Mud Map 2

Getting un-lost is half the fun
duck8175
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by duck8175 » May 30th, 2013, 5:58 pm

Thanks for your reply Mudmap.

From what I can understand the Mud Map 2 is the updated version of Mud Map HD. I just checked the App Store to see in the description to Mud Map HD as follows,

"Disclaimer:This app is here so existing customers of Mud Map HD can receive on going updates. For new customers buy Mud Mup 2."

I could not be more disappointed when reading this and I now feel very cheated!! I brought Mud Map HD for a upcoming trip to Cape your at the end of June to now find out that I spent $150 (which to me is alot of money) on a now outdated and possibly inaccurate mapping system.

The main reason for choosing Mup Map HD over Hema was due to your customer service and feed back on this forum. Yet now I feel that I have just wasted $150 as I now have to buy Mup Map 2 which I see as a trap being lead to believe that the change from VMS to Mud Map HD was the final change and that Mud Map HD would recieve all the updates or buy the Hema to feel secure on my trip.

I really don't know what to do. What should be an exciting trip to the Cape now has a very insecure feel about it.

boobook
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by boobook » May 30th, 2013, 7:35 pm

ianjon

No one actually said there are surveys on "every road, track, trail ... every 6 months", other than you of course. But ever heard of a mapping company called Hema? They update their map range at least once year.


You also raise a good point about the disclaimer. The one you quote is a general disclaimer and simply says that the company won't take responsibility for it's use. However, OSM specifically advises that it SHOULD NOT BE USED for the stated purposes, which would include 4wding in remote locations. Big difference indeed.
Last edited by boobook on May 30th, 2013, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MUDmap
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by MUDmap » May 30th, 2013, 7:54 pm

Duck,

We are commit to support and up date Mud Map HD. In-fact, a new update was made available 2 days ago (3.5.9) and has these improvements:

1. New map of Fraser Island.
2. Support for iPhone's larger screen.
3. Updated change map interface so it's easier to find maps you need.
4. Bunch of bug fixes, including an issue with SmartTOPO text size on retina devices.

The free update is available from the App Store
Powerful 4WD Navigation apps & maps | Mud Map 2 for iPhone & iPad | Mud Map Android app | www.mud-maps.com

duck8175
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Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 10:15 pm

Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by duck8175 » May 30th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Mud Map,

Mud Map HD may be maintained for a short while but as we know it would not be viable for you to continue to do so. None the less I have now been left an inferior product as your disclaimer states.

I believe it is only fair for current HD customers to recieve a free upgrade to Mud Map 2 as was given to VMS customers when the change was made to HD or the choice of a refund as I brought HD only months ago without being given the knowledge of this coming change.

Neat 60
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by Neat 60 » May 30th, 2013, 10:13 pm

Very good point Duck seems only fair - 100% agree with you mate. :thumb:

mydmax
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by mydmax » May 31st, 2013, 9:29 am

It seems the 4WD community are being sucked into being the creators of mapping for someone to then sell back to them.
4wd drivers want a product not a commitment.

The MUD MAP Project "learn how to get involved" is doing their job for them.

At the moment it appears to be too much MUD and not enough MAP.

What most people want is something which works and is reliable. Having hundreds more features than nearly everybody will ever use is confusing to most.
I have read most of the recent posts and it appears to be a work in progress mess.

I can understand why Duck is pretty upset.

mydmax

MUDmap
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by MUDmap » May 31st, 2013, 9:53 am

Duck, as promised, we are committed to the on going development of Mud Map HD. There are a bunch of new maps and features in the works at the moment.

The last update includes a new map of Fraser Island, iPhone 5 support, a new interface for changing maps and bug fixes. We invest a sizeable amount of time in developing these things, and a Mud Map HD user, you get this update for free.

At the end of the day it's very simple. Mud Map HD includes a bunch of features, you have selected to purchase the product based on these features. Major new features, which are significantly different are the result of countless hours of engineering. We are not going to give them away and work for free. If you need these features, you have the option to buy Mud Map 2. At the end of the day, you have access to what you paid for with the promise of on going support, improvements and bug fixes.
Powerful 4WD Navigation apps & maps | Mud Map 2 for iPhone & iPad | Mud Map Android app | www.mud-maps.com

ianjon
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Joined: January 16th, 2013, 1:05 pm

Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by ianjon » May 31st, 2013, 2:16 pm

Fact: hema updates a hand full of products in their range every year, not every product in the range. As I have said previously, update cycles appear to be 2-5 years.

If you have a close look, hema do not survey majority of the tracks, as illustrated by purple and red colours where:

Purple = GPS plotted roads and tracks. These roads and track were accurately plotted with a GPS and computer during field work.

Red = This road and track info has been compiled from GeoScience 250K data and other sources. The exact location and/or condition of these roads and tracks must be therefor treated with caution.

If you look at the high country maps, majority of tracks are red, not surveyed. Does this make it useless and dangerous? I my opinion no.

I personally prefer the spatial vision / rooftop maps in this region due to the high level detail, but the hema map is still a good map.

I've been involved with OSM for many years and have made lots of contributions to the database. From first hand experience, I can tell you that hema maps have accuracy issues too. I'm not going to list them here, I don't believe in bad mouthing.

When i heard about mud map 2, i was excited. It provided me with access to osm data offline. I think what mud map is doing is revolutionary. The open movement is not a fad, individuals now have access to technology to make differences and that's a good thing.

duck8175
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Joined: July 2nd, 2011, 10:15 pm

Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by duck8175 » May 31st, 2013, 4:50 pm

MudMap,

As you no doubt can see there is a lot of negativity towards the App and now my situation. Only instead of taking this information on you are defending your actions. A common thing in business today but I don't believe it is a good way to gain respect or confidence in your potential and current customers. Two things I believe would be very important to a mapping company. It is sad to see customer service going this way in the world today.

I understand the work that must go into a app and the need for change. But I do not believe that current customers should be disadvantaged because of this. Hema have updates to their maps as well but have not created a new app to force their customer to buy if they want the latest technology.

The only reason I can see you creating Mud Map 2 and leaving the following Disclaimer "This app is here so existing customers of Mud Map HD can receive on going updates. For new customers buy Mud Mup 2."
Is because of the faults within Mud Map HD or why else would you not have to two so call "Different" apps for sale on the app store!?! This leaves me left with a product in which I now have no confidence in and a strong cheated feeling towards Mud Map.
Last edited by Peter Aawen on June 11th, 2013, 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed reference to personal business dealings from post.

boobook
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by boobook » June 11th, 2013, 7:40 am

Mudmap, I am curious about how you added the tracks I mentioned so quickly. In reading the terms of OSM, you should not copy other maps such as HEMA, Google, BIng etc without the explicit written permission of the copyright holder.

It specifically says that any corrections should be from GPS tracks or local knowledge. But it was clear from the conversation above that there was little local knowledge and yet they were magically fixed over night. That sounds like the corrections were copied from other maps. Surely no one drove all those tracks overnight, that would be impossible.

How can anyone who buys your maps be assured that they will not be sued by Google , Vicmap or Hema. You are probably aware that Vicmap has sued others for stealing their mapping without paying for it.

If someone buys your product do you guarantee that they will not be sued? And what actions do you take as an agent for users changing your "the project" that the data has not been stolen? As a user I would want a written guarantee that I would not be sued for breach of copyright if I use your products. Goggle are vicious litigators, and have the tools to detect copies of things.

Edit (after site restored) having read your "Terms of Service" that users need to agree that you are not liable if they get sued. EVEN IF YOU KNOW THAT THEIR MAPS HAVE BEEN COPIED ( sections 15.1A and 15.3)

http://www.mud-maps.com/termsofservice/

So if someone copies from another map, which appears to have happened, then the copyright holder sues other users, then you claim that you are not liable to support your customers.

You can argue that these are similar to normal clauses, but what processes do you put in place to ensure your customers won't be sued and then you walk away? Normally a map provider generates the content which gives the users some assurance and control that the data has been generated properly and legally.

It does appear that your customers are exposed to possible legal action just because then agree to your terms and use the product.

Can you comment?

ThomasCat
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Joined: June 7th, 2013, 10:21 am
Location: Melbourne, VIC

Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by ThomasCat » June 12th, 2013, 10:34 am

Just came across this when I was searching for "4WD gone wrong" on google image and it might be related to people complaining about this app as a few mates of mine have this and aren't too happy about them now either, luckily I didn't get it

a heap of negative review here

http://www.badappreviews.com/iosapps/53 ... -australia

gibbo1
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by gibbo1 » July 8th, 2013, 2:44 pm

Yes, I have spent way too much money on apps... but I have bought Mud Map HD, Mud Map 2 and Hema for iPad. (And have tried demos of Memory Map.)

Mud Map have an excellent product. Straight up, it's graphics engine runs far superior to the competition - smooth scrolling, etc.

Reading in between the lines, my guess is that the SmartTopo licensing (in Mud Map HD) was costing MM too much, so they jumped ship to OSM. As a user of Mud Map HD, I can say that the usefulness of SmartTopo vector maps was limited. I am excited at the prospect of OSM - especially as end users start reviewing campsites, tracks, uploading photos, etc.

I do understand the logic that Booboo is presenting, and a well informed disclaimer makes sense. The reality is though, that I find myself using the rastor maps mostly (Westprint, Back Country - and Hema if you have imported them). And then 'zooming in' to the OSM to see if there is any further detail/information when looking for a campsite, etc. So I am totally comfortable with a 'maturing' set of maps being offered in the same app as the 'reliable' and published rastor maps. The best of both worlds.

MM really could have/should have handled the transition from MM HD to MM2 better. If they 'needed' to drop SmartTopo, they should have provided a free upgrade to MM2 for it's users as they did when they went from VMS to MM HD. OR AT LEAST a map store credit.

MUDmap
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by MUDmap » July 18th, 2013, 12:50 pm

Gibbo1, out of interest, which of these apps would be your most used now and why?
Powerful 4WD Navigation apps & maps | Mud Map 2 for iPhone & iPad | Mud Map Android app | www.mud-maps.com

gibbo1
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by gibbo1 » July 18th, 2013, 2:04 pm

I definitely use Mud Map 2 the most.... why?

• The first reason came with the original release of Mud Map - the smoothest scrolling map app. And it continues to be the best in that regard.
• Next reason, I have invested in a lot of additional maps in the Mud Map store
• And now with Mud Map 2, the ease of sharing tracks and the importing of routes (and POIs). Just on the weekend, while airing up the tires after a run, I emailed the boys the track we just completed and shared it on FaceBook. The next day, another mate took the FaceBook post and followed the same track! Awesome!
• The layout of the app is the nicest and most functional (and while not perfect, the most stable).
• Finally, I have imported Hema maps into it (IMO Mud Maps weakness used to be the absence of Hema maps, it's nice to have this work around now). Ironically, Hema Maps load and scroll better than on their own app.

I have requested Mud Map to officially sell the Hema Maps on their store. They said they'd be happy to but Hema won't come to the party. I contacted Hema who confirmed this by saying they wish to keep Memory Map as their mobile app partner. It is a real shame they are not willing to license their maps to Mud Map aswell.

MUDmap
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Re: Mud Map 2

Unread post by MUDmap » July 18th, 2013, 4:35 pm

Thanks for sharing mate, hearing feedback like this is great and motivates us to make it even better. We have heaps of exciting ideas and will do our best to turn them into reality as soon as possible.
Powerful 4WD Navigation apps & maps | Mud Map 2 for iPhone & iPad | Mud Map Android app | www.mud-maps.com

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