TD42 engine missfire

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sudso
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TD42 engine missfire

Unread post by sudso » July 6th, 2007, 6:04 pm

It only started doing it in the last few months and it only does it now and again under acceleration, more so when the engine isn't fully warmed up.

It's a GQ, TD42 with a DTS (MTQ) water cooled turbo.
The injector pump was reco'd about 3 years ago.

Any idea's?

cheers, sudso
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Peter Aawen
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Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 6th, 2007, 8:55 pm

Happens around 2500-3000 revs, and it seems to be a miss or two then picks up almost straight away? The revs are usually the same, but for some its at 2500rpm and for others its at 3200 rpm.

It is most likely not sufficient transfer pressure in the fuel pump! An easy fix from a Diesel injector pump tuner, but they do hafta take the end off the pump to adjust it, so it takes a while, maybe 1.5 hours. We found it on 9 out of 10 of the TD42's we had on the Snowy, but the fix was so simple, and it really is only because of the 'compromise' initial tuning set-up on the pumps.

I'd guess that when they did the reco on the pump, they set everything back to Nissan spec's, and it's been there ever since. If you aren't looking for it, it would be very easy to miss, until you start doing things like looking for the last Nm or Kw that you can get, coupled with playing with wheel sizes etc. If the vehicle was bog standard, and you didn't know it did it, you'dprobly miss it too.

Can't really think of anything else that it's likely to be, 'cos diesels can't 'MISS-FIRE' as such, and how would you lose compression only sometimes and only on one cylinder? Wouldn't have thought that the rings would be that mobile in the guides that they could spin around and release the compression intermittently. It's GOTTA be a fuel hiccough, and the transfer pressure thingy I KNOW does just that, so I'd be punting for your problem being that.

I take my Patrols over to Cooma Diesel (in Canberra) and it is well worth the trip! Get the diesel injectors and pumps checked over every 100,000 or so, and it usually works out about once a year or year & a bit. It has made significant improvements in the performance and fuel usage and the gains are backed by dyno runs before and after. If you want details, gimme a yell and I'll look them up!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

sudso
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Unread post by sudso » July 6th, 2007, 9:06 pm

Peter @ Aawen4x4 wrote:Happens around 2500-3000 revs, and it seems to be a miss or two then picks up almost straight away? Yep!

It is most likely not sufficient transfer pressure in the fuel pump! An easy fix from a Diesel injector pump tuner, but they do hafta take the end off the pump to adjust it, so it takes a while, maybe 1.5 hours. We found it on 9 out of 10 of the TD42's we had on the Snowy, but the fix was so simple, and it really is only because of the 'compromise' initial tuning set-up on the pumps.

I'd guess that when they did the reco on the pump, they set everything back to Nissan spec's, and it's been there ever since. If you aren't looking for it, it would be very easy to miss, until you start doing things like looking for the last Nm or Kw that you can get, coupled with playing with wheel sizes etc. If the vehicle was bog standard, and you didn't know it did it, you'dprobly miss it too. Not sure what they did with the tuning as the previous owner had it done at Adelaide Injector Service at Regency Pk.

Can't really think of anything else that it's likely to be, 'cos diesels can't 'MISS-FIRE' as such, and how would you lose compression only sometimes and only on one cylinder? Wouldn't have thought that the rings would be that mobile in the guides that they could spin around and release the compression intermittently. It's GOTTA be a fuel hiccough, and the transfer pressure thingy I KNOW does just that, so I'd be punting for your problem being that. Yeah I know they dont "missfire" but its the same feeling as when a petrol does it.

I take my Patrols over to Cooma Diesel (in Canberra) and it is well worth the trip! Get the diesel injectors and pumps checked over every 100,000 or so, and it usually works out about once a year or year & a bit. It has made significant improvements in the performance and fuel usage and the gains are backed by dyno runs before and after. If you want details, gimme a yell and I'll look them up!
Gee I dont know about going all the way to Canberra just to get the pump looked at. I havent any reason to go there at this stage. I might hit up the local Nissan mech and see what he can do.

And thanks for the info Peter! Knew I could count on ya!;)
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Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 6th, 2007, 9:17 pm

sudso wrote:Gee I dont know about going all the way to Canberra just to get the pump looked at. I havent any reason to go there at this stage. I might hit up the local Nissan mech and see what he can do.

And thanks for the info Peter! Knew I could count on ya!;)

I had a pump reco'd over here, but was not real happy with it, took it to a few of the local big name people and they all said it is absolutely spot on the Nissan Specs and we can't make it any better than that! Eventually bit the bullet and took it to Canberra and came home with a bunch more horses and a heap of extra Nm's and no cost in terms of fuel usage! It was pre turbo days, and the only time I've felt that sort of improvement since is when I've had a turbo fitted!! You'll get improvments by getting it done over here, you'll get the best improvements by taking it to Cooma Diesel (or Berrima Diesel!)

It IS worth the time and effort, and you won't need to do it too often, most would only ever need to do it once on their vehicles, they don't keep them much longer than 100,000km!!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

sudso
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Unread post by sudso » July 6th, 2007, 9:22 pm

I wonder if AIS at Regency tuned it to factory specs and not to suit the turbo, which was already fitted.
And why has it only started to do it:confused:
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Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 6th, 2007, 9:53 pm

Funny that you should write exactly what you did write (and when you wrote it too)!! The thought had crossed my mind and we were talking about the likelihood while you were posting! Spoooky, hey!

It may well be that it hasn't just started, but that it was doing it all along and while everything else was in top nick, it wasn't really noticeable. Now that everything has had a bit of a time to go off the boil, and the rest of the settings are just beginning to go off too, it's becoming more and more obvious! As other settings slide away from spec over time, and they do, then the hesitation will probably become worse and worse, until eventually it'll probly be undriveable!

I found one like that in the snow one year, couldn't get the revs up and over the hesitation, it stalled out every time!! The vehicle was only driveable at low revs, as soon as he tried for more speed/power/revs it hesitated .......... pause, two, three; and then died! The guy was not very impressed, and even less impressed when it took just a short while to fix it and make it Sooo much better!! He thought he had a NEW turbo, or at least an intercooler!

The guy at Murray Bridge Diesel is very good at what he does, no Dyno tho, and nowhere near the rep of Cooma Diesel or Berrima Diesel.
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

sudso
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Unread post by sudso » July 6th, 2007, 11:40 pm

Thanks Peter I'll have a chat to him.
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sudso
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Unread post by sudso » July 7th, 2007, 5:07 pm

Peter @ Aawen4x4 wrote:The guy at Murray Bridge Diesel is very good at what he does, no Dyno tho, and nowhere near the rep of Cooma Diesel or Berrima Diesel.
A mechanic mate down here reckons they do have a 4wd dyno now:confused: and he recommended them as well without knowing they already were.
Might take the GQ next trip to Adelaide and drop in there me thinks.
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Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 7th, 2007, 6:39 pm

Well that's a good thing then! They had been talking about getting the dyno, but last time I was there it was still in the "deciding to do it phase!!" They are good, and they are the only people in SA that I've ever heard recommended by Cooma Diesel; they actually let the Murray Bridge guys do locally some of their less critical hands on work with Injector pumps, and they don't have someone in every State, they only let that out to people who are good enough!

So if you are going anywhere here, that'd hafta be the top of the list!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

oondy
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Unread post by oondy » July 8th, 2007, 3:08 pm

hate to point out/ask the obvious, but have you changed your fuel filter recently?

when mine starts to hesitate under acceleration, thats when I know it's time to change the filter - problem solvered.

cheers

OONDY
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FERAL ERROL
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Unread post by FERAL ERROL » July 8th, 2007, 5:05 pm

here here, oondy
You dont buy a JEEP you build them,then you build them again,then again,then again,then again,then again,then again,then again,then again,then again,then they buy something decent.

sudso
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Unread post by sudso » July 8th, 2007, 6:11 pm

oondy wrote:hate to point out/ask the obvious, but have you changed your fuel filter recently?

when mine starts to hesitate under acceleration, thats when I know it's time to change the filter - problem solvered.

cheers

OONDY
How often should it be changed? every 5K, 10K, 20?
Is it a DIY job with a diesel? I havent changed it since I bought it and I've done about 8500 kays since.
I didnt ask the previous owner when he had it changed so maybe thats the problem and I run a bit of Chemtech diesel conditioner with each tank fill too. Maybe it's loosened up crap in the tank.
How much are the filters? Nissan or Bosch better?

cheers, dave
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Peter Aawen
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Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 8th, 2007, 8:48 pm

Normally you'd only change the fuel filter every 40,000km, with inspections of the water trap at every 10,000 km interval. You will find that the OE Fuel Filters are quite expensive, and for a small initial outlay, you can get an adaptor that will allow you to replace the OE Filter Element with a CAV style or even a Ryco Filter Elelment that cost significantly less. I generally recommend that if you are going remote, change the OE element for ne of the aforementioned cheaper versions and carry a few. Then change them with every oil filter change, or whenever you feel the slightest doubt about the quality of the fuel or the functioning of the filter!

With the OE Elements, when you need to drain the water trap, simply disconnect the wiring from the bottom of the filter, place a container or cloth underneath to catch the liquid draining, and loosen the drain valve until the stuff starts draining, often takes a fair few turns (5-10ish!) Try not to take it right off tho'! When all the discoloured fuel or water etc has drained, tighten it up and reconnect the wiring.

When you want to remove/replace the OE Element, do everything up to the end of 'etc had drained' then simply use a filter removal tool to spin the filter element off, swap the water trap fitting across to the new element if applicable (often not!) then fit the new element after lubricating the sealing ring with clean diesel. Tighten the element 2/3 of a turn beyond where the sealing ring first touches the sealing surface of the filter head. Fit the wiring into place, then bleed the fuel system.

But seriously look at the aftermarket replacement filter heads. They will filter to a cleaner level without impeding the fuel flow, they are significantly cheaper than the OE Elements, and they make you far less concerned about changing the elements at the slightest indication of there being any issue with the fuel cleanliness!

But I don't think the symptoms you are experiencing now are necessarily as a result of the filter being blocked. They are too much like the hesitation that almost every TD42 diesel either has or will get at some stage of its life.
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

sudso
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Joined: July 26th, 2005, 6:34 pm

Unread post by sudso » July 8th, 2007, 9:04 pm

Thanks Peter. Think I'll print out those instructions. Looks like a bit to remember! :)
The filter unit on mine is a Bosch unit, made in Korea.

Another Q while your here, the bleeder nipple next to the filter, thats to bleed the master cylinder yes?

BTW I started making these up. Thought I'd better start something until I get my own equipment ABN etc.
http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/f17/ ... ong-35932/
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oondy
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Unread post by oondy » July 8th, 2007, 9:23 pm

when we were at Ngarkat the other aussie day weekend Peter, when going up a certain hill, can't remember which one, I gave it a bit and sure enough got to about 3000RPM and it started coughing and spluttering and wouldn't rev any higher.

when I revved it in nuetral, no probs all the way to the redline but with a bit of load on it.....got to any where from 28-2500RPM and just wouldn't go any higher.

as soon as I got home from that trip that day I changed the filter - man it was a different car to drive......so now every time it starts to nose dive in power I replace the filter and it's back to the normal NA TD42 power levels.....if you could call it "power".

cheers

OONDY
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