Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Preems
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Preems » July 12th, 2013, 4:20 pm

Quick question, when I put mine in 4wd (high or low) the light doesn't come on at all and doesn't feel like it's in 4wd. Twice since this problem I've started up the car in 2wd and the light has flashed for a while.

My question is, would fitting manual hubs 'end' my problems?
I called up a 4x4 workshop and they reckon the conversion won't do anything.

Chris

Timmo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » July 12th, 2013, 5:51 pm

Chris, it all depends on whether your problem is a dud sensor or, like mine, where the front diff actuator is stuffed. Mine was seized in the disengaged position and leaking vacuum.

You need to check whether or not your diff actuator is actually working, disengaging and engaging when you move the transfer shifter. If it is, then you are in 4wd and the issue is most likely a faulty/sticking sensor. If the actuator is not working, 4wd may not be engaging/disengaging and it could be a stuffed vacuum solenoid or two, the actuator itself could be buggered, a possible vacuum leak etc etc. The default position for the actuator is meant to be in the engaged position, sending drive to the wheels as a failsafe in case of vacuum system failure (so others have mentioned on here). This is providing yours isn't seized like mine was.

Manual hubs on their own won't "fix" any problem, they are just fitted as part of the process when permanently engaging the front diff. Manual hubs just compensate for the front diff being permanently engaged by allowing you to unlock the hubs and have the front wheels free-wheeling separate from the rest of the driveline.

Just because a 4wd workshop says it won't work doesn't mean a thing.......it just means they have never done it before, are unfamiliar with the vehicle or just not interested (or a combination of all the above). Plenty on here have done the conversion (or similar) with no ill effects. Mine has been working solid for a good couple of years now.
Cheers,

Nathan

Preems
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Preems » July 12th, 2013, 6:34 pm

Thanks Nathan, I've been under the car and got someone to move the transfer lever, I couldn't see the actuator move, we then drove onto some wet grass, engaged 4wd and floored it to spin the wheels and only got the rears to spin.

I've got a feeling not being familiar with the car might be correct, as the guy originally said he'll have to suss it out before someone in the background yelled out it won't work.

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » July 12th, 2013, 7:00 pm

Was the car running when you were under it? It needs to be as the system requires a vacuum source to operate.

There can be a heap of reasons why the system won't activate but the vacuum side of things seems to be the first point of failure so I would be checking it out first prior to checking out the electrical sensors/switches on the transfer.

If you are certain that it isn't engaging 4wd then I would start by going over all of the vacuum lines from the actuator-solenoids-vacuum tank-inlet manifold to make sure they are all connected and/or not blocked, even though the default position for the actuator is engaged. Check that the port on the inlet manifold is not blocked (it is the small 3mm-ish vacuum port on the passenger side rising up off the manifold toward the rear). If all checks out o.k, swap the lines between the two solenoids and see if it makes a difference to the position of the actuator when idle and when shifting between 2wd/4wd. This will help determine if 1 or both of your solenoids are dodgy. If it changes then you know one of them is crook. If not, it may mean that both are stuffed or that your actuator has failed. You can test your actuator by applying a direct known source of vacuum to either side of the diaphragm, bypassing all of the solenoids (you can also do it using compressed air, it will just behave opposite to normal being a positive pressure source if you get my drift?). If it moves in/out (without leaks) with a source applied to either side then it would appear to be o.k.

If all that still doesn't change anything then it may be a seized actuator like I had with mine which seems highly possible as if the default position on a working actuator is engaged, you should be in 4wd if the system has failed. It could also be a dud sensor on the transfer case not indicating when the shifter is moved and failing to send voltage to activate the solenoids. Check the connectors at the solenoids to make sure they are receiving/dropping voltage when the shifter is moved 2wd-4wd and vice versa. If nothing there, then you are chasing an electrical fault with a transfer case sensor or the 4wd ECU that controls it all. That is where my experience stops as I did not waste my time chasing anything that far as I didn't need to. I just ripped it all out and simplified the whole operation.

.........or just do what some I have already done and disable all the vacuum crap, lock the front diff in the engaged position, fit manual hubs and be done with it once and for all. ;)
Cheers,

Nathan

Preems
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Preems » July 12th, 2013, 7:56 pm

Cheers again Nathan. Yeah had the car running when we tested it, checked the vacuum lines, swapped hoses over, took the solenoids out and put power to them and got them clicking. I took the actuator out, found it to be stiff at first but once I freed the rod up a bit, I pushed the rod down, blocked off both outlets and it stayed in place until I opened the outlets. Still no joy.

I don't really want to go down the path of checking the transfer switches as they seem like a bit of a prick to get to, so I was going to put the hubs on, until I spoke to the 4x4 workshop today.

But if fitting them simplifies the system AND let's me engage four wheel drive again, then that's what I'll do.

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » July 12th, 2013, 8:08 pm

Are the plugs on the loom to the solenoids getting power applied when the transfer is shifted?

Sounds like the actuator was stuck in the disengaged position which you've since got moving again, which explains why it may not have been in it's default position however, I would say that it is more than likely you aren't getting power to the solenoids which is only going to be because of the transfer switches/sensors. And yes, they would be a bitch to get to.

Chuck a set of hubs on and lock the front diff actuator, it won't give you any more trouble. The only difference will be having to get out and lock the hubs in before going for a wheeling session, which aint a bad thing in my books. All real 4bys should have manual hubs in my opinion. :thumb:
Cheers,

Nathan

Preems
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Preems » August 30th, 2013, 8:56 am

Well, I finally did this mod last weekend, I ended making up a bracket like Wixxer's. The light now flashes continuously, doesn't bother me though, I'll take the globe out one day.

Just happy to have a working 4x4 again.

cheers again for help Nathan.

Rosgo
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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Rosgo » December 21st, 2013, 1:00 pm

Hi guys I'm doing the free wheel mod as well only due to the car getting on in age and I'm not to big on electrical's or motorized parts controlling drive train... especially when in the worst positions. So I've pretty done the same thing as you have done except instead of a bracket I just used a pipe clamp to hold it out, I'm the process of finishing it off now but I'm just checking the pin has to be pulling out of the diff is this correct and not being pushed in? I'm only asking this as the actuator on my PA 98 challenger has a spring on it already holding it out....

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » December 21st, 2013, 3:31 pm

Out is engaging the diff, in is disengaging.

You want it permanently fixed in the out position mate.
Cheers,

Nathan

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by oz951 » January 9th, 2014, 9:42 am

I've been reading through this thread and making a few notes. People have commented that the diff actuator defaults to the out position and is spring loaded to that state to give 4WD in the event of component failure. I can see why a vacuum solenoid is used to drive the diff actuator to the 'Inserted' position to disengage the diff for 2WD operation. My question is what does the other vacuum solenoid do? I wouldn't have thought a second vacuum solenoid was necessary to achieve 4WD mode by moving the actuator to the out position if the actuator is spring loaded to the 'pin withdrawn / 4WD state' in the absence of a vacuum signal for 2WD mode ?

My 4WD light is usually flashing, but when we went camping last month we did a few tracks in 4WD Hi for a while and after we got home the 4WD light remained off for a week or two or normal city driving. So this is one of the jobs to sort on my 'to do' list.
98 PA Challenger 3.0, enlarged throttle, LSD, Aux trans cooler, Tekonsha P3 brake controller, Maxxis A/T 700s, Tough Dog foam cell dampers & Leaf Springs.

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by 2001Challenger69 » June 17th, 2014, 2:23 pm

Mate will this setup go on a 2001 challenger, I asked ARB for a price on the price on a set of AVM hubs for the 2000 pajero (gen 2) for my challenger, the bloke said r u sure there are no returns and they are splined hubs or something along those lines and it wont fit the challenger???

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by 2001Challenger69 » June 17th, 2014, 3:10 pm

Timmo
Mate I'm a newbee to 4wd and I want this setup on my 2001 challenger, I have a loud clunking noise when I drive and it sounds like gears are trying to engage, the mechanic took off a vacuum hose and told me to try it now, I've been driving it for a week and I can't get it to make that sound I was hearing every time I drove it before. After reading around I came across this post and it sounds like a cheaper alternative to my problem, this vacuum problem can be expensive to both diagnose and fix...

So I went away I got a price of $275 from local ARB for Gen 2 pajero AVM Heavy Duty Hubs. However, the bloke reckons there will be a lot of play in the splined section of the hub. I am not sure what he is talking about, but he was being very negative towards my enquiry when he heard it was for my challenger...

Q1. will the 2000 (Gen 2) Pajero AVM Heavy Duty Hubs fit my 2001 challenger
Q2. Is there any play in the splined section of the hub
Q3. Is the Hub changing simple and could I do it, the fabrication and vacuum part of the procedure I am fine with

thanks

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Re: Permanent Fix For Flashing "4wd Light".

Unread post by Timmo » June 17th, 2014, 3:22 pm

There will be no more play in them on your challenger than there would be if they were fitted to a pajero. They share the same pcd, shaft diameter and spline count. Many here have done it before if it's any consolation. You can also use factory mk triton hubs if you can find some as again, they too are the same. Early pajero, challenger, mk triton and delica all share the same hubs.

Sounds like old mate just hadn't heard of them being used on a challenger and trying to cover his arse somewhat. Just because someone hasn't heard of it being done, doesn't mean it can't be done.

Simple job to do, you don't even need to jack it up or take a wheel off. Half an hour per side should be all it will take you.
Cheers,

Nathan

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Flashing 4WD light and Anti-Lock light on? 2004 PA

Unread post by lilacblues » August 8th, 2014, 9:51 am

Hi - I have an 04 Auto

Went 4x4ing a few weeks back and every now and again the Anti Lock light would come on, and the car would lock up and then turn off - half way up a dune. I could handle this, but when I got back onto the road and got it back into 2WD, the Transfer light kept blinking (and has done ever since) it only ever goes to a solid light when it's back in 4WD, but never turns off. The Anti-Lock light comes on about 15-20 minutes of normal driving on the road, and doesn't turn off until the car is off.

Have read a few things online - one forum suggested a solenoid sensor replacement job ($50 each x 2) and another suggested just replacing the auto hubs for manual locking ones (but that seems like too much effort).'


Any suggestions as to what it could be and how to fix it?

Cheers :)
Bits-A-Missing

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Re: Flashing 4WD light and Anti-Lock light on? 2004 PA

Unread post by Ron04 » August 8th, 2014, 4:08 pm

Welcome to the forum

Everything you will ever need to know about the dreaded flashing 4wd light is in this thread. If 4wd has not been used for some time, it could be as simple as the actuator being a bit sticky, try moving in and out of 4wd a few times and see if it clears. If not, you have 2 options

1. Diagnose which switch(s), sensor(s), solenoid(s), vacuum line(s), actuator etc are faulty and repair; or
2. Mechanically lock the front drive actuator and fit free wheeling hubs

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