How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pls?

nick95
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How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pls?

Unread post by nick95 » April 28th, 2014, 2:40 am

Hi there
Im looking to do a front end SAS conversion and had a few questions, I'm quite handing around the tools and have already done a shell conversion.
How much am i looking at to do this conversion?
What front diff would be the best go? Landy 80series?
Will I need an engineering certificate and if so are there hard to get after doing the conversion?
Am i better off taking it to a professional?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

MasterInnovator
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Re: toyota 4runner front end SAS HELP!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » April 28th, 2014, 9:16 am

Yes you will need an engineering cert. If you are quite handy and think you could tackle it yourself then no need to take it to a professional. How hard it will be depends on the preparation/planning and suspension set up. Obviously a leafy sas will be easier, but you don't get as much flex compared to coils. Coils are a bit more complicated but if you think you can work it all out beforehand and put it on the vehicle successfully, then you will be reaping the rewards of better flex. Also depends on the rear set up as well, but also what your preferences are. Find and Consult an engineer FIRST, that will save problems down the track. Tell him what you plan to do. Make sure that he can definitely give the mod plated when its finished so your not left in the dark after you put all your hard work in only to find it may not be able to pass roadworthy. You can find a list of engineers from your local Transport departement

MasterInnovator
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Re: toyota 4runner front end SAS HELP!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » April 28th, 2014, 9:20 am

You will also need a qualified welder to fully weld on any new mounts or bits and pieces, other wise you may find that no engineers will go near it. You will probably need to get a swerve test done when its finished, but that will be brought to your attention when you consult an engineer, he should go through everything you need to know

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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Peter Aawen » April 28th, 2014, 11:46 am

As MI said, talk to your State's motor registry and get their listing of Approved 'Engineers for Modifications' who can certify that sort of stuff, then talk to one (or more) of them FIRST and find out what they will require you to do in order for them to pass it BEFORE you start doing anything. Rarely will they be happy about coming in to a project like that at the end & being asked to approve it when they haven't over-seen the job from the word go - in fact, many simply won't even consider it!! If you've started, you might find it very difficult to get anyone to even consider passing it without stripping it right back to the bare metal..... So find out what the legal requirements are first, and get an engineer who is prepared to guide you thru the whole process, tell you what they will/wont let you do or what hasta be done by a professional, and give you an idea of what it will all cost as well as what they will charge.

Good Luck! ;)
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Aaron Schubert » April 28th, 2014, 8:16 pm

This is an extremely expensive mod - to get it all done I would say 5k +

You really have to weigh the benefits vs cost up. For me, I'd just swap vehicles

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nick95
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by nick95 » April 29th, 2014, 1:31 am

Thanks a lot really helps!
I wouldn't even consider trading cars i understand that its a lot of work and money but i love the 4runners this is my first car and want to do a serious project on it.
Hands down will be going coils in the front, crazy not too.
The biggest thing really will be getting it engineered.
Could you reckon what front axel/diff would be best to run? Ive heard 80 series is the go, and if so are the ratios going to be different in the back??

Rogers Cruiser
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Rogers Cruiser » April 29th, 2014, 2:27 am

mate, if your serious about this before you go about anything else, go and find an engineer to talk to about it!

What you do will be limited by what they will pass.

Now here are my 2cents!
As for what front diff, what model 4runner is it? if its an early one then you could go with a hilux front diff, and if you want to go with coils up front then I would go 80 series (assuming the diff isnt too wide), starting with a 80 series doner you could cut off the essential bits and then weld them to the 4runner chassis (MUCH, MUCH harder then it sounds) then you could graft the coil and shock mounts onto the 4runner chassis (assuming the body let them fit ect.) and fit it all up.

Are you a good welder? I consider myself to be one of the better "backyard welders" and this isnt even something I would consider without a boilermaker standing over my shoulder!

Matching diff ratios would be one of the easier tasks you would have, there are a few options around and you would adjust to suit your tires I would assume.

My guess is around $7K all up if you just hand it to someone and ask to get it done and even then its proberbly a few months work, you might be able to get it as low as 2K if you can find a donor and a co-operative engineer but that would be pushing it.

Short story. . . . if you have to ask how difficult it is then you cant do it yourself. (I have found this true for many things myself).
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Rogers Cruiser
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Rogers Cruiser » April 29th, 2014, 2:31 am

Also you need to look at front drive shaft options and transfer case outputs fouling the engine ect., modifying the brake booster for the new brakes if you go with a new fornt, suspension bump stops and steering box inputs.

The more I think about it the more I think that this would be a total $%@&*# of a job to do.
'98-'06 - FJ-45 Ute fell over one day and didnt survive
'06-now - HJ-47 Troopy, restored and now daily driver.
'13-now - HJ-47 Ute, Farm fresh rust bucket, needs a restoration. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=152811

now - Off Road Box/Camper Trailer. viewtopic.php?f=134&t=153968&p=1792444#p1792444

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JC807
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by JC807 » April 29th, 2014, 9:12 pm

Keep in mind the engineering cert could be up to a grand , then swerve test costs etc...
I would suggest these types of conversions are really for people who are skilled and tooled up to complete the job themselves, especially on older vehicles.
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nick95
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by nick95 » April 30th, 2014, 12:56 am

Thanks a lot roger really helps!!

Well really the more i weight it up into time and the headache off it all it just seems a hell of a lot easier to buy a patrol or landcrusier.

I really had my mind set on doing this project but it seems just abit out off my league.

I still think that the 4runners with a solid axel in the front are some off the coolest looking fourbys going. Looks like I'm just gunna have to stick with doing the wheelies :p

Thanks a lot everyone really helps a young fellow fourber like myself out!!

taspatrol
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by taspatrol » May 12th, 2014, 8:36 am

i have thought about this alot. i have a 1uz surf and have had a fair few problems with the ifs and fitting tyres bigger than 31s
bunderra front diff is what you want ring an engineer and ask the question once i have another car for my missus to drive to work i will be doing it

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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Rogers Cruiser » May 12th, 2014, 11:24 am

taspatrol, If your going to do it, do it right :) 80 series diffs front and rear and springs all round, or even better, go for patrol diffs, the engineering is going to be the same cost so why not increase your wheel track at the same time. :)

just a thought!
'98-'06 - FJ-45 Ute fell over one day and didnt survive
'06-now - HJ-47 Troopy, restored and now daily driver.
'13-now - HJ-47 Ute, Farm fresh rust bucket, needs a restoration. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=152811

now - Off Road Box/Camper Trailer. viewtopic.php?f=134&t=153968&p=1792444#p1792444

Dont listen to me, Ive got an opinion on everything!

Coco7
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Coco7 » June 7th, 2014, 8:01 pm

No need for a swerve test if the vehicle is not being raised any higher than 3 inches from standard (in QLD). Secondly, With the front diff you would get a bundera front and just weld on the shock mounts and link mounts etc. Or use a hilux front diff and make your own linkage system and coil buckets and whatever. Or go with patrol or 80 series diffs. Both have coils all round. Only problem is that you will then need flares to cover the tires. And if your running 33 inch tires, generally they are 12.5 inch wide and in need of 15/16/17 x10 inch rims. And like 90% of those rims have a negative 40mm offset which means you will have more tire to try and cover. You can use 15/16/17 x 8 inch rim though to which mose are about 23mm offset. The other problem with running partol or 80 series diffs is that you can exceed any further than 50mm of the standard manufacturer wheelbase. So running those wider tires with big offset rims is illegal to. Any wheel base of any diffs that is wider than 50mm from standard is illegal. Stupid, but true.... In my opinion, I would use bundera or hilux front diff. Then get the solid axle-ifs hub adapter to even out the front diff to the same wheel base as the rear. Your brake booster will be fine so long as its the 1 inch bore master cylinder on it (shown on the front of the master cylinder, 1"). Run the 4runner brake calipers and pads, you will need to for legal reasons. Engineers will pass radius arms much easier than links with panhard rod. Something to do with stability and braking and all wierd engineer talking stuff. So that could be another option for you to.. Have fun. If you go for it, then u should put a build up of it on here. Would like to watch it progress

Toyholden
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Re: How much to do a 4runner front end SAS? Advice needed pl

Unread post by Toyholden » June 29th, 2014, 12:43 am

Coco is pretty much on pah!
easiest option is use a non V8 78/79series front diff as it's already the rite track width 1495mm same as rear track of the 4runner... the 80series diff is 1595mm & theres a little more work in setting up the coil/shock towers to line up with coil hats on diff without having inverted coils up front... But Engineers are happy to engineer leaves up front if the vehicle has leaves out back, where as in my case my Surf has Coils out back & the engineer wont look at it if I did leaves up front...

Anyway... I have & am fitting 80series diffs front & back very soon so if you keep an eye out on my build I will be doing a thorough documented conversion for all to learn from...

TOYHOLDEN's V8 SURF BUILD "Almost SAS Time"
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=136299
______________**BUILT NOT BOUGHT & FULLY ENGINEERED**______________
Toyota SURF 94 > 308 V8 - TH350 > SNAKEracing 4IN Lift Kit > 30mm Body Lift
Mickey Thompson 33x12.5xR15 MTZ'S + Micky Thompson Dick Cepec 15x8 Rims

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