Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading?

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Bruosk
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Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading?

Unread post by Bruosk » November 8th, 2016, 5:27 pm

My guess is the carry capacity is only designed around bitumen driving? As there would be too many variables offroading.

I read some sayings that the roads don't break your 4wd, the overloading does & probably how hard & fast your moving. Not sure if most damage is done by going over your payload or by not staying say 30% under it? In the latter case how on earth could you take any supplies with you.

Not sure what else to ask. cheers

stockhorse
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by stockhorse » November 8th, 2016, 6:42 pm

Bruosk, I understand you are new to all this stuff but, give us an idea of what you would take/consider you need for four people on a 1000klm round trip with 500klm being moderate 4x4 tracks and taking 7 days.

mud chisel
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by mud chisel » November 8th, 2016, 8:51 pm

force breaks things. The heavier you are and the faster you go over rougher terrain the greater the forces become. Pack your car correctly- heavy items low and centred around the point of pivot/leverage ie the axels and as things get rougher let your tires down and drive slower and smoother and you can go all the way to gvm no worries.
gvm is about legality not breaking stuff.

buffer
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by buffer » November 8th, 2016, 10:34 pm

I have traveled many miles in the outback, over corrugations and even crossed the Simpson Desert. All fully loaded to the max with 4 adults, never had a problem or broken anything. The trick is to slow down and just drive to the conditions.Also as previously said load all heavy things low.
100 series 4.2TD, 2" lift, ARB twin lockers, Safari snorkel, ARB winch bar with brushbars and sidesteps, 12000lb winch, supernova driving lights and custom made aluminium rack with awning, ARB dual rear bar, dual batteries, Airbag assists rear.

Bruosk
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by Bruosk » November 9th, 2016, 4:44 pm

Hi stockhorse

I plan trips with a duration of 2 weeks & even up to 3 weeks without a trailer. Maybe constant traveling or just staying put in one spot for the whole time.
60L long range tank, 2 front passenger adults, fully loaded roofrack of 100kg spread out, food, drinks, misc stuff in second row seats, 100L of water in jerrys, 80L fridge, small fold tables, aux battery in cargo bay. 50kg of generic tools like compressor & recovery gear in bootwell. Rear spare wheel & jerrys on tail gate or rear bar.
Basically what I think I need for two in a remote place without having to take a trailer. But it always ends up being around 900-1000kg on top of kerb weight.

Anyway I think the wagon is dead & I should go for something with a lot of payload like 1200kg. I was looking to get a LC100 for it's luxury & power, but I really don't know if I should load it up soo much.

jfoldbar
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by jfoldbar » November 9th, 2016, 6:40 pm

gee. i must be a tight ass or something. my 2 week trip i carried about 700kgs.
this xmas im doing tassie for 4 weeks and i plan to be about 500kgs. i wouldnt know what else to carry even if i wanted to.


funny thing with the gvm on my 80. it can legally seat 8 people, but 5-6 adults is enough to put it over gvm.

cmar
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by cmar » November 23rd, 2016, 7:10 pm

See reply above about the wagon is dead. They have so much stuff standard that a full load of passengers + a camper ball download completely fill their payload. WTF! something is wrong here, welcome the dual cab ute as the new tourer!
Haven't owned a 2WD since 1982.

M543
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by M543 » November 23rd, 2016, 10:06 pm

Bruosk wrote:Basically what I think I need for two in a remote place without having to take a trailer. But it always ends up being around 900-1000kg on top of kerb weight.

Anyway I think the wagon is dead & I should go for something with a lot of payload like 1200kg. I was looking to get a LC100 for it's luxury & power, but I really don't know if I should load it up soo much.
My wife and I take about half that in our single cab ute. We have driven it everywhere from the VHC to the Connie Sue Hwy and the Gunbarrell west of Warburton.

We do not have a long range tank or a bull bar and winch. Recovery gear is minimal. When are on our own we always get local information on road/track conditions as well as weather reports. If we think we could have problems getting through, we don't go there.

We do carry two jerrys for fuel but rarely have to use them. We did not take extra fuel on the Gunbarrell trip.

You can never take enough equipment to handle every conceivable situation but you can overload the car and create problems by trying. The bush workshops are always flat out fixing broken tourists cars. They would go broke if they had to rely on broken locally owned cars.

The carrying capacity of a 100 series is about 650 kg. That is the price you pay for having a five seat station wagon body on a chassis that is much the same size as a single cab ute. About three quarters of that weight is supposed to be in the seats if you fully load it with the weight correctly distributed.

If you must take loads that high and you only have two adults in the car then buy a Cruiser single cab ute. Even then you will have it up around its limit.

Regarding reducing the load in off road conditions: The Armed Forces 4x4 cars that I drove were always well under maximum weight. That is why you rarely see an Army Land Rover in a convoy out in the middle of nowhere without a trailer. The cars are always kept well below their carrying and towing capacity. The result is maximum reliability.

The editioral in the 4X4 Australia magazine last year that contained the bent ute story said the load should be reduced by 30 to 40 percent. It is just common sense. These cars are built to a price, not the highest standard possible. Maximum possible speed with just one person in the car around a public road like Mt Panorama at Bathurst will soon start breaking things.

High speeds in the bush is just as bad even when the load is not high as you can see in this old Redex Trial video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rADZW5COfIg I have a book covering these trials ( I also saw them ) and many cars, particularly Holdens, had a lot of body and sub frame cracks.

If you are not familiar with those trials then sit back relax and enjoy them. There is a lot of history here.

Shann Low
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by Shann Low » November 24th, 2016, 4:27 am

Sheesh my wife's ******* handbag has enough in it to put most 4x4's over GVM. :lol:

That's why I bought the F 250.... no issues about overloading, with 2.5 tonnes capacity in the back!

The Payload capacity of the cruisers etc has become a bit of a joke joke for any serious off roadng in Oz.

Sure they have everything but the kitchen sink and you can go anywhere in them BUT by the time you've packed in everything else you need to go there - then the payload is barely enough for you and the dog!

The reality is the engineers who design them have become a bunch of soft cocks!.

They head out of the office in their suit with their styro foam cup of moccafrappachinocafelatteesoydecafflactoseintolerantfrothedmilk 'coffee' - in their 3 piece suit and drop the tiddlywinks off to their private school, (so the priests there can interfere with them, but at least they can say they went to a prestigious school), and call that a "testing session".

Face it its a joke.

Gone are the days when Harry Butler took his land rover into the wilds weighed down with everything including the kitchen sink (and 3 spare axles coz they were known to break a lot) & his only air conditioning was winding down the window.

Australia's off roading scene has become the last bastion of a bunch a pansy assed butt munchers!.

Cruisers and the like these days are built for wealthy Saudi oil princes to drive out into the Sahara and back for a day trip with nothing more than a fridge full of cold drinks.

They aren't built to tour Oz with the family in tow.

You see them do any of these outback safaris for the cameras and they have a fleet of road trains with all the maintenance and service gear tagging along to keep the vehicles running.

Things have changed in Oz in relation to exploring this great land - and largely for the worse in many cases.

Wolf creek meterorite crater... 4wd access only - except back in ~ 1977 I remember bumping nto a young English couple exploring the outback in a cheap ol XP Falcon sedan they had bought for a few hundred dollars!

They were on the track into Wolf Creek in their old red falcon with not even a spare wheel (car never came with one when they landed here and bought it specifically for the trip!).

All 4 tyres were bald- not a skeric of tread on any of them, BUT he had 2 tyre levers and a boot full of new true tubes and patch kits and a old menzel pump where he could pump them up from the engine by removing a spark plug!

Each time he got a flat he took the wheel off, levered the bald casing of - thu the old inner tube away - patched the tyre and put a new tube in, pumped it up again and bolted her back on and away they went again!.

No air conditioning in those days!

They made it both into Wolf Creek & back out again, and we saw them here & there all the way across WA Kimberley and down thru the territory as far as Ayers Rock - coz thats what it was bloody well called back in the day non of this 'Uluru' political correctness bullshenhyzer.

I think the worlds gone soft.

No one will tackle anywhere these days unless they have a few hundred grands worth of new 4wd vehicle and gear!

Nowadays there's no discrete camping left pretty much anywhere worth seeing.

No one stops anywhere off the beaten track - they prefer to camp at a caravan park, so they can compare their rigs and vans etc with every other loser grey nomad with no idea.

Bah humbug... soft cocks, that's whats wrong with this country. :p

M543
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by M543 » November 24th, 2016, 10:36 am

Shann Low wrote: Gone are the days when Harry Butler took his land rover into the wilds weighed down with everything including the kitchen sink (and 3 spare axles coz they were known to break a lot)
That was because they were overloaded.

Car manufacturer's engineers know what they want the car to do. They build it to do just that then test the prototypes to destruction. The only owners who have any problems are the ones that expect the cars to do what the next size up the range has been designed to do.

4wd owners are notorious for buying cars that are too small then they try and upgrade them. You did the right thing and bought the right vehicle in the first place.

The alternative to that is to put a little in the car and the rest in a small trailer. Chances are you will end up taking even more gear on trips but the car will still be well under stressed in both its carrying and towing capacity.

cmar
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Re: Are you supposed to stay 30-40% below GVM for offroading

Unread post by cmar » November 26th, 2016, 8:25 am

That's why I bought the F 250.... no issues about overloading, with 2.5 tonnes capacity in the back!
Ah so true, I used to have a Ford Bronco, my father an F100 both were alledgedly 1 tonne vehicles, ( 800 kilos in Bronco form) yet a look at the massive scale of stuff under the Fords (same running gear) and then under a same time period Hilux or Nissan 720, hmm, how can these possibly also be, 1 tonne vehicles.

The difference is the Fords did a tonne easily, the Japanese utes would do it much harder.

The Fords used a massive cast iron case, New Process gear gearbox, a proper truck box, a twin plate clutch, a NP Gear 208 transfer case, a simple, reliable, mechanical actuated chain drive case, neither box never gave one ounce of trouble in over 500,000 km of use, Dana 44 track lock front axle, Ford 9" rear with limited slip.

I did find that mine used to tear up pressure plates, until eventually I found that a Falcon GTHO one would fit, and last, -and I developed an enormously strong left leg.
Haven't owned a 2WD since 1982.

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