Don't you dare work on your own car...

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whizzo
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by whizzo » December 17th, 2013, 12:37 pm

Goldylux mate...don't blame ebay for killing your business...it will only be a small factor.

The problem that so many trade businesses face now is that things are not designed to be repaired or expected to be repaired.

Back in the day of the copper radiator...they lasted pretty well and a variety of faults and damage to a radiator was easily repariable by a good radiator shop.....in fact if it was a good radiator shop, after they had fixed ya radiator often it was better than it was new.

These days the original part is way cheaper, the real cost of a plastic and aluminium radiator is probably 1/2 or less than a similar copper and brass item....may be 1/3 or 1/4 the price, by the lower actual quality is factored.

They are not strong enough to be repaired even if it was worth the labour...which it isnt.

30 years ago when I first started working on my own car.....if there was something wrong with a radiator that could not be solved by a good solid flush or a quick wave over with the oxy....ya had no hesitation of dropping it down the local radiatir shop ( and there where plenty), where they would whip the tanks off, throw the rods thru it, solder up a crack, replace a single tube or may be replace the core or some such
and it would be all good for In todays terms $100-150.

These days ya just replace the radiator for $300, and you can get one from all sorts of places...not just ebay.

This is typical of the trades being stolen.

This is why so many of the trades are being dumbed down.

Because in most trades first principles repairs just are not done.....any dopey bugger can change a radiator...two hose clamps and 4 bolts.

I used to deal with and take referrals from about a dozen radio and TV repairers not that long ago.......most of them have gone out of business, ( my old mate Rolf is the last man standing in my area) because so little of the equipment is repaired these days......very little in the way of home entertainment equipment is actually repaired out of warranty these days.

There will always be stories of "backyarders" that have done breath takingly rough work...AND tried to get someone else to pay the cost......that is nothing new.....it is also nothing new...particularly among the sorts of people on a forum like this...that there are some very very capable amateurs.......in fact on the single vehicle of their choice they will run rings arround most professionally trained mechanics.

OH and the other thing about EBAY and the internet generally......the tools, test equipment and parts have now become far more accessable.....years ago, there was a more or less restrictive trade system, that made lost of things unavalable to the general public....the enthusiasts always had their networks and sources.....but now stuff can be ordered on line from anywhere in the world, by anybody who has the skills to operate a search engine.

cheers

nilla60
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by nilla60 » December 17th, 2013, 12:43 pm

Goldylux wrote:It's when things go wrong that expertise come it,that's what your paying for imo.
One of the things I have been involved with over the years is competency assessments and that's one of the things that marks a real professional. Any mug can follow a recipe, but a professional knows why/how it works and is able to adapt their knowledge when the recipe is not working (and see it coming before they wreck something).

Goldylux
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 17th, 2013, 2:18 pm

Bang on nilla ;)

Whizzo,the buiseness was shut down by ebay,either directly or indirectly,it doesnt matter.
Someone bought a heap of crap rad from the net,it buggered their trans and my workshop
got shut down beacuase someone thought the EPA and Worksafe should pay me a visit.
They where only doing their jobs but if said person never got an ebay rad none of it would have
happened.

Don't take this the wrong way but youre wrong.Not any mug can pull out any radiator,
most basic cars maybe,but not anything.Without actually working in the buiseness i
find it difficult to take what your saying with any merit,except for personal experience.
To be honest an aluminium core radiator will outlast C/B if you know how to look after it.
Problem is average joe fits his rad,doesnt flush the heater or clean the overflow bottle,
which is enough to damage an aluminium rad in weeks.Or use tap water.

Little things like testing the cap,water pump operation and thermostat,and doing it properly
are all things the average "mug" won't even think of.Some cars need the AC to be degassed
to get the rad out,good luck having a go in your driveway.I suppose you can just let the
gas out though aye?

I was taught by an old guy how to do radiators and was fortunate enough to learn things most
have never heard of like working on honeycomb cores (very old) and cutting down rad cores with
a garden saw and doing a pro job because something isn't available.I'm yet to see any radiator fitter
able to carry out this sort of work,we also custom made gas fitting for a conversion shop.
Not all radiator fitters are the same and not all cars are the same,before anyone tars a group
of people with the same brush it might pay to have an idea what your talking about first.

HJ75 Rob
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by HJ75 Rob » December 17th, 2013, 2:43 pm

Goldylux, you mention honeycomb cores, I found a shop a fiew years ago to repair one on my 89 year old car, they rang me back to say the tanks were too brittle, but not to worey about it, they said because the tanks had to be re made what about adding an extra width . To cut a long story short I ended up with a brand new radiator thicker but nobody would be able to tell
, fantastic job and cost a fair bit but worth every penny. So there are still some real tradesmen about.

Cheers
Rob

Goldylux
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 17th, 2013, 2:59 pm

It's always good to hear there are some that know the old ways.I remember a reputable company
i used to work for swore by silver soldering the inside of every tank they took off,little did they
know the heat from this made them brittle and the problem worse.

The old guy that taught me showed me so much invaluable things it was amazing.Our shop
i learned at had loads of old work come in just for him and he had his own customer base of
older guys that would only let him work on their cars.The other fella that run the shop was
a mechanic and the state air con guru for that mob.Between him and the older guy i
learned many things which wasn't even spoken about when i was learning my trade.

We used to make tanks,cores,chop down cores,redo header plates when they had tube to
header leaks,the whole bit.Very,very knowledgale man.These days most places will replace
your honeycomb core with a tube and fin variety for ease of use to get hold of and price.

For anyone really restoring and old car to concourse for show or whatever it has to be
original.I really enjoyed that job.

We also did massive bolt together radiators for everything from cranes to mobile plants,
some of them wouldn't even fit in a large trailer and took a couple of us totake the tanks off. :D

HJ75 Rob
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by HJ75 Rob » December 17th, 2013, 6:15 pm

Goldylux, sounds like you worked for the same shop, ? This one was at Lidcom in Sydney.

Cheers
Rob

Goldylux
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 17th, 2013, 7:02 pm

Before i ran my own shop we where in the center of perth.
Got taken over a few times and had a couple of different names.

I'm actually thinking of maybe going back into it,the industrial side.
Anyway see how it goes.My old mate used to know everyone so i made a lot of
mates within the industry,whether them guys are still in the loop,who
knows,last time i was in the game was a few years back.Might go and have a look see tomorrow.

whizzo
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by whizzo » December 18th, 2013, 7:23 pm

Goldy lux mate if you where shut down becaue you where not compliant with modern environmental and safety expectations......don't try and blame ebay for that.

It just happened that some one dobbed you in.......not ebay's fault one bit.

Compliance with EPA and OHS requirements well that is a whole other discussion.

Just about every area of business is encountering the same issues....the EPA and OHS requirnemnts are a couple of reasons why I do not contract a whole range of work any more.

cheers

HillsForThrills
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by HillsForThrills » December 18th, 2013, 7:42 pm

^Was just wondering that myself, Whizzo... How someone buying a dodgy item from ebay, lead to a business being shut down by the EPA...? I mean seriously, if every business was closed because of dodgy ebay stuff, there would be no-one working anywhere... It doesn't add up... Goldylux, Unless the item in question bought on ebay was from YOUR store, then how does it have any connection to the Gov'mint agency investigating and shutting you down...?

nilla60
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by nilla60 » December 18th, 2013, 7:56 pm

It's not impossible if you know what you're doing. For example, my wife's a chef and she's pretty good at spotting compliance stuff that (if she chose to) could cause reasonable amounts of grief for a business if she took it up with the authorities. In any industry there's usually some amount of compliance that never really gets scrutiny and gets glossed over. In this town we had a string of kitchen closures following the closure of a veritable roach hotel, many of the inspections and closures of other establishments that followed were a bit over the top. Like how you can be pretty sure a diligent copper would be able to defect any car they pulled over if they put their mind to it.

whizzo
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by whizzo » December 18th, 2013, 10:10 pm

The idea that a diligent copper can defect any car they pull over.....well its absolute bunkum........a cop out by those who know damn well there own vehicle is not compliant.
I've heard this one soo many times.....almost always from those I know damn well, know damn well what is wrong with their vehicle and what to do to fix it...but don't.

All too often, people are prepared to take the chance on a wide range of compliance issues...they know danm well they are nothing like compliant with what ever the regs in question are......but they willingly, with intent and forethaught remain non-compliant.........I'm not talking about nit picky stuff...I'm talking about nothing like compliant or blatant non compliance that blind freddy could spot.

In a situation like that it comes down to luck and time.......Unfortunately, we no longer have systematic and regular inspection like we had in the past..........but the consequences of getting caught are much higher.

In the past in so many areas, you could count on being inspected some time soon, if not on every job...so people got zipped for relativly low level offences.....or they got "instructed or advised" to recify with no conviction or penalty.

These days, with so many things, when people get caught, they get ruined.

But people still don't want to hear about being compliant.

The businesses that survive are those that adapt to the changing situation and either address the compliance issues or avoid them by not doing certain things.
For example I no longer contract domestic TV antenna work, because it is near impossible to be competitive and walk on a customers' roof or crawl in their ceiling in a compliant manner.....plenty out there sill doing it like we all did 20 years ago.....they may as well stand by the side of the road, bent over with a sign saying "kick me".

So many of the big businesses outsource so they can avoid the cost or the responsibility for complinace.....yeh, that wont last long....google "chain of responsibility" and see how that relates in the transport industry.

I know a bloke who used to run a large and sucessfull radiator repair business....it used to be a good earner....but he saw the writing on the wall and sold up long ago.......he now runs a completely different sucessfull business.

Lots of business people are keen to blame this or that for their business failing or becomming less profitable......hell Jerry Harvey...tries to dump on the internet and ebay......My heart bleads chocolate piss for you Jerry...you have one of the most profitable businesses in the country and you complain because you loose a couple of points to someone who is not sheering the customer for every cent they can and is bypassing a system that results in Australians paying way more than other countries for the same goods

Business opportunities come and go, the market changes.....ya cant run any business the same way it ran 20 years ago and make money...you have to change with the times or get out and find another opportunity.

I contract to a business these days that has been operating for over 100 years, they are finding change is only too real and fast....areas of their business that made very large profits in the past are hemoraging money at a great rate.....so they have to make massive changes..in every area.

I used to contract direct to end users.....but with a range of factors, being a small independent in my area of business has become almost impossible.....so I now subcontract mostly to a single large client and have not made as well for a very long time.

Only one thing can be relied upon these days.....that is change...ignore it at your peril.

cheers

Chuck Steak
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Chuck Steak » December 18th, 2013, 10:32 pm

Please explain how a gas leaks "easier" compared to another.
Graham's Law of Effusion. Same reason helium filled balloons go flat quicker than air filled balloons

134a isnt ozone friendly mate, it like all the other gases are ozone depleating and only recently with the new refrigerants are they starting to get more ozone friendly..
Incorrect. 134a is a fluorocarbon. Fluorocarbons are ozone friendly. Chlorofluorocarbons arent.

Goldylux
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 19th, 2013, 12:52 am

Whizzo,
were going to have to agree to disagree,if ebay didn't exist i would still
be running the workshop.That is a fact.

Another thing,as nilla pointed out if you want to find something you will.
The guy running the shop was flushing cars out in the driveway with the fire hydrant
when we got the place,straight into the storm water drain.
I had coolant catchments made,and many other things to catch crap and not pollute the place
not to mention various filters on things like extraction fans for the work vice
and spray booth.

They picked on rediculous things like needing a new tiny step along the front and rear
of the workshop doors,bottles needing better labels and a soakwell,even though i
caught everything and it was taken away.Clearly they where told to pick on me.
They picked trivial things and hinted on coming back for more.Whether i was
compliant or not they where going to ping me.They're not all like that but these guys where.

I was picked up when i was a lot younger for taking off quick from the lights,
without speeding.They tried to give the car a canary and i mouthed off a bit.
Got a sticker for the brake pedal making a gas escaping sound when it was pushed.
Had to pay to take it to a brake place for nothing,yadda yadda yadda,
because they wanted to ping me.After that happened it's no sir yes sir.
The car was practically new,they did it because they wanted too.Why an
officer has the right to say whats mechanically wrong with a car (if it aint obvious)
is beyond me.Unless they do some sort of basic mechanic training which i know they don't

If you think this doesn't happen you're dreamin champ.

HJ75 Rob
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by HJ75 Rob » December 19th, 2013, 7:31 am

I think you will find that the cops in fact just suspect a defect and you have to get it verified or fixed by a professional .
This is because they are not trained and certified mechanics. So they put this on you and you have to pay for a mechanic then pay to have the defect notice taken off.
Revenue revenue revenue, and no skin off there noses, if they take a set on you , well you just have to deal with it in the best way you can and try not to make things worse, that's life. Best way is to not be conspicuous to attract their attention.
It's not a perfect world but Australia is better than most countries in this respect .
Although this type of thing makes you guilty until you prove yourself innocent , and we in Aus. are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.

Cheers
Rob

nilla60
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Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by nilla60 » December 19th, 2013, 7:48 am

whizzo wrote:The idea that a diligent copper can defect any car they pull over.....well its absolute bunkum........a cop out by those who know damn well there own vehicle is not compliant.
I've heard this one soo many times.....almost always from those I know damn well, know damn well what is wrong with their vehicle and what to do to fix it...but don't.

All too often, people are prepared to take the chance on a wide range of compliance issues...they know danm well they are nothing like compliant with what ever the regs in question are......but they willingly, with intent and forethaught remain non-compliant.........I'm not talking about nit picky stuff...I'm talking about nothing like compliant or blatant non compliance that blind freddy could spot.
That's what I mean. Based on what I have seen that is more than 90% of cars on the road. These days most drivers have minimal mechanical knowledge and a lot of it *is* out of ignorance (willful perhaps). I always look at tyres at the lights and see far more baldies than I ought to see, people continue to drive around on them because they rarely get called up on it unless they get unlucky (because there are so many marginal cars on the road and the coppers will tend to focus on the idiot with the hot 4 and P plates).

It's no longer enough to just run a business as it's always run. I have rellos in the auto trades and they have had to not only run the business as it is today, but look ahead for niches the big boys are not as nimble at filling. For example, looking to provide high end specialist services to specific industries.

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