Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Midwester
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Midwester » June 21st, 2014, 6:10 pm

madaz2012 wrote:yep been there done that, I had one do it to me about 10months ago after doing a service on it, about 3-4 others I know of in town that have done it..

that's what that humming noise is at idle when they are hot at times, the oil pump changing pitch,

obviously a one way valve of some description probably should have been used to stop the oil running back like that..
Gday Mazda,
I have a 2013 BT which has just had its 1st 10k svc and is now occasionally making the hum when hot at idle. Does this mean the pumps lost its prime? Or is the noise normal. It wasn't making the noise prior to its first svc and reading this has me worried that damage has been done. I have no lights on the dash indication low oil pressure so i'm reasonably confidant some oil is circulating.
Cheers mate

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » June 21st, 2014, 6:35 pm

Midwester
A a rough guess I would think if it is going to make the noise it will make more noise after a service as the slow idle speed is sucking in thicker/better quality oil than what was drained out.
The vane pump will create suction and delivery pulses in the oil stream and it possibly makes some harmonic noise while doing that. at high speeds the harmonic noise and the pump pulse frequency will be far high.

PS if you don't have oil pressure, your engine won't last very long at all. Just a short amount of time. Depending on the revs 1 maybe 2 mins. so if it is still running after 10 min you probably have oil pressure.

These pumps are designed to only pump as much as is needed ( variable flow rate) to have sufficient pressure for operation. No excess pressure or relief valve is there or happening as in most other engines.

Midwester
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Midwester » June 22nd, 2014, 1:18 pm

Thanks Mydmax,
The hum does sounds like cavitation/harmonic noise so i think your on the money, it is really noticable after it heats up but is quiet when cold. Interestingly, I dropped the oil at 5k myself and had no change to engine noise. Maybe the recommended fully syn Penrite 5w 30 makes a difference to the 5w 40 Halvoline the dealership used? Weird, I think i'll drop into the dealership anyway and see what they reckon.
Thanks mate

Scotty_56
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Scotty_56 » June 27th, 2014, 7:35 pm

Midwester

Have a read of this topic on the Ranger Forum.

http://newranger.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3424

JOK3R
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by JOK3R » August 12th, 2014, 7:59 pm

Hi all, just curious has anyone had a confirmed issue with these oil pumps. I was really keen on purchasing one of these new rangers but from what i've read it almost has me rethinking and going for a dmax.
2014 LS-U, Rhino liner, ARB canopy.

GBC
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by GBC » August 14th, 2014, 12:49 pm

Go back through the pages and find any reference - these things have a good few years under their belts now and are proving to do the business. I personally know of two - over 200 000 kms each and left to sit idling for 8 hours at a time so I'll forgive them. Those are fleet units that get piss and pickhandles flogged out of them. You won't go wrong with a dmax, I like them, but I wouldn't discount a ranger over this - simply not enough issues to add up.

JOK3R
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by JOK3R » August 14th, 2014, 7:21 pm

thanks for the reply mate, walked out of Isuzu today with an auto LS-U with arb canopy, rhino liner, bonnet protector and 4 x window weather shields on order for the same price as a bog stock XLS
2014 LS-U, Rhino liner, ARB canopy.

GBC
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by GBC » August 15th, 2014, 5:25 am

You shouldn't have any regrets. They are a great choice of ute at the moment, especially when you start looking at $$. We bought two 3.2 auto px xl twin cab 4x4's with silver fleet. Bullbar, towbar, canopy, tint, canvas covers and floor mats and couldn't do any better than $54k each on the road which leaves plenty of other options to look at. We tow big weight though and that is what the 3.2 does well.

fishwenican
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by fishwenican » August 16th, 2014, 4:35 pm

I honestly can't see how letting it drain for more than 10 mins would be an issue
much the same as having your car sitting for a day or more so extended periods.
Oil would drain from the pump anyway....through this magical thing called gravity.
Storm in a tea cup over reaction again like most alleged issues.
The ranger is undoubtedly the best ute on the market at the moment.
Two years and I still lurve driving mine.

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » August 16th, 2014, 5:35 pm

fishwenican
It is obvious you haven't been affected by the oil pump issue or you would be a believer and not a doubter.
The people who have had their engine bearings ruined by no prime of the pump and the ones who have had a new pump fitted to their Rangers probably would try and persuade you otherwise.

It is a known and documented problem in the companies who supply these vehicles. It isn't an alleged issue at all.
These pumps are Vane pumps and not Gear pumps which as common in most engines. Because of their design they have no way of ensuring the vanes are out in the pump position after a long drain time. Therein lies the problem if it find you.

To pass it off as not valid isn't wise, to be warned and informed is far better.

fishwenican
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by fishwenican » August 16th, 2014, 6:41 pm

Mydmax......I am not.....NOT passing it off as not valid.
My point....whole point is the bulletin states no let drain for more than 10 mins.
What happens to the oil when the car has been standing for more than 10 mins.
It drains....
The variability of potential issues in this issue doesn't make sense.
I am also sure there are NOT many cases that I can find directly affected from this said issue.
If it was as wide and terrifying as you make it seem I'm sure it would be a recall level issue.
Actually I have only read in all the forums one or two.
Seems more so that the actual cases are the old I know someone who knows a bloke.
Even though ford have released a warning bulletin does the said issue actually exist.
I have mine serviced at two different places who also can not understand how this would be a specific issue.
If mine fails I will certainly be wanting answers.
I'm just looking at it from a logical view....

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » August 16th, 2014, 7:05 pm

It is only an issue when the vane pump refuses to pump oil. When is that? The reason it has been mentioned is not to be terrified of it, but merely aware of the possibility of it happening.

For the ones who know and take some precautions then = no problems.
For the unknowing who have it lose prime the normal thing most people do is rev it to get it to suck, which it won't, so the high revs and no oil isn't what engine bearing surfaces really enjoy.
If they know NOT to REV it IF it happens and get help then the posts have saved them from a costly experience.
Just because you have had no trouble is irrelevant.
PS Not all such cases are necessarily posted on the internet. The internet isn't the be all and end all which some are trained to regard it as.

fishwenican
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by fishwenican » August 16th, 2014, 7:40 pm

Hmmmmmm the internet......the centre of knowledge.
Those symptoms are not proven and certainly not common. From my research oil pump and priming issues with this ranger oil draining is rare. Would looooove to know specific numbers of failures which have proven to be from excessive oil draining time
Lets go back to the initial point of my comment which has NOT been answered ...
Why wouldn't the same failure be duplicated from a car not being driven for more than ten minutes. Due to the oil draining from the oil pump
.still waiting.......dmax ....?????

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » August 16th, 2014, 9:08 pm

We would all like to know the rate of problems this design has had, but it doesn't matter if you know the failure rate, it doesn't change anything.
Who knows why one engine will be affected and another not affected, some may tolerate all an night drain and some not a long time at all. We will never know how the 10minute time frame came to be, but it initially was mentioned by the companies. I suppose it is as an insurance factor..
The fact it isn't common may mean we don't hear of the number of times it happens.
It doesn't matter if it is rare for it to happen, if it happens to you then how rare it is isn't a factor you will be concerned with.

You seem to have missed the point that the pump is under water/oil when the sump is full and the oil doesn't drain out of it.
It does drain out of it when the oil has been drained from the sump. If sufficient oil drains/disappears from inside the vane pump they are reputed to NOT self prime, hence the problem if it happens.
It shouldn't be compared with a gear pump and it's ability to suck oil ie. create negative pressure so that they self prime, a vane pump with it's vanes retracted and no oil in it to hold the vanes out, simply won't create anything except noise perhaps.

Since you mentioned logic. If it didn't happen then we wouldn't become aware of it, would we?

Itsbrung
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Itsbrung » August 17th, 2014, 12:15 pm

A vane pump does not need priming as soon as it rotates vanes pop out, centrifugal force, when vanes don't work is usually due to damaged vanes or damaged slots that the vanes sit in. So I would suggest the few failures could be due to this.

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