Don't you dare work on your own car...

For the stuff that's NOT 4WD related, here's where you can come on in and discuss it, but do play nice!
Wombat1965
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1008
Joined: August 13th, 2008, 8:13 pm

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Wombat1965 » December 12th, 2010, 5:09 pm

Da-hilux wrote:I would like to see what happens to these little home fix kits when they start changing to the new gas that runs into the thousands of psi instead of the usual 150 to 200 psi that we currently see.

Try using one of those kits in a vehicle with a full time constant variable compressor. unless you re-gas it at the correct rate and charge capacity, you will literally destroy your a/c compressor.

Chris J
Oh for gods sake...don't tell us there's yet another new air con system coming out (with emphasis on the "con" just like the change from R12 to R134...) that will mean we have to spend a fortune on "updating" the systems in our older vehicles? :mad:

Really, the original point is this: why aren't we tender little souls in supposedly free Australia allowed to do stuff like this to our vehicles? As I said, if your car only needs a regas, you've spent $50...if it really needs work and has a leak somewhere, you've wasted $50 to find out, rather than the minimum of $170+ that a shop will charge for a simple regas, which is what most shops do "to see if that fixes it"...? Hell, most of us do a lot more dangerous than that when doing normal maintainance with a fistful of stuff from Supercheap...

Da-hilux
Here and there
Posts: 45
Joined: February 5th, 2010, 9:31 pm
Location: Wellington Point, Brisbane

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Da-hilux » January 29th, 2011, 10:38 pm

Mate Dupont currently holds the license's for refrigerants and every twenty years the license runs out and they then change the gas so that they can re-license it and keep making heck loads more money off everyone else who has to repair or work on these systems.

Vehicles and their components revolve around two things in the current world, emissions and safety. While i don't see how thousand psi systems are safer, the gas they use have lower ozone depletion ratings than the current gas.

The latest one that is supposedly on its way runs insane pressures that the older systems would not be able to handle at all without some serious work.

The air-con system in a car may be able to function for many years without drama whatsoever. My dads Terrecan has not had the air con touched in nearly 6 years. its not as cold as it used to be for sure. even though there may not be a leak the gas will start to loose its performance and will eventually require replacement.

Refrigerants are like everything else, they have a limited life.

Chris

ARCSTAR
Been here a while
Posts: 430
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:10 am
Location: Port Douglas FNQ

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by ARCSTAR » January 30th, 2011, 8:27 am

I'm with bear wind your windows down and let the fresh air flow and just maybe the world will change for the better when we had no aircon we had no road rage ...just an observation

unko
Been here a while
Posts: 188
Joined: November 15th, 2009, 5:46 pm

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by unko » January 30th, 2011, 10:14 am

88hilux wrote:what's an air conditioner ? LOL
+2

ferremit
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1935
Joined: March 28th, 2004, 6:00 pm
Location: Adelaide

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by ferremit » January 30th, 2011, 9:50 pm

Wombat1965 wrote:.... Really, the original point is this: why aren't we tender little souls in supposedly free Australia allowed to do stuff like this to our vehicles? ......
Because when some halfwit inevitably screws it up and vents the content of his recharge can, PLUS the contents of his AC system to atmosphere, its not only screwing up the ozone layer, but its also a public health risk.

Life's full of little restrictions- You don't let untrained people own firearms do you? Don't let people who haven't qualified for a licence drive? Don't let people with no clue play with gas lines?

Why would you let every yahoo with a shifter near a high pressure gas system that can cause shocking cold burns, blindness if it gets in your eyes as a liquid, releases toxins when burnt (like inhaling it though a lit ciggy) and is an environmentally damaging chemical?

ARCSTAR
Been here a while
Posts: 430
Joined: May 11th, 2010, 9:10 am
Location: Port Douglas FNQ

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by ARCSTAR » January 30th, 2011, 10:08 pm

major industry pumps out more ozone destroying gases into the atmosphere in one day than all the DIY mechanics in the world do in one year as to injury well accidents and I'll bet as many trained techs have suffered cold burns etc whilst learning there trade and probably do well into their trade years as a chef of 25 years I still get bunt on occasion does this mean we should be banning cooking by the untrained BULL$#@% we need to undo the constraints of the bubble wrap that have been forced on us by our so called leaders who in reality will only ever pander to the vocal minority

Goldylux
Avid Poster
Posts: 522
Joined: September 22nd, 2013, 1:26 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 16th, 2013, 2:01 pm

This is funny.

I wonder how your suppose to go about putting the dye in without
a vac pump.Unfortunatly nitrogen tests arn't always accurate and if
the system needs dye they have to gas it with dye to find a leak.unless
it is very obvious a leak can take months to actually leak the gas out.
unless you are a magician you would have no idea where it's coming from.

One problem these days is mechanics think they can "do" air cons,and judging
by this thread the average joe thinks the same.These days every bit of gas
taken out of the system needs to be weighed and accounted for.I remember
wrapping a beer in a wet towel and hitting it with the r12 in our old workshop,
those days are gone.

Personally i think the castor oil is as poisenous as the gas,that crap stinks and
ill never forget that smell.

Anyway,there is alot to air cons that they don't tell you and you are better
of leaving it to someone that knows what theyre doing.This reminds me
i should get my ac working on the hilux.Personally i dont think a $50
recharge can is worth buggering up a 800 dollar compressor.Each to there own.

Basically air con is a pump,gas,and a valve.That's it.Does that mean every idiot
knows how to work on it or that its that simple? I dont think so.

Burko
Been here a while
Posts: 316
Joined: April 13th, 2004, 11:58 am
Location: Brisbane

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Burko » December 16th, 2013, 3:32 pm

whizzo wrote:....It is the governments' legeslate and regulate rather than educate attitude.....and don't expect it to get easier.

Just than God you dont live in Germany, Switserland or Califoirnia

cheers

agree with you here mate. It all comes from numb nuts that "knew" what they were doing and then ended up frying someone or themselves. Being in the trade I have heard plenty of stories of people doing the wrong thing. Wiring up a house themselves only to make the screen door live and killing their own kid, plumbing going live, signs going live, there were many many examples when I was at TAFE.

I really don't mind having a go myself and for most things I do. However common sense has long gone with some people and they just shouldn't be allowed to hold a screwdriver or spanner.


I totally agree with Darwin's Theory of Evolution but when someone innocent cops it because someone thought they knew better than to call a trady in, That is just wrong.

Paul
Tell me again how it is the authorities fault you have an illegally modified vehicle........

2001 Mitsubishi Pajero Exceed. 3.5l V6.

GBC
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1748
Joined: October 13th, 2009, 6:20 pm

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by GBC » December 17th, 2013, 5:35 am

Y'all do know why gas comes delivered in pressure vessels? And that when you have a 'little' leak in your system, you have no gas left? That's why AC gas doesn't get sold in buckets, and it's not sold to MORONS! Add a bit of home electrics whalla - aldi split systems being installed by weekend warriors with 'plug and play' connections. Who needs a vac pump? Why do fridgys waste all that time learning a TRADE? I better get out of here before I say what I really think..

nilla60
Moderator
Posts: 6348
Joined: May 13th, 2007, 12:09 am

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by nilla60 » December 17th, 2013, 11:07 am

Based on the professionals constantly topping up gas leaks in cool rooms because the business couldn't wear a shutdown to fix it, I'd not take on face value that you need professional intervention to stop gas being vented. Far more likely that money talks and Du Pont has it sewn up.

It's like mechanics. Anyone with a bit of brain can change their oil, but that doesn't make you a qualified mechanic.

Goldylux
Avid Poster
Posts: 522
Joined: September 22nd, 2013, 1:26 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 17th, 2013, 11:12 am

GBC i agree with you.The problem with people doing there own repairs and installs
(with certain things) stems deeper than causing injury,maybe death and property damage.
The more DIY things get, the more people lose their jobs.My old industry ,radiators & ac ,was
basically single handidly destroyed by ebay and youtube video's.Being a small one man
operation i just couldnt survive.The rent was nudging 1200pw and after a customer had a sad
(Read below)
he sent the EPA and Worksafe around,the old workshop would have needed massive
work done so we shut it down.

The customers where buying rubbish rads off of evilbay at sometimes a 1/3rd of a cost
of what i would buy wholesale,where they the same? no. but no-one cared they just want
the cheapest fix.If they wanted me to fit it i would not give warranty on the radiator
and always warned them about what would happen.This caused arguments.

One guy with a vt commodore has the trans cooler let go and caused a big stink over it.
The mesh from the cheap cooler went into the gearbox and stuffed it.Luckily it
didn't go to court because it wasn't my fault but he rubbished our name and for the
sake of saving a couple of hundred or whatever it was he munched his tranny
and caused all loads of dramas,after that i wouldn't fit another one.

Maybe these people will get the idea when they try to fix things themselves and have
nothing to fall back on (warranty wise) You lunch an auto trans in your 4by or
have an AC compressor let go (and get it fixed properly) your up for some big $$$$

Leave it to the pros.

Things people don't realise is your paying for someone who has done it a thousand times
to do it properly,they know what theyre looking at and how to fix problems correctly.
Your paying for insurance thet their buisiness provides should something go wrong.
You also pay for them to get rid of all your old crap,like an environmental levy.
Usually with a regas if it's leaked right out,they vac the system,chuck dye and oil
in it along with fitting a receiver dryer.If youre getting this done for 150 bucks your lucky.
(i remember seeing someone say they where qouted that) It really is worth getting
a pro to do it.Not only this but they weigh the gas as it enters the system to the exact
weight for that system,then run a thermometer inside the cab and check all
settings and fittings and make sure its all running sweet.

To think you can get an aerosol can of rubbish and somehow "dump it in"
and perform a driveway regas :crazy: not really.We used to do similar things
ages back with just a gas bottle and a set of guages and a scale,but it wasn't
the right thing to do and that was eons ago.

"takes almighy climb down from novelty sized soap box."

nilla60
Moderator
Posts: 6348
Joined: May 13th, 2007, 12:09 am

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by nilla60 » December 17th, 2013, 11:28 am

Goldy, that's the scary middle ground. Stuff that the ignorant tyro can do, and 90% of the time they manage not to kill or injure themselves, you never hear from the 10% who do come a cropper (they never boast about their misfortune).

I once read about all these tourists who would walk to the top of Mont Blanc in France (huge mountain) and then come back and mouth off on the mountain climbers for "talking up" how hard it was. Unfortunately for the small number of casuals who made it there and back (and posted pictures to whatever was the equivalent of Facebook in the day), there was a similar number left down crevasses or frozen in sudden storms.

I reckon cheap parts are a bigger killer than any DIY. If your trade can be summed up in a Youtube video, you need a better trade. I've seen those Chinese cheap radiators that cost about what it costs to repair a proper radiator. No way at all I'd trust that rubbish to protect my $$$$ engine out in the middle of nowhere.

Goldylux
Avid Poster
Posts: 522
Joined: September 22nd, 2013, 1:26 pm
Location: Perth

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Goldylux » December 17th, 2013, 11:42 am

My trade couldn't be summed up in a youtube video but as you know radiators
aren't all that hard to fit.Assuming you don't own a holden vectra.Man
i loved them.The thing is backyard joe has a crack at it,snaps a bolt off
then rings the shop and wants it done properly in his driveway after he's
takien out god know what bolts and put who knows where and expects warranty.

It's when things go wrong that expertise come it,that's what your paying for imo.
Some people get a manual or watch a video and just tear into things not labeling or
marking where things went or in what order,then wonder why they have boxes full of bolts
and don't know where anything goes.The youtube video's can be very helpful but i think
they do more harm than good.

I looked up rust repairs,expecting to find people cutting out section and welding in new plate.
Not quite.It seems to old chicken wire and paper mashe are still around.Some of the
youtube video's are contributed to good driveway jobs being done but i bet there are
far more cars driving around with dodgey repairs.Very dodgey repairs.

whizzo
Need to get out more
Posts: 4852
Joined: November 22nd, 2009, 10:43 am

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by whizzo » December 17th, 2013, 11:51 am

Oh look lets face facts...the greater majority of the trade training and certification system is designed in the interests of those making money out of the trade and to a lesser extent those practicing in those trades.....always was and always will be.

The lesser portion of those reguloaraty systems is in fact in the interests of the public, safety or the environment.

Of course those who wish to protect their commercial interest or who have swalloed the line will bleat and preach the minority safety and envoronment issues.

Of course the general public and the regulators who either have some sort of vested interest or who have swallowed the line will support the position, because there is no unified voice against the position.

Of course when any of this regulation is being considered " the stake holders" are consulted......that is never the general public or independent contractors....that consultation is always with "the peak body" and the large business interests.

All too often the peak body does not even represent the majority of those practicing the trade..in particular the independent operator....often the peak body is actually run by the dominant business interests...no where is this more real than the electrical trades.

In recent times we have see the upper end of the education system (the university educated) dictating terms to the trade and vocational part of the education system.
The university educated are in no doubt that they are intelectually superiour and their view of industry, training and education is the only valid one...in spite of the fact they very rarely get their hands dirty....AND...they are determined to further intrench their superiority.

The university certified education professionals will tell us that vocational training is all about behaviour modification, rather than skills development or distribution of knoweledge.

Thus we have the dumbed down trade system now in place and the rediculously complicated brace of standards and regulations, that most trade level workers can't understand.......trade workers that are now dependent on and must refeer to the engineering classes for anything beyond the most basic decisions.

In this day and age those in the trades are most definitely viewed as " skilled labour" and not masters of their own trade......particularly by thos who consider themselves their superiours.

Dont worry, there is nothing new here.....in eastern philosophy, for centruries there has been a general concept that the student can never achive the level of skill and knoweledge of the master.

Luke in his gospel, proposed a realy radical idea that a student once fully trained could be the equal of their teacher.....but he stopped short of acknoweleging that the student could achieve a level greater than the teacher.

The concept that an individual could though independent study, aquasition of knoweledge or skills.....or just being able to understand where others don't.......can become competent in any way, remains an idea that is generally rejected .....particularly among the "highly educated" and the regulators.

Fact is, most of the great scientists, inventors, artists and technilogical pioneers where self taught and had little or no formal qualifications.

May be this is why there is so little that is new and truly inovative in our current age.

cheers

Darknight
Part of the furniture
Posts: 1316
Joined: July 7th, 2011, 12:18 am

Re: Don't you dare work on your own car...

Unread post by Darknight » December 17th, 2013, 12:19 pm

TroopiePete wrote:
Slowly reading through this..

The entire hole in the OZONE lay is total crap and has nothing to do with CFC's and even if it did as pointed out most cars now use non OZONE depleting gas these days, mind you they are green house gases - apparently!
I'll have to did it up but a couple years ago a report was released saying the hole int he Ozone layer is repairing itself after CFC's were removed from regular use it will still take some time to completely disappear however it is held up as global action can have an effect. Green house gasses are a different matter all together and shouldn't be confused with the ozone layer issues the only thing they have in common is they contribute to a warming of the planet.

Return to “Chit Chat - all the stuff that's NOT Fourby or 4WD related!”