legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

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ridgey
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legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by ridgey » April 30th, 2017, 6:52 pm

howdy all..

i know there has been many debates over time but im after the yes or no answer based on current qld law. I am going to the cape with a group of mates in july, heard the wash outs are as bad as they have been in a decade this year so thinking max legal clearance.

I have a mate at work that has 34" tyres on a GU patrol running 4" lift, its a weapon, and tries day in day out to convince me its road legal. I have a 94 80 series and one of the main reasons i picked that was because i worked out i could run 33" tyres plus a 2" lift and be completely legal, which i have on currently but in my mind my mates patrol is 75mm over legal ( 3" over factory tyre plus 4" lift which is 175mm gain which is 75mm over QLD legal 100mm over factory total height gain without mod plate and sway test ?!? )

^^ is this right? i would like to run 35s for that extra clearance but figure it will put my 80 series over legal allowed 25mm plus whatever impact on diff ratio etc ?!

any accurate feedback muchly appreciated

BigDutchy
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by BigDutchy » May 1st, 2017, 4:15 pm

34" is illegal. You are right. His lift and tires are to big.

Copy from Qld website

Can I raise my vehicle’s ride height?

A vehicle's ride height can be increased in a number of ways. These include:

Tyre diameter increase
Raising a vehicle's suspension
Body blocks

The limit a vehicle's ride height can be increased is dependent on which combination of the above method(s) are used. Each of the above vehicle lift methods have a maximum allowable increase they can achieve (maximum suspension lift 50mm, maximum tyre diameter increase 50mm, maximum body block lift 50mm). The maximum total combined lift of the vehicle cannot exceed 125mm.

I have been told I can put 50mm large diameter tyres on my 4WD, they do this in other states and territories, is this permitted in Queensland?

Yes, the following types of vehicles can have their tyre diameter increased by up to 50mm or reduced by no more than 26mm from any tyre diameter designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle:

4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category), or
4WD goods vehicles and their 2WD equivalents if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD versions (N ADR category)

*** Reading this you could even include a 25mm body lift and you will be sweet.
I thought 100mm was the limit...

ridgey
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by ridgey » May 1st, 2017, 7:02 pm

ok good find, I didn't see that info when looking. So 125mm??! And reading about tyres 33" is diameter, so to gain 50mm that means I could go from the factory 33s to 35s plus the 2" suspension lift PLUS 25mm body lift and still be on the legal 125mm total height gain.. that sounding right? or for example could leave the 33s on and do a 5" lift and also stay legal?!

Peter Aawen
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by Peter Aawen » May 1st, 2017, 9:56 pm

A tyre diameter increase of 50mm will only give you a 25m overall height increase, so you can do the 50mm tyre dia increase (33's to 35's - IF your vehicle has 33's on its tyre placard!) plus a 50mm suspension lift plus a 50mm body lift to get your max of 125mm height increase measured at the roofline - but I believe you still hafta get all that engineered! And while you are at it, each of those lift height limits are the max increase allowed, ie, 50mm = the MAX for tyres, 50mm is the MAX for suspension, or 50mm is the MAX for body blocks; so NO, you can NOT stick with the 33's & do a 5" lift any othervway & still remain legal within the standard rules & processes.... :(

I can't recall exactly what Qld specifies now, but the National Code was intended to allow any ONE of those lifts to happen WITHOUT engineering; while still allowing up to the max specified 125mm combined lift WITH engineering (altho not [i]necessarily[/i] requiring the braking & lane change/swerve tests - they were left up to the engineer) & if you wanted to do anything else you had no choice but to apply for a non-complying modification approval & go thru the rather expensive & strenuous 'non-complying modification' engineering testing process that included all those extra tests, IF you can find an Engineer who's prepared to take it al on!! :eek:

So while your mate's GU definitely wouldn't be legal under the standard 'complying modification' rules, there is a slight chance that his Patrol is still legal, but if it is it'll definitely have a mod plate & a whole crap load of paperwork to support the Non-complying modification approval & the all Engineering & testing that it went thru to get there! ;)

But your best bet to make sure you do the right/legal thing is to talk to your local motor registry & get their list of approval engineers, then find one of them who is prepared to sign off on what you want to do. It might be a lot easier than you think to keep it all legal, but unless you check it all out with your registry, you could end up in deep doggy do!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

stockhorse
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by stockhorse » May 2nd, 2017, 8:05 am

Mate sorry to be the bearer of bad news. under the Qld C.O.P. you are only allowed a 75mm total lift (without certification). That means you can legally go, 50mm larger diameter tyres so you can get a 25mm lift that way and then you can only have a 50mm suspension lift. Body lifts are not legal in Qld at all (without certification)
The above information is from Queensland Code of Practice – Vehicle Modifications March 2017
Your mates Patrol is police bait and would be a good candidate to be put off the road in Bamaga and cost a fortune to bring back to roadworthy condition or freighted home.

V Williamson
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by V Williamson » May 2nd, 2017, 9:16 am

ridgey wrote:.... I am going to the cape with a group of mates in july, heard the wash outs are as bad as they have been in a decade this year so thinking max legal clearance.

....
It sounds like you want to go via the old telegraph track north of Bramwell station. Because there is a bypass with a surprising amount of sealed road. Grandma's Yaris could go to the Cape via the bypass with no more difficulty than any other vehicle, ie the road corrugations elsewhere shake anything apart. From "weapon" Patrols with incredible lift (and more points to fatigue on the constant hammering of the corrugations) to the humble Yaris, all will take a belting.

ridgey
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by ridgey » May 2nd, 2017, 2:19 pm

ok, so in summary there with that info above, 75mm total height without mod plate and 125mm with mod plate engineered? So currently i have 2" lift and the wonderful 80 series come with 33" tyres standard, so that puts me at a total gain of 50mm, legal without a mod plate and essentially i could add either an additional 25mm body lift of bigger tyres up to an additional 25mm without going to trouble of re-engineering?

All good to know, i see so many young fellas getting around with an old hilux or narvara with 35s and a 6" lift and think my god how are they not getting pulled over..

ill probably stick with the 33s im running depends on finances, if i find a pair of cheap 35s on facebook or gumtree and still be legal with my 2" id swap them on just for the trip and swap back my good 33s when i get home but by putting 35s onto my 80 series with a 2" lift means im up for mod plating and re-engineering i wont bother

ridgey
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by ridgey » May 2nd, 2017, 2:29 pm

V Williamson wrote:....ie the road corrugations elsewhere shake anything apart. From "weapon" Patrols with incredible lift (and more points to fatigue on the constant hammering of the corrugations) to the humble Yaris, all will take a belting.
just on this mate.. i normally run 38 psi on highway and around 22 psi on sand.. is there a nomimal psi that helps with corrugation?

stockhorse
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by stockhorse » May 2nd, 2017, 7:58 pm

Your original tyres are 32.24 by conversion but are classified as 32 by the tyre manufacturers.

Pressure for corrugations depends from day to day as the corrugations change each day. I found that about 6-8 lb below my normal pressures worked for my 60 series but altering speed by 10-15kph(up or down) worked for a far smoother ride.

V Williamson
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Re: legal tyre size in qld 80 series vs patrol

Unread post by V Williamson » May 4th, 2017, 8:44 pm

Just a comment on the tyre pressures as well, my understanding about varying tyre pressures is to give, for lower pressures, a greater contact patch between the tyre and the surface being driven on so that the weight pressure (force per unit area) of the vehicle is spread and reduces the sinking into, typically, soft sand.

Ok, that mouthful said, the pneumatic tyre is a part of the overall suspension system and the way the vehicle handles irregularities of the surface being driven over will most likely be affected by tyre pressure. But by how much? It may be only a small player in this game. I simply don't know. But we have to remember that a vehicle suspension system being the tyres, springs and shock absorbers are by necessity a compromise. The manufacturers will design for an optimal ride in certain prescribed conditions. Outside these conditions - whatever they might be - suspension performance will drop off. By how much? Well any number of variables come into the equation so its a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question for the average punter.

So what is the problem with the Cape York road? I did the run over two years ago and I doubt that much would have change in the intervening time. The road is generally being maintained, but there a lot of kilometres of road and only so much road crew to do the maintenance. It so happened that on our trip, the section between the Weipa turnoff and Bramwell Junction (the start of the old tele track going north) was in pretty good nick and we could cruise at 80km/hr. But elsewhere, the famous corrugations were in abundance. Ok so you slow down for these at whatever speed you feel comfortable at (or sometimes they came "out of nowhere" and we had an UNcomfortable ride over them till we bled the km/hr off), then the road might pick up again - for 30 metres - and then it was on again for another 200 metres. Basically I think most, myself included, drove over them too fast, but say the thought of Bamaga being 3 hours away if I took the corrugations correctly when I have already crossed the Jardine River was hard to take - lets get there a bit faster... At the time of our trip, the road between the ferry and Bamaga was the worst.

Ummm, I seem to remember the "Mythbusters" looking at the story that taking corrugations at a higher speed was supposed to smooth them out. I can't recall the outcome of their experiments, but I will leave testing that one of the Cape corrugations to somebody else.

So on tyre pressures and corrugations, I really don't know, but maybe stockhorse is onto something with the lower pressures. The old joke is that any pregnant woman on the cape road is going to have a girl, because the corrugations shake the nuts off everything! Jokes aside, you do need to check the security of anything fitted to your vehicle and camper regularly in the hope to avoid mishap.

Back on the lift and mods issue, make sure that your insurance company is happy with any mods. Even "legal" mods might give grounds for an insurer to refuse a claim on the grounds that the insurer wasn't made aware, and agreed, to them.

Also be well aware of what you are up against if you are going via the old tele track. Nolan's Brook has been a vehicle killer. It had claimed a number of the 28 vehicles destroyed up that way on our trip for that season that far when we were there. Try youtube and see a 2 year old prado succumb to Nolan's... If you do wreck your ride, then up there, you may have a very expensive boat ride back to Cairns getting all the extra fittings you had added off a writeoff - plus camping gear etc. Nolan's is particularly unforgiving and an attitude of "I can't go back saying I turned around", "I've got the meanest fourby out" etc etc has been behind quite a few mishaps there.

Anyway, have fun at the Cape. I am glad I did it. But respect the conditions. Cheers.

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