ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Outdoor_Steve
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ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Outdoor_Steve » June 8th, 2013, 4:11 pm

A real brain teaser for any ZD30 experts.

About six months ago the engine started to just stop occasionally (2003 model, 220K kms). It usually happened after a few short trips and about 50-200m from the last stop it would just die! Sometimes it would start again, other times you had to leave it for 10-15mins and it would go again. Didn’t stop every trip out only some!!

It has a chip and exhaust from Roo Systems, so thought it might be a chip issue. They kindly ran it on the dyno for $200+ and told me they thought the injector pump was the problem and for $5K it should fix it. Decided to take it to Nissan where for another $300 they ran a full diagnostics, inspected the fuel system and injection pump and couldn’t find any problem (no codes had previously been set apparently) and said there was nothing wrong with the injection pump. Kept driving it with random stops still occurring.

It then didn’t stop at random anymore, but the engine warning light would come on occasionally. Pull over, turn off ignition and start again and the light would go off for a while. Car still ran fine. Read about connector and earth issues, so removed all connectors and cleaned them and removed and cleaned earth points. Good news, the engine warning light issue went away, but the engine went back to just stopping at random again!!!

The fuel filter has been drained or changed numerous times, all fuel lines checked for signs of a leak (or where air could get in), connectors checked and cleaned, ran without chip connected (made no difference), cursed at it, kicked it, cleaned airflow sensor etc.

I know it’s going to cost some money, but I would like have an idea of what could be wrong before I continue to spend money for people to fault find with no idea of what it could be or what it could cost me!!!

Any ideas really appreciated. Cheers

bigpig
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by bigpig » June 9th, 2013, 12:01 am

Mate, when the engine warning light comes on, the computer is trying to tell you it has recorded a fault, it will keep the fault in the memory for a while but if you turn the car off and then back on it will just stop the indicator from telling the driver. If you ignore it and do your own thing then it cant really help you. After an amount of starts those older codes will probably be erased and you will have to wait till it does it again. It may not be able to tell you exactly the problem but it will get you aimed in the right direction. It sounds like that connector needs spreading/ bending pins to make better contact.

Outdoor_Steve
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Outdoor_Steve » June 9th, 2013, 5:16 pm

Mate, are the codes able to be read by anyone other than Nissan? I'm on the Nth side of Brissy and would be happy to go to a reasonable mechanic or diesel workshop. As for the connectors they all seem fine. Cheers

bigpig
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by bigpig » June 9th, 2013, 7:51 pm

Sorry mate cant help there. Im sure most mechanics would be able to read the codes.

Aussie_Dan
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Aussie_Dan » June 9th, 2013, 8:38 pm

Okay, here's my disclaimer: I don't own a ZD30 Patrol and know next to nothing about them....
However, the ZD30 Patrol does use a Bosch / Zexel injector pump that is very similar to the Pre-common rail DiD Pajero.
I have read of a couple of Pajero owners having problems similar to yours, with random stalling when the engine is at normal running temp and perhaps even more-so when the engine has been working hard and getting a bit sweaty under the collar. The problem in these cases has been the engine 'speed sensors' which are mounted just forward of the injector pump and are there to feed the ECU crank position information. It seems that when these sensors start to fail on the Pajero, the tacho will drop to zero, the engine will stall and more often than not, no fault codes will be logged in the ECU. The engine will reportedly restart fine and behave itself after being left to cool for a little while.
Is your Patrol only stopping whilst the engine is at full operating temp, or working hard and getting a bit warm?
Like I said, this may be of no relevance at all but it is worth a look, to investigate if your Patrol does have any speed / crank sensors that are external to the injector pump. If you are lucky, it may be something relatively simple like this causing your problem. I hope for your sake its not the pump itself, they are never cheap no matter what the vehicle!
Good luck. Dan.

mydmax
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by mydmax » June 9th, 2013, 9:31 pm

Outdoor_Steve
I think Aussie_Dan is on a likely suspect. If it only happens when hot and not immediately after starting from cold it would indicate electronics malfunction.

Although a petrol engine, the distributor in Skylines would overheat and the cylinder firing sequence ie crank angle sensor would fail and engine would backfire or stop, After leaving it cool it would start again to repeat the performance later as it heated. A cooling pipe from the front directed onto the unit kept it cool and prevented it failing again.

You could try a vacuum cleaner pipe cable tied to bits and pieces so it feeds coolair to the sensor Aussie_Dan suggested. If it behaves then you know what it is and it will cost you nothing to find out.

Then you can buy one and change it.

mydmax

CrankHead
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by CrankHead » June 9th, 2013, 10:11 pm

I have a GU Patrol and I use this bluetooth adapterhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Auto-Mini-V1 ... 53f7a96bbc with my android phone and it displays the whole engine codes as as well as realtime parameters. I use a software called Torque on the android to show the ECU status, codes etc.

The adapter plugs into the OBD2 port on the patrol.
If u have an iphone then get the wifi adapter.

Lemme know if u have any questions.

Outdoor_Steve
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Outdoor_Steve » June 10th, 2013, 12:14 pm

Dan, the problem never occurs with the first start of the day (which means I can start the car, drive 100 k's to a mates place for lunch and then drive home later in the day with no problems!!). Problem mainly happens when the missus is out doing shopping with a number of short trips, so it isn't under heavy load. Will look to try and spray some liquid around the sensor next time it happens.
Mydmax, agree trying to cool the sensor is worth a shot, but due to the location and all the guards around the sensor, it will be a real challenge to direct airflow there. Hence the liquid spray option.

Crankhead, what a great little piece of kit thanks for the link. Ordered one to try and get an idea of what's happening.

Appreciate the help guys, will keep you up to date as the sage unfolds. Cheers, Steve

mydmax
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by mydmax » June 10th, 2013, 12:32 pm

Outdoor_Steve
If you get some NUT freeze spray from bearing services it might be able to be sprayed on the sensor area so it cools and possibly restarts, just a way of pin pointing the problem.
Maybe it is a HEAT SOAK problem in the sensor.

I do agree, the missus shopping is a problem and we should put a stop to that. Therefore problem solved.

cmar
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by cmar » June 13th, 2013, 7:56 pm

Had it been a petrol engine I would have said most likeley a crank or cam position sensor. As the sensors age they get weaker and weaker. Heat makes them weaker still, so when they get old they begin to cut out randomly. Usually when they cool down they will work again for a while. Eventually the intervals will get shorter and shorter untill one day it simply won't start. A code reader should pick up the error code.
Haven't owned a 2WD since 1982.

Outdoor_Steve
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Outdoor_Steve » June 13th, 2013, 9:16 pm

cmar, Hoping to get a code reader shortly, and very interested to see what readings I actually get. Will provide an update when I can.

mydmax, you are on the money there!! The car stopped again yesterday when the missus did dome shopping and made a few stops (she now allows extra time to allow for the delays!!). At least it didn't stop when she went to work in it today:-)

Cheers,
Steve

mydmax
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by mydmax » June 13th, 2013, 9:27 pm

Steve.
With a thermos of freezing cold water and a bit of poly watering system pipe you might be able to pour cool water onto it and see if it gets better quicker for a diagnosis.

Outdoor_Steve
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Outdoor_Steve » June 13th, 2013, 10:02 pm

mydmax, good idea, might be easier to get the liquid to the area than with some freeze spray.

Cheers,
Steve

cmar
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by cmar » June 14th, 2013, 7:32 pm

(she now allows extra time to allow for the delays!!)
Sounds expensive - you better fix it as soon as possible!
Haven't owned a 2WD since 1982.

Lux77
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Re: ZD30 Brain Teaser - it stops randomly! Any ideas?

Unread post by Lux77 » June 14th, 2013, 8:27 pm

I am going to take a guess and say a throttle position sensor. Any decent mechanical shop should be able to read the codes and give you an Idea on where to start. Take note, does it stop as you are about to take off? Traffic lights, roundabouts etc? If yes I would be looking at TPS. They are a sensor that is screwed to the side of the pedal assembly. Nissan will want $300 odd bucks for a whole assembly but my mechanic found out, that a rodeo unit is the same. That's what I have on my car. Let us know how you go

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