D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

martyjv76
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D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by martyjv76 » June 1st, 2014, 8:17 am

So I have 139000 on my 2011 Prado GXL and recently without any warning lost power and started blowing smoke, the Toyota dealer that the car is currently at started the vehicle pulled the dipstick out and on the spot diagnosed it as a hole in the piston which will require a replacement engine and a full set of injectors. Cost for this a cool $15000!!!! Naturally I am not very happy and have asked for a little more comprehensive diagnosis prior to handing over such a large sum of money, i can handle the fact that this sort of thing can happen as there are many tails of this very issue on both standard and modified Prado's and Hilux's. I am wanting to ensure that if I am spending such a large amount that it will simply not just happen again in another 100000k or so, so my question is. Has anyone looked at improving the strength of the internals when completing such a rebuild(forged pistons, balancing, blue printing etc.) to improve the reliability of the engine and increase the performance with mods???

NZ LUX
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by NZ LUX » June 1st, 2014, 9:02 am

Must be a bloody good mechanic if he can whip the dipstick out and say a piston is buggered! I wonder what else he can diagnose by removing the tyre valve caps?

On a more serious note, I would definitely be after a far more comprehensive check before anything is replaced. Possibly from an independent workshop just to get an unbiased opinion on things.

mydmax
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by mydmax » June 1st, 2014, 10:16 am

It MAY need a new set of pistons and PERHAPS injectors, but at 139,000 the bores and everything else should still be in good trim. So a "repair", rather than a "replace", may be the order of the day.
A second opinion will be in your interest.
If it is under warranty it may be in your favour and it also may be better to get someone who has more experience rebuilding Toyota engines than a dealer of Toyota. They may not have replaced or repaired any D4D engines much at all.

Best to ask first how many similar jobs they have done.
Apart from the replacement parts aspect at Toyota, a person who knows engines would be better at a rebuild than a dealer mechanic, unless he is an enthusiast and not just a spanner wrangler.

martyjv76
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by martyjv76 » June 1st, 2014, 11:26 am

Was actually thinking I should offer this guy a job given how bloody good he is....

Thanks for your comments and I will be getting further advice and a second opinion that's for sure, most dealers these days unfortunately are just new parts fitters and don't actually repair many things. My comment to them was even if there is a hole in the piston the engine is still running which would be a pretty good indication that's most of the internals are still functioning, it did not get hot and the oil level was still correct.

I guess what I am saying is if I am rebuilding it it want it to be stronger than before.

Fearless1
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by Fearless1 » June 22nd, 2014, 7:54 am

Hay Marty

How did you go with the dealer?

Just be carefull if its out of warrantry. They all say "bad fuel" or if still in warrantry "known problem".

Get second and third quotes. Where abouts are you located?

Also, not meaning to hijack the tread, if you want more advice/info, head over to pradopoint.com. They have a very extensive section on there about the D4D.

Cheers

Frank

Shaker4x4
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by Shaker4x4 » February 8th, 2015, 11:49 am

I realize this thread is aging a bit, but comments of misdiagnosis through simply removing a dip stick may well be out of line. It's uncommon for an alloy piston in a common rail to fail, unless an unlikely mishap caused imperfections during the forging process. It's very common however for just about every dealer's service department to find catastrophic failure of pistons as a direct result of aftermarket power module/chips, that increase fuel rail pressures so high, it litterally turns the injectors into 'water cutters' to hot alloy pistons. The end result is a hole blown through the piston! People think they are clever removing these modules before the vehicle's engine goes in to be assessed under warranty, but the proof is markedly obvious rail pressures have been running excessively high! The only power modules/chips that should be installed are those that leave rail pressures well alone! Rather, it's better to change injector timing and boost.

I'm not saying the OP here did the above. I do suspect the obvious when holes blow in alloy pistons in common rails. The OP did not return here to state any further disappoinment in the quality of he's machine or mechanic's competence either.

So to those that enjoy burning their candle excessively brighter, consider your wax will also melt faster, until the light goes out. Look up Supercar Performance, read their website. Also consider it is not advertized as a warning, because there is money to be made from these mods that don't do their damage until they are out of warranty and litigation, and mechanical failures, no matter what the cause is big business.

Again, this is only speculations of what occured here. The rest is absolutely true.

Shakes.

mrsmiffy
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by mrsmiffy » October 7th, 2015, 8:12 am

As an experienced diesel mechanic. 45 years.. If I pulled a dipstick out of a motor with a blown piston, I could tell you immediately by the fumes coming out of the dipstick tube.
I also note that this vehicle if fitted with a Chip.

stanmiko
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by stanmiko » October 14th, 2015, 11:48 am

The D4D was the subject of a recall (customer experience) program since January 2015.

Mr Toyo deduced that injector seals were failing due to incorrect fitment procedure, so is replacing them free of charge. At the same time, they are doing injector readings which will often reveal at least one of the injectors being out of serviceable specification, meaning a complete injector replacement.

NOT going through this process can lead to either (or both) too lean or too rich a fuel mixture being thrown into your combustion chamber, potentially leading to complete engine failure, including burnt pistons and hydraulic lock-up. My advice to ANYONE that has not had this done to contact your local dealer ASAP, particularly if you have the "death rattle" at and for a short while after cold start-up and during initial acceleration.

The resultant heavy blow-by caused by failing injector seals will put excessive soot into your oil, clog your oil pick-up and lead to engine failure due to oil starvation. If you do your own oil changes, you MUST check the oil pick up screen through the sump drain hole. If it is even slightly gunked up, it MUST be cleaned to avoid oil starvation.

Shaker4x4
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by Shaker4x4 » December 17th, 2015, 4:04 pm

^^^ Wow at the last post. I knew injector seats were a problem, likely needing to be regularly checked for torque spec to keep wear minimized, but I knew not of any recall to replace seats. I haven't done many kms in my D4D yet, but will get onto it for sure thank-you.

I will also add to the worn injector seats adding contaminates to the oil is happening in Hyundai Imax/Iload diesel engines, weee the oil suspension is overwhelmed with soot in the oil, and sludges quite rapidly once oil suspension is all used up. The oil pickups are then clogging, thus restrictiong oil flow to the turbo, and it's seals. Fist sign if oil is left unchecked is oil leaking from the torbo bearing seals, then without warning, the turbo goes bang. Under warranty, particularly with Hyundai's long warranties, they tend to scrutinize service history, trying to pass blame onto incorrect service proceedures or time frames when servicing is done elsewhere. It's definately food for thought.

Shaker4x4
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Re: D4D woes, 139000 and a holed piston.....

Unread post by Shaker4x4 » December 17th, 2015, 4:18 pm

After posting, I contacted Toyota Service, and no recall was issued for my model. It was obviously models with old Denso injectors that had cold start rattle problems. I think this recall applied to I think up to 2009 models before the engine injector update. Though if anyone has this engine prior to mine (2010,) then buy all means GET IT CHECKED. The cost of replacing a turbo, or catastophic engine failures is far to late for an easy fix.

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