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2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issues?

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2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issues?

hello i have a 1997 gq patrol 2.8 turbo deisel after it overheated i started to notice that the radiator had a lot of pressure in it after it had cooled down i am assuming that it could be the head gasket,or head itself is there an easy fix for this or do i need to remorgage my house to fix it ,i have been told that i can still drive it but watch the temp and it will just use more water the patrol has 190,000 ks on the clock is this a normal trate for this modle of patrol ,i have spent a lot of money on the old girl and i dont want to get rid of it has anybody got any suggestions cheers tony

Unread postby tony bogle » June 5th, 2012, 1:30 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo deisel,head issues

Head issues never get better and only get worse and cause more damage as you continue to drive it. Get it diagnosed and head removed to minimize damage.
It may only be the head gasket at the moment but will be worse later on. "Of course you can still drive it", many say this but it is obvious they don't care about what happens cos it isn't their problem.
Make sure you replace the thermostat and have the radiator checked out before using the engine again as they amy be the cause of the problem.

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Unread postby mydmax » June 5th, 2012, 5:51 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo deisel,head issues

cheers thankyou for the advice mydmax i will take all that on board ill see how i go i reakon i will pelace the radiater as well just to be sure thanks

Unread postby tony bogle » June 6th, 2012, 6:44 am


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

You might not need to replace the radiator, but almost certainly some failure or shortfall in the cooling system will have contributed to this, so don't whatever you do spend money fixing the head issues without getting the cooling system checked & serviced/sorted too!! Flush the entire cooling system inc heater core, new coolant of the right quality/std, at least a rodded radiator core if not new, check/replace the thermostat, check/replace the fan and viscous hub, etc - any of them could well have contributed to your problems, if not been the cause in the first place!!

Good motors if you look after them, but cos they are pushing the limits of output a little, maintenance is important, especially if you or a previous owner have been playing with the engine/Injector system to get better power/torque without increasing the cooling system's tolerance. Good Luck
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Unread postby Peter Aawen » June 6th, 2012, 2:42 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

cheers thankyou peter i thankyou for your help i sure will get all that checked and hopefully be back on the tracks soon

Unread postby tony bogle » June 7th, 2012, 7:50 am


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

I've experienced similar probs with my 2.8 Patrol. Eventualy had head removed, (cracked) gasket evidance of by blow,
head replaced with NEW, replaced SIX exhaust valves and guides, refitted. Replaced water pump, thermostat, radiator(four core copper) after doing 6,000 K's, exhaust valve on No 6 cylinder jammed half open. Head again removed, discovered valve guide damaged beyond repair, advised caused by excessive build up of carbon on valve stem, which in turn was caused by OIL carbonising due to excessive high operating temps.
I must point out, that there were no signs of excessive temps indicated by guage or coolant.
Guides have now been replaced, (again with new under warranty) but Mech does not wish to reassemble until he finds out what's causing the excessive heat.
Vehicle has now been in shop for SIX WEEKS without any resolution.
Even contacted Allan Gray from Terrain Tamers for his advice, he spoke to my mechanic so dunno what, if anything was resolved.
Oh, fuel pump was sent to United Injection for analysis, came back OK, injectors sent off, came back OK.
Question;
Could this issue be caused by the COMPUTER ?
On a couple of occassions, driving over very rough corrugated roads, all my warning lights on dash came on intermittantly, I thought, signs of loose wiring connections, could this be the cause of wrong signals to PC ?

Unread postby itchyvet » June 14th, 2012, 6:35 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

ithchyvet,
When you replaced the thermostat did you check it's operation before fitting it to the engine?? Trust is a beautiful thing, I like to check first.
Also, although the water pump is new does it's vanes sit close enough to the rear wall of the pump to definitely pump sufficient water through out the engine to eliminate hot spots, although the overall temp hasn't indicated overtemps?
Does your vehicle have an EGR valve and entry into manifold in the backpart of the engine. Is it stuck open?
EGR control and computer control could be an issue too.
Does your mechanic check these things?

Four core radiators may work but, as the air flows from front to back it gets hotter and hotter, particularly at lower forward speeds, a situation not so good under heavy load as the rear cores at the top aren't getting cooled much at all. This will mean the water temps in the radiator from top to bottom also vary from front to back.
The actual Airflow amount through the radiator is what really matters as it is the item which removes the heat value from the water.
Two cores and good airflow will probably cool far better than the 4 core because the heat has suddenly been taken from the scene.
An increase in frontal area of the radiator, if possible, is a more efficient method of heat removal and this will ensure a reserve factor too. Although relative in size, motorcycle radiators are one core and of suitable area and they absolutely pump the heat out, of course fan assisted.


What oil are you using in the engine? Some oils aren't as good and turn to carbon more easily than others.
Some recent oils are formulated to minimize burn deposits in catalytic converters which are just after the exhaust valves.
Mobil Delvac MX ESP is one such oil.
Many popular, trendy, cheap oils may not cut the mustard.

Unread postby mydmax » June 14th, 2012, 7:29 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

Yeah, look at oils with great care. I'd expect a high powered, low cubes turbo diesel to be pretty sensitive to things like type, ash content and grade. The old 'lux 2.4 litre diesels had small galleries and needed religious 5000k oil changes to avoid clogging issues. EGR s the most appalling idea for diesels this decade, SWMBO's petrol Subaru needs an "upper engine cleaner" treatment every service, presumably to mop up all the EGR admitted carbon, too ad fiddling with the EGR will usually trigger an ECU fault.

Unread postby nilla60 » June 16th, 2012, 2:37 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

mydmax wrote:Does your vehicle have an EGR valve and entry into manifold in the backpart of the engine. Is it stuck open? EGR control and computer control could be an issue too.


I can't get my head around the EGR valve being able to keeps EGT temps down, well that's what someone wrote on Wiki under EGR valve anyway. I thought the EGR valve only opens when you back off to change gears etc to allow un-burnt fuel vapour to be re-burnt.

The OPs problem may be a combination of problems collectively or just one too. Even if it was simply a thermostat not opening, Id still check it all out. Flush, pressure test radiator/water jacket, check water pump fins/coolant flow, fan belt tension and so on. Was the vehicle without coolant/inhibitor for extended periods? Sometimes it's simple little things that we should look for first, then go onto other methods of diagnostics.

Shakes.

Unread postby Shaker4x4 » June 16th, 2012, 3:31 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

Shaker4x4
The idea of the EGR action is to admit exhaust to the engine so the combustion charge hasn't got so much energy in it and therefore, can't burn as hot, so keeps developed exhaust temps down a bit.
Unfortunately, the carbon admitted to the inlet can deposit carbon in a variety of places. Possibly this can add to the exhaust valve carbon and seizure of the valve in the guides.


In a petrol engines the EGR opens when high temps are being developed in the cylinders, the recirc of the ex gas dilutes the incoming charge and lowers exhaust temps so polluting gas production is limited.

mydmax

Unread postby mydmax » June 16th, 2012, 10:11 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

Shaker4x4 wrote:Was the vehicle without coolant/inhibitor for extended periods? Sometimes it's simple little things that we should look for first, then go onto other methods of diagnostics.

Shakes.


Just a silly question - is the purpose of the "coolant" not just to be a corrosion inhibitor??! In that it actually does little to "cool" the car??!
Cheers

EZ

Unread postby CoGRedeMptioN » June 18th, 2012, 10:30 am


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

Yep, good quality coolants will also raise the boiling temp of the water and improve the ability of the system to cool the engine significantly over what you'd get from running straight water. ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who, at some stage in their life, thought enough about their country, how great it is, and how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for an amount of 'Up to and including my Life!'

Unread postby Peter Aawen » June 18th, 2012, 6:24 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

thanks guys for your input into the problems i have with the patrol i have used a lot of the advice given ,i have changed all the hoses,flushed the radiator and i flushed it well i replaced the thermastat,and heater coils i did the lot it seemes to be the thermastat not opening at the right temp it sayes it opens at 74 degrees but it just was not happening the temp gauge was going up and down like a yoyo ,so i took it out and it is running fine now fingers crossed i took the old girl out for a 4by run to see how she went and it stayed nice and cool when i got it home and let it cool down over night to see if there was any pressure in the radiator to my joy there was none and all i needed was a cup of coolant to top it up, i dont know if running it without a thermastat will cause any major issues,but it seemed to do the trick thanks again guys

Unread postby tony bogle » June 25th, 2012, 9:29 am


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

I have always been told that the thermostat has a function to do and just taking it out will, most likely, cause damage to your engine as it will run colder for longer.
My Maverick is running @ half temperature when it should be running cooler (so I've been told). Apparently there are two thermostats available for patrols, one for 'Tropical' and one for standard environments. One opens sooner than the other and that would allow the motor to run cooler. I will find out this week when they go thru my cooling system if that is the problem with mine! It could be some other blockage ... from build up of gunk due to bad maintenance in the past.
Cheers

EZ

Unread postby CoGRedeMptioN » June 25th, 2012, 12:23 pm


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Re: 2.8 turbo diesel Patrol, does overheating mean head issu

Tony, don't run your vehicle without a properly functioning thermostat - they make sure the engine warms up properly, make sure that the coolant spends enough time in the radiator to transfer the heat out as it needs to, and basically keep the cooling system doing what it's designed to do. Take it out & the engine won't warm up properly to start with, leaving it running in a high wear state for longer; and when the engine does get under load the coolant can be racing thru the rad, not transferring enough heat out before it's back in the block & unable to cool properly, resulting in overheating and even more engine damage!!

CoGRed, don't rely on the OE temp gauge to be anything more than a rough guide - they are only vaguely accurate at the best of times and many are even 'factory damped' so they simply sit in the middle of the range unless the engine is off or already close to cooking!! As engine loads vary, the coolant temp WILL go up and down, so if your temp gauge doesn't do that then it's either so inaccurate as to be virtually useless or it's been damped so it doesn't reflect what's really going in the cooling system. If you are concerned about cooling system & engine temps (& you should be) then beg or borrow access to remote temp gauge & check the top& bottom of the rad as well as various places on the block; fit an aftermarket temp gauge that is more accurate than the OE gauge; or get the OE temp gauge fixed so it works properly - all of our Patrols have had a 30 min mod that removes the factory damping and they show the actual variations in temperature that DO occur as the load on the engine varies, ie the gauge goes up as you climb hills cos the engine is working harder & therefore is hotter, and it goes down as you coast down the other side cos the engine is not working so hard & getting lots of cooling from the air flowing thru the rad. ;)

PS, on the factory gauges, anywhere between the very bottom mark & the little mark 7/8ths of the way up towards the H mark is considered fine, so a needle sitting on half shouldn't be a worry - it's actually more of a worry that it just sits there without moving, cos it probably won't move until the engine overheats & that's generally too late to do anything about it. ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who, at some stage in their life, thought enough about their country, how great it is, and how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for an amount of 'Up to and including my Life!'

Unread postby Peter Aawen » June 25th, 2012, 1:56 pm


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