PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Shann Low
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by Shann Low » July 29th, 2015, 4:12 pm

OK also had a chat with someone from Donaldson filters today who sent me an email and pdf file of a Donaldson filters product that could work.

Its a filter head and pleated cartridge filter that removes down to 6 micron...

It will pass up to 114 liters a minute- so has a far faster flow rate than the cotton wound bypass filters!.

As a result Donaldson don't recommend running it off say a T joint from your oil pressure sender switch and passing the oil back thru a Banjoe bolt in the top of the oil filler cap for e.g. - because it will possibly drop oil flow & pressure to your engine components from the oil pump, too low!

You can however buy electronic continuous flow 'supplemental' oil pumps, where you pump the oil from the sump thru the bypass filter separate to the engines main oil pump reticulated system in order to scrub it clean.

The Donaldson recommendations are:-
a P561134 head assembly with a P564967 6um@b1000 hydraulic filter. This will handle a flow rate of up to 114lpm, however I suggest a low volume pump of under 2 – 5 lpm would be sufficient for your application.
We do not recommend drawing oil from the main supply line as this can reduce the oil flow to the engine.
It is another option when you think about it.

But it's also more cost for a 12 Volt continuous rated oil transfer pump plumbed into the system.

At least it does avoid the need to hive off say 10% of the OEM oil pressure and volume... to work the bypass filter to scrub the oil clean...

A separate and electric operated supplemental oil pump, would also be capable of operating a mechanical centrifugal oil "spinner" filter system as well!.

Maybe there's a market to leave the OEM oil system alone (i.er.no adapter plate over the OEM oil filter mount) and instead pump the oil out direct from the sump and thru a bypass sub micron filter and thru a spinner centrifugal filter and back to the sump then under gravity!.

In an ideal world - an electronic oil pump could be wired to your key on circuit and pre pressurize all journals bearings and cylinders etc BEFORE you engage the starter motor - (a pre - oiler) as well coz most wear occurs at start up while the high viscosity cold oil is still sitting in the sump and hasn't yet got to the working parts until after the engines started.

You'd think in today's modern technology age that manufacturers would pay more attention to the lubrication side of their engine products. There are so many different after market add ons, why aren't they standard fitment items?.

Dunno how to link in a emailed PDF file into this forum post.... with the Donaldson Filter head and filters.. parts details...

The filter head retails around $39.00 & the pleated cartridge filter cannister around $28.00
Part numbers T561134 & T564967 respectively.

You'd need braided oil pressure hoses and some kind of 12V continuous rated oil transfer pump as well I guess.

Shann Low
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by Shann Low » July 29th, 2015, 5:43 pm

Amsoil distributor got back to me....

Directed me towards these kits... from Mr gasket thru the summit racing web site.

http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/m ... /overview/

Which is well and good - BUT they have 13/16ths inch thread, NOT the 26mm 1.5 Pitch thread that the tritons have! :rolleyes:

Just about over this to be honest. :irked:

itsamitsi
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by itsamitsi » July 29th, 2015, 7:38 pm

Yeah I agree, I'm over it and you've done all the work :lol: I'll just stick to my 10W30 Delo LE oil and filter changes @ 5K and that will do me. However I will do some research to find out which filters have a lower micron rating ( if there is much variation in them ) to get the lowest and be done with it. Because oil @ 2500K that stains my hands ain't good..... :boggle:
Paul W

Shann Low
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by Shann Low » July 29th, 2015, 11:39 pm

Theres a 'potential' issue with pleated filters, and engines that put out a lot of carbon into the oil.

If the pleated cartridge filter blocks with excess soot - then the filter just bypasses thru the valve in it!.

So in effect if you do run a dirty engine or long oil change intervals (15000km's?) AND the filter happens to clog up - then in effect you have no filter!.

Different filters, filter down to different levels - the finer they filter the more they can block up...

As you can see with my old triton used oil analysis result - the soot can be bad enough to increase the viscosity of the oil... you don't want thick oil and a blocked filter... in an ideal world you want the course OEM pleated filter, and a sub micron bypass.

Dunno how you do this... other than leave the OEM system alone and just hive off a small amount thru a "t" joint off the oil pressure sender switch, with reduced internal diameter to only allow 10% of the oil volume to bypass.. run it thru your bypass filter of choice and back into the top of the rocker cover thru a banjoe bolt in the oil filler cap!

Cheap simple and will probably work well enough.

itsamitsi
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by itsamitsi » February 8th, 2016, 8:53 pm

Just a quick update, have been running Gulf Western 10W/40 semi synth in it with Baldwin filters, EGR resistor mod and catch can now at 20K and it still blackens my hands. It looks like this is just how it is so end of story for this one.
Paul W

Shann Low
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Re: PC oil colour - should it be this black?!

Unread post by Shann Low » February 9th, 2016, 3:51 am

Really the answer is to do used oil analysis on your dumped oil - so that you can put numbers to the issue (quantify it).
Increased soot levels can increase your oils viscosity for e.g. which you may not want.

There's 2 reasons I went to sub micron filtering on the F 250 7.3 liter Navistar (International Harvester) T 444 E engine.

1. Coz after market bypass filtering kits were readily available to order online being a US manufactured truck!.

2. These engines have 2 separate oil pumps:-

A ) The normal displacement engine oil pump:-

Image
that puts out around 120 psi & lubricates the usual bearings etc.

&

B ) The HPOP (High Pressure Oil Pump)

Image

That takes the normal ~120 psi oil and increases the pressure to ~ 2000 PSI and supplies it to the HEUI (Hydraulic Electric Unit Injectors).

Its a swash-buckle / syringe type pump as you can see depicted with 8 separate metal bodied syringes that put the oil under almost 20 times the "normal engine pressure"!.

This 2000PSI Oil at the HEUI injector then further compresses the diesel fuel to almost ~20,000 PSI to atomize it for combustion when the electronically computer controlled injector "fires" based on when the engine computer fed info from magnetic crank angle sensor tells it too!.

Anyone who's run plant that uses hydraulic oil, will tell you that keeping the high pressure hydraulic oil "scrupulously clean" is critical to avoiding premature wear. Contaminates in hydraulic oil at high pressure act like a cutting paste on metal and other components!

Well the HPOP oil system feeding the HEUI injectors with oil at ~2000 PSI is using oil from the sump, with soot suspended in it, awaiting removal at each oil change interval.

The idea of large conglomerate particulates of soot getting fed thru my HPOP to the injectors horrify me.. because of the risk of premature wear to the HEUI injectors, there's 8 of them and they each are around $1200.00 to replace (So almost $10K).

I figured the few hundred $$ for the after market cotton wound sub micron oil filter canister and filters from BD diesel power was "cheap insurance".

I don't know whether the new common rail electric injector diesels common in the Jap imports (like Triton) use similar "dirty sump oil @ hydraulic oil pressures" to pressurize their diesel fuel at the electric injectors, but I imagine so.

That being the case I wouldn't be happy with dirty black engine oil on a new engine at all.

But that's just my 2C

I do know of one Triton engine that blew up at only 39,000 km's under warranty and the local dealer won't honor the warranty, but each time I post photos and details it gets deleted... so what can you do. :confused:

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