need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

bluecolorado
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need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by bluecolorado » June 15th, 2015, 5:29 pm

hey all, need some help with a problem ive got
got a 2inch lift in the 2011 collie about 2 weeks ago, lovells all round
it already had air bags in the rear
the guy said in about 1000km it will settle and loosen up abit, its rock hard and still is rock hard
hit bumps on the hwy and its like been kicked in the kidneys

so i took it in to see what they think is wrong, he drove it and straight up said its way too hard and shouldnt be like that.
His now saying to take the air bags out and that will make it better, they have 5 psi in them atm,
the problem is i dont think its the air bags, i dont really want them removed.

has anyone else had this problem?
is it more the spring itself, maybe he ordered the wrong one iunno
im new to 4x4ing so i wouldnt mind some suggestions and help on this one, would be awesome
cheers

typhoeus
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by typhoeus » June 15th, 2015, 9:30 pm

did the do the shocks as well?

Red04VXE
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by Red04VXE » June 16th, 2015, 5:55 am

Sounds like to high load rated?
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bluecolorado
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by bluecolorado » June 16th, 2015, 5:58 pm

yeah shocks and everything was a complete kit by lovells
what do you mean by high load rated? the guy at the work shop thinks the leaf isnt even coming into play and when i hit bumps its just bouncing off the bags, his saying to fix this we need to take them out, so the leaf can do what its made to do

typhoeus
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by typhoeus » June 16th, 2015, 7:01 pm

well, you have to start the process of elimination somewhere, so pull the bags and try it. how many leaves in the pack, and how many were in the old ones? are the new leaves substantially thicker than the old? chuck a hundred or so pavers ( or something else heavy) in the back and see how/if it settles down

dod28
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by dod28 » June 16th, 2015, 8:15 pm

Have you got a bull bar and tow bar? Get someone to jump up and down on them while you look underneath and see if you can spot anything out of the ordinary.
Have you double checked that you really do have only 5 PSI in the air bags?

M543
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by M543 » June 16th, 2015, 8:22 pm

bluecolorado wrote: what do you mean by high load rated?
The last time I looked at Lovell's web site was a couple of years ago and I think from memory they did say something about their springs being a higher rate than standard. The "rate" is just a measure of how far the spring will compress with a certain load on it. They are often rated in pounds but metric figures may be in use now.

A 200 lb spring for example will compress 1 inch when a 200 lb load is placed on it. If you put another 200 lbs on it, it will go down another inch. A third 200 lbs will take it down another inch. This means you now have 600 lbs on it and it has compressed 3 inches.

A spring like that is known as a linear spring and it compresses in proportion to the load i.e double the load and you double the compression. A higher rate spring will not compress as much under the same load and will give you a harder ride on an empty or lightly loaded car.
the guy at the work shop thinks the leaf isnt even coming into play and when i hit bumps its just bouncing off the bags,
That is certainly possible but it is hard to say what they will do with only 5 psi pressure. They can easily become very destructive though with higher pressures. The difference is they are exponential springs, not linear springs. You can place a certain amount of weight on them and they will compress a certain amount. If you add the same weight again they will not compress the same amount, it will be less. If you add the same weight a third time, they will compress even less than the second time. They just keep getting progressively harder and will be like rocks by the time they around 60 to 70% compressed. They also need a shock absorber that has been designed to work with them, not one designed for linear springs.

Your original bump rubbers are also exponential springs so an air bag is just like an oversize bump rubber. They are fine when the whole suspension has been designed around them by factory engineers but they have caused far more than their share of problems in aftermarket conversions.

I would start by taking them out like Lovells suggested and go from there. I would not have installed them with a linear spring suspension in the first place.

You might find this article useful if you have a heavily loaded car, particularly one with a lot of weight on its rear end. http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive/1504/bent-utes/

Corindi
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by Corindi » June 16th, 2015, 8:41 pm

Great answer M543
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Lookfar
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by Lookfar » August 28th, 2015, 9:59 pm

Does it have a torsion bar front end? It may have been wound up to far, and it is hard up on the top bump stop.

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Peter Aawen
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Re: need help! rock hard suspension after 2inch lift

Unread post by Peter Aawen » August 28th, 2015, 10:32 pm

bluecolorado wrote:......his saying to fix this we need to take them out, so the leaf can do what its made to do
Like others have explained in detail earlier, that's one of the issues with those 'helper' air bags, effectively once they start compressing at all they work by stopping your springs from working properly.... & if you aren't carrying enough load to make that worthwhile, you now know first hand the very least of the bad things that can do to your vehicle/ride!! And the 'bad things' only get worse from there on in!! :eek:

Me, I'd be listening to the tech; he's given you a perfectly valid resolution to your ride issue & explained why he thinks it'll work..... but hey, if you don't mind the ride or the potential for a broken chassis, leave 'em there - after all, it is your vehicle, not his or anyone else's! ;)
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