Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

vxtreem
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by vxtreem » August 11th, 2014, 11:15 pm

It sounds like you may have a sticky actuator.
I posted in another thread a bit of a how it works with some pics.
viewtopic.php?f=98&t=147912
You should get underneath and pull the boot back and whilst the vehicle is running get someone to shift back and forth from 2wd to 4wd.
Mind the exhaust nearby.
You may get away with a bit of grease on the pin.
Check vac lines all the way back to the inlet manifold for kinks or splits.
If not it may be sticky solenoids.
What you do to fix is up to you.
1 replace solenoids $50 imported or a misty dealer $sitdown
2 change to freewheeling hubs $300

Sam Pato
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 3rd, 2015, 9:07 am

I'm just waiting for my freewheeling hubs to arrive and I've been thinking about the next issue (in truth I'm mainly wondering how may bolts will shear off during the next part of putting it all together - but that's another story) which is getting rid of the flashing green light once I'm in front diff permanently engaged mode.

Reading the previous posts the solution I like best is Ron's idea to set up a relay on the solenoid power and then wire this into the front diff switch. If I'm right this should need about 6 electircal connectors and take about 15 minutes to sort out (assuming all parts are to hand).

My question is in relation to the relay;

As far as I am aware the 4wd side (the front diff sensor) is just an open closed switch but do I need to have a specific resistance?

On the power side - I've no idea what the amps are going through to the solenoid. Do I need a certain rated relay so that it'll switch but not burn out? Also would it be a good idea to put an in line fuse in the circuit just in case something goes off with the relay and causes a drama somewhere else in the system?

My auto electrics extends to the occasional cleaning of a contact or changing a bulb so any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers


Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » February 3rd, 2015, 10:24 am

Just use a normal run-of-the-mill relay from your local auto shop Sam, it'll do the trick. The switch should be as close as possible to zero ohms resistance, it isn't anything fancy involved. The factory wiring to the solenoids is up to the task of supplying the relay with no drama. Both the relay and the factory solenoid are just a coil and consume bugger all power.

Installation of a relay is only really beneficial/necessary if you have ABS as it requires a signal when 4wd is engaged. If you don't have ABS, all it does is allow you to keep your little green dash light in play to let you know you're in 4wd. The position of the transfer stick also tells you this (and is far more reliable). Installing such a relay does however introduce another possible point of electrical failure.
Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 3rd, 2015, 11:31 am

Nathan,

Thanks for the advice.

I'm reasonably certain that I don't have ABS - so I agree that it's not a necessity but I do like the feeling of reassurance I get from my little green light going on and off. So for the extra $10- I think I'll give it a go :-)

Besides this is my first venture into installing a relay so I'm pumped now!

Cheers


Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Duke1340
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Duke1340 » February 3rd, 2015, 4:34 pm

Hi Nathan,

Would I be correct in assuming that this fix would work the same on my 1999 MK Triton.

Cheers
Rod (Duke)
"Adventure Before Dementia"

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » February 3rd, 2015, 5:16 pm

Yeah Rod, same same. Challenger/MK Triton share the same 4wd system.

Sam, it's a pretty straightforward thing for you to cut your teeth on mate. Mount the relay up near the solenoids and have the 2x wires from the solenoids power the coil on the relay (pins 85 & 86 on the relay, 85 being ground and 86 being 12V+). Run some 3mm twin core sheathed cable down to the plug that plugs into the diff switch and encase it in some split conduit for protection. Connect each wire to one of the pins on the plug. At the relay, connect the other end of the twin core cable to pins 30 & 87 which will be Normally Open, closed circuit when 12V applied. Done.
Cheers,

Nathan

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 4th, 2015, 8:45 am

Cheers for the heads up Nathan.

The way you described it was pretty much what I had in mind with the exception that I'm going to cut the wire to the sensor at the diff and then connect that to the relay - so I have some sheathed wire and the right connector already to go.

I ordered a job lot of cheapo relays with connectors included yesterday. I figured I'd like a proper connector so I can just attach wires to rather than a heap of amateur looking spade connectors. Also I went 5 pin as I couldn't remember if it was normally on or normally off and with a 5 pin I've got both options.

$92- AISIN Copy Hubs arrived this morning - 2 year warranty as long as you don't have a diff lock.

Off to Bunning's performance tonight to try and find a metal bracket and the end off a walking stick.

Will post it up when I get it all together - I can already see getting the little bolt through the actuator is going to be a shocker.

WRT to fitting the hubs - I've read about people greasing them before installation - is that just the parts you can get to when you're fitting them or do I need to pull them apart?

Cheers

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » February 4th, 2015, 10:13 am

You need to pull the hubs apart to fit them anyway Sam. Just 6x small bolts to split them open. Grease all moving parts while you have them split for assembly.
Cheers,

Nathan

Sam Pato
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 5th, 2015, 10:28 am

I was have a look at this last night and decided to pull apart the actuator.

Its quite a simple operation with a big spring pushing it back into the 4wd engaged position.

I decided that rather than making a bracket I'd just use this to hold the push rod in place - mainly because I wanted to keep the rubber boot on the push rod to stop any crap getting in there. Its held in place (engaged position) with a big spring but I packed it with washers and silicon-ed the tubes as well so it cannot go back to the disengaged position. I think I'll run with this rather than fiddling with the bracket. TBH I reckon you could just pull off the hoses and get the same result as engaged is the default position but I packed it because I had it apart anyway.

Cheers

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Sam Pato
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 5th, 2015, 12:42 pm

A couple of snaps of the inside of the actuator and also my pattern solenoid for anyone who is interested.

Cheers

Sam
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1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » February 5th, 2015, 1:35 pm

That'll do it Sam.

You could just pull the hoses off and be done with it as it will default to engaged. Not in my situation though as the actuator was seized solid. Was easier for me to cut off the rod and weld it to a bracket I made.

With a working/free actuator though, no problems.
Cheers,

Nathan

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 5th, 2015, 4:26 pm

Mine was seized as well - about half way between in and out. Took quite a bit of encouragement to get it moving and it was still pretty rough due to all the rust. Once I'd got it apart I reckon I probably could have got it working again with some lube / emery paper and a bit of silicon sealant - but I'd be back in there in 6 months and I can't be arsed with that again.

As it was the push rod was about half way between in and out which can't be good.

It had clearly been a problem for a previous owner as the boot was off when I first looked at it years ago - and I'm assuming this is what allowed the water in and is where all the rusting came from.

Cheers

Sam
1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Sam Pato
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Sam Pato » February 9th, 2015, 8:30 pm

Finally got this put back together tonight after my relay arrived in the post today.

The hubs were pretty straightforward with the exception of getting the circlips on which was a PITA and on the drivers side I had to ditch one of the super-thin shims to get the circlip back on.

I cut the centre out of the centre caps and when cut to the edge of the groove they fit perfectly - which was a pleasant surprise.

To keep my 4wd light in play I did the following;

I kept the working solenoid attached and connected both of the vacuum pipes from the accumulator to the same solenoid.
I pulled off and discarded all of the downstream pipes from the solenoids.
I cut the wires from the connector to the non working solenoid and added about 30cm of wire to each and fed them up to the area between the bulkhead and the airbox.
I cut the wires to the switch on the front diff and fed them up to the same area behind the airbox.
I attached the two power wires to the power side of the relay and the switch wires went to the 30 and 87a terminals of the relay ( I used a 5 pin relay and I'm not sure if these terminals will be the same in all cases - might be 30 and 87 for some relays - beyond my knowledge).
And hey presto - I have a nice green light when 4wd is engaged on the lever.


Cheers

Sam
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1999 Challenger, with Dual airbags and LSD
Mods: Does a roof rack count?

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » February 9th, 2015, 8:47 pm

Well done Sam, another option for those with the same issue and a solution for those with ABS.
Cheers,

Nathan

Duke1340
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Duke1340 » February 10th, 2015, 5:59 am

Timmo,

Printed off your original information from the start of this post and got stuck into the Triton on Sunday.

Fairly straight forward job when you have detailed instructions to follow, the Triton is back to being a 4x4 again (something it hasn't been for the last couple of months).

So thanks Timmo and everyone else for your input, we will heading bush this weekend to test her out.

Cheers
Rod (Duke)
"Adventure Before Dementia"

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