD may require inspection but not engineering of a body lift..this is probably reasonable.

This sort of lift would be well within the capability of the average home mechanic and on most vehicles it would not require further modifications to make the steering or suspension behave correctly

This sort of combination I am sure is very very popular even among the conservative and would represent thousands upons thousands of vehicles.
Making people engineer lifts up to 3 inches would simply clog the system.

Seperating the tyres from the other lift, I think is a practicality...because tyres can be easily changed in a few minutes, where the other lifts can not.

Thaughts.

cheers

bigpig
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by bigpig » September 15th, 2011, 10:56 am

i recon the 2inch/ 50mm lift limit before you need an engineer was a great idea because thats all most people want anyway. same with tyres, if you want bigger than 50mm diameter then other things need upgrading too. Its only people wanting or needing something a bit more specialized, that need to go through an engineer so the work can be directed in a way that makes it safe when its finnished. i dont think there should be a limit to what an engineer can sign out, because if its safe to drive on the road, who cares what has been altered.

whizzo
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by whizzo » September 15th, 2011, 11:01 am

Yeh but VSB14 wanted to include the tyres in the 50mm of unengineered lift.

As far as what is actually safe on the road, how that is specified and measured...that is what all these regs and the arguments are about.

cheers

CUSoon
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by CUSoon » September 15th, 2011, 11:12 am

I think engineer certification of the larger lifts should still be an option, however there should be put in place a definitive guide to what is required, as well as set pricing for the certification process. This would encourage, not discourage, people to do the right thing and obtain a certification for their mods. As it stands now, each engineer has his own idea on what is right, and what price is reasonable for the inspection, and these unknowns more than likely puts people off doing the right thing.

mnpalmer
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by mnpalmer » September 15th, 2011, 1:02 pm

Personally, I think 'lift kits' should come with the engineer certificate - considering how much work 'apparently' goes into these kits (vehicle specific kits I'm talking about) - if you believe the salesmen, it wouldn't take much.
As for tyres - this responsibility should fall back to the dealer and manufacturer. Again, if they could provide ceritifcation that a larger tyre was not going to negitively impact the vehicle then what is the problem? The issue would be combining these certificates, but I would be much happier paying more for said products knowing I am still legal.

These 'un-Australian' arguments that are currently be used are pretty much useless...

bigpig
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by bigpig » September 15th, 2011, 1:16 pm

You wont get toyota to give you written aproval to put bigger tyres on unles they were going to make money from it. they would have to test the vehicles with the bigger tyres over a period of time and it would cost money, Basicaly this is what the engineer does anyway.
However your right, there would not be a problem if it was written on the tyre placard.

cac
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by cac » September 15th, 2011, 2:35 pm

Owner Certified/Not Requiring Engineering:

Lift of up to 75mm comprising any of the following:

Increase in tyre diameter of up to 50mm
Suspension lift kit of up to 50mm
Body lift kit of up to 50mm

Reasoning: It is a reasonable upgrade to your vehicle to improve its abilities on and off the road, and counteract the suspension sag resulting from it being heavily laden (within its GVM of course).

Engineers Cert Required:

Max Lift of 150mm comprising any of the following:

Suspension lift of up to 100mm, including necessary components to maintain factory suspension geometry
Body lift of up to 50mm
Increase in tyre diameter of up to 100mm
Make it a requirement to increase the track width of the vehicle to help maintain stability, and also upgrade the brakes to compensate for the larger tyres

Reasoning:With the factory suspension geometry maintained, a wider track and upgraded brakes, the lift kit will have minimal effect on the vehicle's driveability, while allowing the owner to further improve its off road ability.

MNPalmer, I agree.... if there were pre engineered kits available that comprise the most common method of achieving a 150mm lift for a range of popular vehicles, I would be all for them....and if I wished to modify my vehicle to that extent, would be happy to pay a bit extra for the peace of mind of having a 100% street legal truck....

bigpig....I agree, the manufacturers won't come to the party unless they can justify the cost.....so maybe going to the aftermarket is the answer.....
LN106 Hilux Project

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=82487

TuffTD42
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by TuffTD42 » September 15th, 2011, 5:20 pm

Each make/model of vehicle will accept different tyre sizes & suspension etc before it becomes unsafe.

It should be jugged on make/model not just blanket every vehicle with the same set of rules.

If it passes an engineers cert then why shouldn't it be on the road!

boehamian
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by boehamian » September 12th, 2018, 10:05 pm

The thing that annoys me is that ALL States/Territories need to adopt a National Standard. The problem is that when I, from the NT and allowed a 100mm combined lift without engineering, get hassled by police (QLD police now being the strictest with new laws). This is crap because my vehicle has been inspected with suspension lift and tyres to be safe. How is a vehicle safe in one State and not in another?

What also annoys me is the complexity in which the VSB 14 is written (supposed National Standard that no State follows 100%), means average Joe has no way of understanding it. There-In lies the next problem. Company's (without naming them) are coming out with massive lifts without clearly advising that this requires engineering for compliance on road, lifts that level the car, i.e. put 2 inches in the rear, 4 inches in the front. Mainly seeing them on dual cab utes to fix the rake appearance that they can have. These certifications should have to be mandatory for manufacturers of such lift. However this means that they are not going to be a viable option for most people due to the price.

I will put a small congratulations out to Ultimate Suspension who are the only company in Australia that have engineered a lift over a 50mm. Wish they made a kit for my car.

Brett Mcleod
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by Brett Mcleod » September 13th, 2018, 3:24 pm

lift laws got a mention parliament house
https://www.facebook.com/lamingeo/video ... =2&theater

Brett Mcleod
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Re: VSI50, VSB14, NOCP..what is reasonable??

Unread post by Brett Mcleod » September 13th, 2018, 9:42 pm

If you are thinking about installing a lift in QLD wait until after Oct

http://statements.qld.gov.au/Statement/ ... -lift-laws

The codes which specify lift requirements in QLD are being reviewed.

The aim of the review is to more closely align Queensland’s requirements with Australian standards (the National Code of Practice VSB-14), without disadvantaging Queensland drivers and modifiers.

The review has proposed changes in Queensland that would see:

The maximum combined lift that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 125mm to 150mm
The maximum lift by suspension alone that can be certified (using codes LS9 and LS10) increase from 50mm to 75mm.

Feedback on these proposed changes from industry has been positive and the Department of Transport and Main Roads aims to introduce them in Queensland in October this year.

If anyone needs further clarification, they can contact the Department of Transport and Main Roads on 13 23 80 or online - www.tmr.qld.gov.au/About-us/Contact-us

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