What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 2nd, 2015, 9:11 am

Hey Ron,

The ride is a fair bit better than with the OME's I reckon. They seem to be a fair bit firmer although I haven't done much driving on them yet. First impressions are good though.
Cheers,

Nathan

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 12th, 2015, 9:17 pm

Got stuck into replacing the valve stem seals on my Challenger today, along with Rocker Cover Gaskets, Plug seals and Spark Plugs. I am doing them with the heads still on the vehicle. You can do this using a compressed air source to hold the valves shut or feeding some 6mm rope into the spark plug hole and turning the engine by hand to push the rope against the valves to hold them up.

Turns out Mitsubishi only supplied me with 12 valve stem seals as opposed to the 24 needed to complete the job (my fault, didn't check) so I'm waiting for the other 12 to turn up on Tuesday, so they tell me. So today I got cracking on the passenger side head, the hardest of the two due to access limitations.

The actual changing of the seals is easy enough, it's just the amount of crap you have to remove to get to them that makes the job a pain. Not hard, just time consuming. And not cheap if you use genuine parts like I have. I have had a few issues with aftermarket parts in the past so nowadays I just play it safe. The old seals were rock hard and very worn, they were far from a snug fit around the valve stems. Explains the increased oil consumption of late and the odd puff of blue smoke after idling for a while.
The hardest part of the job thus far has been digging the old Rocker Cover gasket out of the recess in the Rocker Cover. I had to heat it up with the Oxy on low heat to break the seal and remove it! It was as hard as a rock and stuck in there.
The whole job was also made slightly more challenging because my bus is bodylifted aswell as a suspension lift. So the height required to lean in to the bay just makes it slightly awkward. The engine sits 50mm lower in the bay due to the bodylift than it would have as standard which makes it a touch harder to get a direct access to the exhaust valves. The passenger side is the worst as the starter battery blocks access a bit aswell as my auxiliary battery which is mounted just behind it on a custom tray. I removed both batteries after trying my hardest to do it with leaving them in, not gonna happen.

Passenger side is all back together now, just waiting on the other 12 seals to turn up and I'll finish it off. I'll grab some pics of the seals in place when I do the drivers side.

Here's a couple of pics of the bare head with the valves/valve springs and the rocker gear that has to be removed to access the valves. The white rags you see in the recesses of the heads are blocking the oil drains back to the sump, just in case I dropped a collet or lash adjuster it would prevent it getting lost inside the engine.
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Cheers,

Nathan

craigus2703
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by craigus2703 » April 13th, 2015, 9:58 am

Awesome work mate and good pics. Looks pretty clean in there. I take my hat off to you for knuckling it and getting them done. Such an absolute nuisance doing those things.

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 14th, 2015, 7:53 pm

Yeah Craig it is a nuisance job but only because of the time required. With a decent toolkit and the correct valve spring removal tool it is a pretty easy job. One of those jobs that you do as much as possible while you're in there seeing as you have to remove so much to just get to them. It seems pretty clean inside and all cam lobes/rockers seem to be in good nick with no abnormal wear or marks so happy days so far. Dropping the coolant aswell while I'm doing this so it's another scheduled job off the list.

Next is a trans service then she's right for a little while.
Cheers,

Nathan

ollieschallenge
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by ollieschallenge » April 15th, 2015, 8:39 am

Timmo wrote:
Next is a trans service then she's right for a little while.
That's great, so when your finished can I bring mine down for a bit of TLC :frog:
Regards
Rich

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 15th, 2015, 7:31 pm

Sounds great mate, there's nothing I love more than working on cars.......................and sarcasm. :D

Here's a few more pics for those that may be interested in what's involved in valve stem seal replacement.

Here is a pic of a valve with spring and retainer removed. Old stem seal still in place.
IMAG0312.jpg
A pic of the valve with stem seal removed. You can see the top of the valve guide protruding through the head around the valve. This is what the stem seal is seated over.
IMAG0314.jpg
Old and new stem seals side by side. You can see the major difference in size where they seal around the valve. A good 1.5mm difference and the old ones had zero elasticity left. The spring around the top of the seal keeps it tight around the valve stem.
IMAG0313.jpg
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Cheers,

Nathan

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 15th, 2015, 7:45 pm

Valve spring, new seal and retainer with collets fitted ready to be reinstalled.
IMAG0311.jpg
Valve stem with new seal fitted.
IMAG0315.jpg
Rocker gear. Inlet rockers and shaft at top of pic, exhaust rockers and shaft at the bottom. You can see the ends with the rollers, these remain in contact with, and follow the lobes on the cam. The ends with the small hydraulic lash adjusters act on the top of the valve stem, pushing it down and opening the valves when moved by the cam. The hydraulic lash adjusters are pressure fed with engine oil and take up slack between the rocker and the valve tip to eliminate noise/freeplay in the valvetrain.
IMAG0316.jpg
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Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Sam Pato » April 16th, 2015, 9:41 am

Our Magna has started guzzling oil at an alarming rate and I'm reasonably certain its the valve seals. If I can get away without pulling the heads off I'd be a happy chap.

Can you help me with a couple of things?

What sort of valve spring compressor are you using?

I'm assuming you've used compressed air via the spark plug to keep the valves up? - what sort of connector have you got?



Cheers

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 16th, 2015, 5:12 pm

Hey Sam,

Here are some pics of the tool and air line.

I am using a Lisle Magnetic Valve Keeper Removal Tool. I bought the kit that comes with 2x different sized tools and have found that the smaller one works the best for the size of valves in the 6G72 V6.

This is the smaller of the two. This is how it looks when you use it to reinstall the valve springs;
IMAG0317.jpg
This is the tool with the insert removed. This is how you use it to remove the collets and retainer;
IMAG0318.jpg
http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/prod ... roduct=203

The 2x piece kit ranges anywhere in price from $70.00USD to $250USD depending on where you look. Mine cost me $130AUS landed at my front door from the US of A.

Here's a YouTube clip of a bloke giving it a crack. Although he's cheating by doing it with the head off the car!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DmJQ4Fods

It is so much easier and quicker than using a conventional spring compressor. The plug tubes in the head would make it a real tight squeeze to fit a spring compressor in there anyway. It would have to be tiny.

Here is a pic of the attachment for the air supply;
IMAG0319.jpg
I used it on the first cylinder I did and it was a right pain in the anus to screw it in to the plug thread due to how far recessed the plugs are in the 6G72 head. For the second cylinder I just couldn't get it started as it wanted to just curl up and wouldn't go in straight, I ditched it back in the toolbox and used the rope method.........far easier in my opinion.

Here is a link to the product if you want it though. It would be very good on heads where the plugs are out in the open and easy to access;

http://www.lislecorp.com/divisions/products/?product=70

If I were to use an air source again, I would get an old spark plug and gut it for the thread and hex. Weld a 200mm long piece of 3/8 tube to it and connect the air source to that. At least you would be able to screw it in straight and also be able to tighten it as necessary. With the hose, it's hand tight only as any force just causes the hose to twist up as you don't have access to tighten it via the hex at the fitting end.

Hope this helps mate.
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Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Sam Pato » April 17th, 2015, 12:04 pm

Timmo,

Cheers for the description - much appreciated. Compared to the $1k for getting the heads off and refurbished this looks like a real possibility. Just need to order up some spare time and motivation and I'll be set. :lol:

Thanks again

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Joined: November 14th, 2010, 10:45 am

Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 17th, 2015, 2:08 pm

Time is the key Sam, time and patience.

Just finished putting mine back together and fired her up...........no more smoke!
Mission accomplished. Also replaced the PCV valve as it was stuck and clogged up.
Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Location: Brisbane

Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Sam Pato » April 17th, 2015, 5:01 pm

Must be pleasing to have it going again.

Do you mind me asking how much the seals cost you?

Also - about how many kms does your engine have on it?

Do you think the deterioration of the seals is more age than mileage related?

Cheers

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Joined: November 14th, 2010, 10:45 am

Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 17th, 2015, 7:41 pm

Yeah mate, good to have her back up and running.

Cost of seals...........are you sitting down?

Genuine are $19.................each.

............and there is 24 of them.

You can get aftermarket seals for less than $100 a set but as I've mentioned in the past, I've had some bad experiences with aftermarket parts so I bought genuine. Rocker cover gaskets were around $45 a side and plug seals approximately $20 each aswell. So as you can see, a small fortune was spent on genuine seals. PCV valve was around $20 from Repco, not so fussed with this as it is easily changed in minutes if need be.

Mine is just shy of 180,000km. The seals go hard and brittle which is more age/heat related. High mileage just accelerates the wear process.
Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Sam Pato » April 30th, 2015, 3:27 pm

Hows the rocker cover going? Keeping the oil in???

Just ordered a full set of genuine seals of Amayama for $128- delivered. Cover gaskets and tube seals for $93-.

I'll always try and support local suppliers but not at over double the price.

Just got wait and see if the right ones show up now :-)

Cheers


Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Joined: November 14th, 2010, 10:45 am

Re: What did YOU do to your Challenger today?

Unread post by Timmo » April 30th, 2015, 6:12 pm

Yeah Sam, local genuine parts are a rip off. You really only pay for the convenience of being able to drive around the corner to pick them up (or take them back if need be).

Rocker covers are all good mate, bone dry as expected. No more smoke or oil consumption from the stem seals either. Oil level is holding steady.
Cheers,

Nathan

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