How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed?

yokel
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How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed?

Unread post by yokel » December 8th, 2013, 1:00 pm

Has anyone wired in their own Tekonsha P3 into the BT-50?

I've also been told that I need to run the positive from the battery to Pin 2 of the trailer plug, to suit a trailer with a hydrastar hydraulic brake actuator on it.

Schematic here http://www.hydrastar.com.au/LinkClick.a ... &tabid=197

Anyone done anything similar...if so how hard was it and what do I need to think about?

yokel
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by yokel » December 9th, 2013, 7:25 pm

I went to Mazda this afternoon to ask for a wiring diagram for fitting the brake controller, and was told that they couldnt give me that info because it was "Mazda IP". When I said how was I supposed to fit the controller, I was told go to an Auto electrician. I challenged them and said 1) How is the Auto electrician supposed to know how to wire it up, if you cant give me the wiring diagram. The dealership said " go to this specific auto electrician".... 2) If you wont give me the diagram to fit the brake controller wont I run the risk of killing the canbus/computer. The guy at the dealership just shrugged his shoulders and referred me again to the the auto electrician.

Was I being unreasonable, or should I be able to get this info to make my own choice as to who fits it?

mnpalmer
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by mnpalmer » December 10th, 2013, 9:29 am

They are not too difficult to install, I fitted a different model Tekonsha brake controller to mine. I took the power straight from the battery via a circuit breaker and ran two wires down to the trailer plug. One is the blue wire to supply power to the brakes and the second was to the brake light pin on the trailer connector. I was told to connect there and not from anywhere else as a voltage change (brake lights) is expected at the trailer connector. I also used the trailer connector for the reverse wire pick up for my reverse camera.
I was little concerned initially with the electrics on this vehicle but a little research and a common sense approach makes these very easy to work on. Also remember there is a rubber grommet under each front seat that makes getting wiring into the cabin dead easy.

mydmax
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by mydmax » December 10th, 2013, 10:30 am

yokel
Mazda IP must stand for Idiot Person. A dealer who fits brake controllers for customers in the specs for supply of a new vehicle won't tell you the wire colour or position location? "ADZAM relaed" is just a plain backward view of it .
Most dealers will help with your problems and want you as a continued customer into the future, this one is already too rich and doesn't need your business. He is obviously in bed with the auto elect too.
The delayer doesn't deserve to be in business with an attitude like that because he definitely doesn't care about you, his source of income. Fairly typical of the Motor Trade, they are superior and you are not.

I hope it isn't the dealer who sold you the vehicle.
It is entirely reasonable to ask such a thing and also receive a civilized and helpful answer. After all is is extremely easy for them.
Have a look at new or used BT50 on their lot and see if any have a controller fitted, If so, inspect it. You are just looking after all. You may want to buy another BT50 if they ask. Play them at their own game.

There are many people on here who have one connected and they can let you know, or find a vehicle and owner who has a controller fitted and ask if you can look under the dash for 5 seconds. Digital camera is handy.

With the engine off and using a multimeter you can probe the plug to find which is already 12v (with engine off of course) and the wire pin which becomes 12v when the pedal is pushed is the one you want. I haven't done it on a BT50 but many times on others.

Which location are you. A forum member might be close and all can be solved without the need for Porcupine people.

Chevie82
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by Chevie82 » December 11th, 2013, 1:10 pm

I do enjoy reading when mydmax responds :-)

parkosbt50
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by parkosbt50 » December 18th, 2013, 10:31 pm

why not use an auto electrician they after all are far more qualified than the monkeys at the dealership to deal with an install like this one. by the way don't just hook it up to the wire coming from the brake switch as @mydmax said will cause all sorts of dramas. I know this because I'm an Auto electrician haha. use a relay to take the load off the trigger wire coming from the brakes unless picking up from the trailer plug. the rest wire as per the instructions. have used this method on many canbus vehicles bt-50/ranger included

sorry if this came across as a rant but hey we gotta make a quid too, and i firmly believe in if you were going to build a house would you get a chef to do it? get the right person for the job.

mydmax
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by mydmax » December 18th, 2013, 11:03 pm

parkosbt50
A few questions and comments.
Can you explain how the connection at the stop light switch is different to connecting to the same wire in the trailer plug?????

I can see the use of a relay will sort of isolate the switch from the wire to the brake controller but it does add a small current load and also introduces a back EMF voltage into the wires at the stop light switch which I consider the CAN BUS system wouldn't like.
Does the relay take the load of the trigger wire OR the stop light switch "OUT" terminal? not sure what you mean there.

Exactly how much current is supplied through that wire IF connected directly??? I have never measured it but believe to be only a voltage reference level and not an actual current flow so a CAN BUS system shouldn't be worried or have I missed something.

Cheers
mydmax

voluum
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by voluum » December 19th, 2013, 7:33 am

Official Mazda brake controller instructions -

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/_phpBB/down ... &mode=view

The difference between the stop light switch output at the brake switch and the trailer plug is that the brake switch is a CANBUS signal input the BCM, the trailer plug is the 12v switched output from the BCM.

Using either a relay or taking the brake input from the trailer plug are both fine. My recommendation to prevent any backfeed into the CANBUS circuit would be to use a diode protected relay. The load from the relay coil is negligable compared to say 4 x 21 watt brake light globes.

CANBUS is pretty involved compared to previous methods of vehicle electrical control systems, and to complicated to get into in this post, but if you want some reading on how CANBUS works, check this out;

http://www.dgtech.com/images/primer.pdf

Long story short, never connect any 12v accessory directly into a CANBUS circuit!
2012 BT-50 GT with plenty of bits fitted.

parkosbt50
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by parkosbt50 » December 29th, 2013, 8:49 pm

hit the nail on the head @voluum

parkosbt50
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by parkosbt50 » December 29th, 2013, 8:54 pm

and also just for everyones info if led tail lights are fitted to one of these vehicles load resistors must be used on all circuits not just the indicators. Had a couple of bt-50's get cruise control problems.

Moose63
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by Moose63 » December 30th, 2013, 7:52 am

I have a Tekonsha Primus IQ to fit to a 2013 BT-50 GT DualCab. After reading about the brake-trigger/relay issue, I contacted Tekonsha tech assistance to see what current the Primus draws from the brake circuit on the red wire – the answer was 1 mA. If a relay was fitted, the primary coil of 100-300 ohms would draw 40-120 mA from the brake switch and there would still be some residual back-EMF, even with diode-resistor protected relay.

So I am wondering whether Mazda are more concerned about the voltage/current being fed back into the CANBUS circuit when the manual brake switch on the brake controller is activated. If a relay is fitted and the red controller wire is connected to the normally-open relay contacts, then this signal would go nowhere when the manual brake switch is operated. This would protect the CANBUS circuit from input voltage, but the down-side would be that the vehicle/trailer brake lights would not activate nor would the cruise-control be cancelled when using the manual brake switch.

I am thinking that using a trigger wire from the trailer plug as per the above posts is the better option – it keeps the controller isolated from CANBUS and the trailer brake lights will activate when the manual switch is activated. I don’t think the cruise control is an issue as the only time you should want to use manual braking is to control sway (you want the vehicle still under power) or downhill under engine braking (cruise wouldn’t be on anyway). Thoughts?

South
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Re: How hard to fit a Tekonsha P3 to my BT-50? What's needed

Unread post by South » January 2nd, 2014, 6:21 pm

Ford advise for the automatic, you should take directly from the brake pedal switch, the maximum load increase is to be no greater than 1A.

This is how I wired mine up yesterday, no relay either. Works like a charm.

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