Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

GBC
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Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by GBC » January 23rd, 2014, 5:37 am

For those of you doing your own servicing, this link is doing the rounds of other forums.

http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=05b ... 52270a5438

You'll need to scroll down to the Technical Bulletin, but it's worth the effort.

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning

Unread post by mydmax » January 23rd, 2014, 7:55 am

What a brilliant design of engine, you don't even have to drive it to have a failure.

The self destruction feature is actually built in.

Now with all the technology in the fuel system and the autogearbox you can have a vehicle which which may not have an engine to drive it.
A chain drive oil pump? that too is going back to other designs which destroyed engine cos the chain broke.

I wonder what the effect on resale value will be???

Just solved the problem! NEVER change the oil. Oh bugger, dealers have been doing that for a long time so already have it covered.

GBC
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Re: Oil change warning

Unread post by GBC » January 23rd, 2014, 1:47 pm

My question is 'how'd they get the oil in there in the first place?'

chicken - egg???

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » January 23rd, 2014, 2:52 pm

Maybe there is a factory assembly gel/FIK liquid which doesn't drop out and it begins the one and only prime.

ADZAM that's a backward Mazda. The design engineering competition has been won and they get their bonus. Where is the payoff for customers??

madaz2012
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by madaz2012 » January 23rd, 2014, 3:07 pm

yep been there done that, I had one do it to me about 10months ago after doing a service on it, about 3-4 others I know of in town that have done it..

that's what that humming noise is at idle when they are hot at times, the oil pump changing pitch,

obviously a one way valve of some description probably should have been used to stop the oil running back like that..

Sparkys_2
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Sparkys_2 » January 23rd, 2014, 3:32 pm

Jeepers! I wonder how many engines were destroyed before they twigged onto that!

madaz2012
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by madaz2012 » January 23rd, 2014, 8:24 pm

any decent mechanic should be keeping an eye on the oil pressure light on first start after an oil change, if it dosnt go out after about 5 seconds.... its not going to go...

typhoeus
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by typhoeus » January 23rd, 2014, 9:05 pm

One would think that If the pump is submerged in oil in the bottom of the sump, then any air trapped will attempt to escape at the highest point. Oil is not water and some always stays in the pump, . . unless its drained for hours maybe..so you wouldn't think priming should be an issue. new oil will enter through the strainer and pressurise the air trapped. soon as those vanes turn, enough oil will enter to seal them and you will have pressure. No one with more than half a brain will rev the engine with the oil light on. . . . . then of course, there is planned obsolescence. . . .!

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » January 23rd, 2014, 9:37 pm

typhoeus
It seems the new oil doesn't get into the pump and it won't reprime. You would think it should but it doesn't.

Some vane pumps won't pick up because the vanes retract into the slot of the rotor. It is the output pressure under the inner edge of the vanes which pushes it out so it can begin to create a vacuum to suck oil. Maybe the fix is to air pressurize the gallery so the pump vanes pop out and do their job then it will begin to deliver.

Anyone tried that? Just fit a car tyre valve to a plug in the gallery. I would give it a try and the oil pressure might start up again and oil won't get out the schrader valve.



Thinking I was smart, I tried to use a vane ac compressor to pump oil. It wouldn't look at it and unless I can get the vanes to pop out it won't work. Tried rotating it at slow and fast speeds and no go.

madaz2012
How do they get them primed again? or do they just fit a new engine complete with oil.

madaz2012
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by madaz2012 » January 23rd, 2014, 9:49 pm

well, i done as followed,

-back fed oil through the filter housing.... no dice,
-pulled the oil pressure sender out, and started..... no dice,
-back fed oil through the oil sender hole..... no dice
-started engine and back fed oil into oil sender...... still no dice... surprisingly

ended up getting towed to mazda then as this was the first one for them,

they fitted a new oil pump and all has been good, done another service since on that ute and has been fine...

has been said its possible putting back arms of a 2 post under chassis and jacking the back of the ute up to push the oil up around the front of the motor

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » January 23rd, 2014, 10:27 pm

So with a high lift jack under the towbar? Just chock the front wheels and have the rears 2 foot of the deck maybe?

Anyone tried overfilling them by a few litres and then drain off the excess?

ozzhog
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by ozzhog » May 2nd, 2014, 6:37 pm

Sounds like crap to me.

mydmax
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by mydmax » May 4th, 2014, 7:50 pm

Ozzhog
That crap is to get/initiate a head of oil above the strainer and so the oil can seep into the vane chambers of the pump and therefore create a pressure on the vane inner ends so they will push out, seal and then begin drawing in oil and pumping oil when the engine is started.

It is very similar to vane pumps which absolutely rely on vane end pressure to make them operate. There are oil galleries especially made in the casings of the vane pumps to allow oil and pressure to keep pushing the vanes outward so they do pump.

With NO oil there is no way the vanes get pushed outwards and therefore they are just something running around in a big hole.
So, what may seem to be crap to you may infact be quite a good fix, it all depends on whether or not you know how a vane pump actually operates. To some it is rubbish, if the bum up position fills the pump then it is good.
Would you just rev it to get pressure? If you do, goodbye engine bearings, they rely on oil which they can't get because the prime has been lost.

A question. Why is a vane power steering pump reservoir always above the pump? So it doesn't lose prime.
There are many designs of vane pump.
Mazda uses THAT system for some reason. Stupid way to make it operate.
As the pumps wear a bit they will get worse and lose their action in a shorter space of time.

Mazda and Ford have already replaced a number of these oil pumps. How many new vehicles do you know of which require a new oil pump under 200,000km?

MasterInnovator
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » May 4th, 2014, 8:07 pm

so what happens if you loose the sump plug??? Suppose you'd get some poor old apprentice to hold his finger over the drain hole while a fellow worker goes to the local parts store...or worse still make himg stand there for a week while waiting on one after being order...

Gimp4930
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Re: Oil change warning! Do not drain too long!

Unread post by Gimp4930 » June 7th, 2014, 1:13 pm

So a system designed to be drained of oil is fitted with a non self priming pump?
I would have thought this is pretty basic engineering, One more reason I will be buying an Isuzu and not the Ford.
Do or do not, there is no try YODA

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