Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

MasterInnovator
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Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 19th, 2015, 10:39 pm

So swapped my petrol holden colorado for a 89 td42 gq.
The gq is very neat and tidy and well looked after to some degree.
Heres what it has
Aftermarket Denco turbo running 15 psi(pulls like a train)
3" Straight thru exhausts
rear draws
waeco fridge in centre console
10 or 12" sub in the back
factory in cab sway bar disconnect
rear factory locker that needs attention
32" km2's
3" lift
6" shocks
snorkel

What I want to do:
35" muddies
stainless 4" snorkel-maybe, if i feel bothered to make one hah
Wanna chop it into a dual cab but the wagon is growing on me so i dont know whats gonna happen there
Light bar-42"
Custom airbox and filter as it has got a ridiculously small filter
intercooler

some pictures
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MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 20th, 2015, 10:40 pm

I took the troll on our first 4wd adventure this arv, big improvement!! absolutely love it


now....
Damage report:
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Wheel was on a rock on a rock step and spinning the wheels spat the rock out the back and the car dropped down onto the rock step and bent it....Will have a go at straightening tomorrow then make up some big heavy duty ones!

Peter Aawen
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 21st, 2015, 10:55 am

Looks like you've got a good start on the 'new' vehicle... not sure that the damage is such a good start tho!!

Still, HD arms will help reduce that in the future, just so long as you learn to pick a line that avoids using those arms as wheel lifters!! :sillywink:
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

gqjay
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by gqjay » January 21st, 2015, 7:19 pm

3" springs with 6" shocks, see why the arm bent.
Should look at the suspension set up as well.
Enjoy the patrol, great 4wd to learn from.

MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 21st, 2015, 8:13 pm

It only bent cos the weight of the whole car dropped on to it pretty darn hard, when you see the rock step you will see how easy it is to happen

gqjay
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by gqjay » January 21st, 2015, 8:21 pm

Don't need much do bend a standard arms, you will learn the longer you own the patrol.

MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 21st, 2015, 9:33 pm

^^^ that is why im going to make some big heavy duty ones :irked: :irked: `
Im doing stuff that standard gear isnt quite capable of so as things break/fail, just replace with stronger parts to eventually make it unbreakable :cool:

anyway the trailing arm snapped today after 4wding, luckily it was right out side my house...so im going to make some with 5mm wall thickness and brace with 25x25x6mm angle, that should do the trick

pictures :rolleyes: :truck:
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Peter Aawen
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 21st, 2015, 10:19 pm

It is damned easy to bend those OE arms, isn't it?! Buuut, since the coil/shock combination has been mentioned already.... :purplex:

I know of quite a few owners who've run similar set-ups to that 6" shock & 3 " coil arrangement on their Patrols, despite the suggestions of many (besides just me) who've already learnt that it's not such a great idea; and out of those blokes, the fella's who actually use the full range of their 4By's suspension/articulation & their Patrols for something other than just tarmac & dirt road touring type wheeling pretty much have a 100% hit rate for suspension damage!!

Why?? Well, the trouble with an un-matched set-up like that is that if you fit a long shock (one that is designed for taller coils) with shorter length coils, unless you also mod the suspension/mounts or extend the bump stops long enough to limit the compression/shock stroke so that the long shock never bottoms out, you are eventually going to break things.... things like shocks, shock mounts, maybe even axle housings & quite possibly also cause chassis damage as well!! And if you do extend the bump stops to stop the shocks bottoming, with the 6" shock & 3" coil combo that pretty much means you'll lose most of the compression the coil allows, limiting compression & & restricting wheel travel a lot, altho you might get a little more extension!! And I can see from the pics above that you haven't extended the bump stops up the back, so there's a good chance you are already riding on the closed length of the shocks far more than you expect!!

A shock capable of stretching long enough to work with a 6" lift is generally around about that much longer (ie 6" longer) when it's fully compressed, & a 3" lift coil will usually be somewhat shorter than that when IT is fully compressed, so when your driving makes the coil want/need to compress fully, the main shaft of the longer shock jams closed/bottoms out & acts as a bar of steel jammed into the gap between the axle & the chassis, stopping the entire weight over that wheel from compressing the way it wants to, & putting a helluva lot of force into the shock mounts &/or the chassis.... and eventually the weakest bit in the equation will bend &/or break! If you're lucky, the bit that bends will be the shocker shaft, but if it's a heavy duty shock with say an 18mm shaft, then there's a good chance that it won't bend/break at all & the much thinner chassis or shock mounts will tear instead!! That can be expensive & make for difficult recoveries!! Heck, I've even seen shocker top mounts go thru the floor of the wagon, & if you ever lift front wheels, those OE top shock mounts up front make pretty good dents in the guards, from the inside!! :(

Yeah, you might get away with running 3" lift coils & 4" lift shocks, maybe even with running shocks taller than that for a while, but if you want to actually use the suspension travel & articulation/flex the Patrol suspension allows (not just the droop) then you really want to fit matched length or close to matched length shocks & coils! ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 21st, 2015, 10:26 pm

limit straps will stop the shock over extending, and the i had a peak today and it appears the shock still has more up travel while the coil was compressed as much as it could ever be, but based on what you say peter, I will have another look to double check things

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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 21st, 2015, 10:46 pm

It's not the extension of the shock that's the issue with this (that's a whole different thing!) it's the compression of the shock that's the issue!! The coil & shock are meant to be limited from reaching their full compression suddenly by the bump stops, altho if your coils are made reasonably well, they won't really care a heap if they compress as far as coil bind - but if the shock bottoms out (ie compresses to its shortest length) before the coil does, especially if it happens often when you hit something hard enough to make the rear suspension bottom, then there's a lot of force going to be transferred into the shock mounts &/or chassis by that steel bar that is the shock shaft!! However, I do know of a few broken coils cos they'd been compressed to bind point too often!! (Had one break due to that in the middle of the Simpson Desert, & I mean middle too, not the middle of any of the usual tracks!! :eek: Who carries a spare coil spring?!?) But shocks that are too long with shorter coils are just asking for trouble eventually, especially if you work the suspension on the vehicle thru it's full range of travel when driving off road fairly regularly!!

Some shocks have internal bump stops built in, which can protect them from early failure, (the big Tough Dogs come to mind) but they still transfer a lot of force every time they bottom out, & it's that which does the damage!! I can tell you from experience that it's bloody uncomfortable driving home on a vehicle with just one shock that's failed, but if there are no shocks working on one end or even all round, it's far worse!! And of course if your chassis tears instead of the shock mounts, the vehicle might not even be driveable!! Check out the thickness of the chassis where the cross member that carries the upper shock mount is welded in (try the LH side, the right is reinforced by the panhard bracket) & compare that to the shock mounts themselves.... then take a guess as to which metal tends to tear/bend first!! And no, it's not just Utes & Dual cabs that can end up with a busted chassis rail or two!! (& for those who drive Toyota's with shorter coils than shocks, don't think this never happens to them, either!! :eek: )
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

gqjay
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by gqjay » January 21st, 2015, 10:55 pm

Nicely written peter....both post

SparkieKev
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by SparkieKev » January 22nd, 2015, 12:25 pm

Why is this in hardcore? Excellent posts pete. Very well written and detailed enough without needing an engineer to explain it.
Supercharged 6.5L chev diesel GU wagon build thread here:
viewtopic.php?f=187&t=138695

MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 22nd, 2015, 8:33 pm

SparkieKev wrote:Why is this in hardcore? .
Any reason why it should be elsewhere. This old girl definitely aint gonna be some chicken track queen

Now down to business.
can see the snapped trailing arm...
I cut both ends off and weld in new tube then braced both with 25x25x6 angle steel. This is a temporary measure until I get around to building some with heavy wall tube
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Went and tested on the same rock ledge and they held up well, still straight, so its definitely stronger

Suspension wise.
It hits bumpstops on full compression before shock bottoms out-not stock bumpstops as far as I know,but does need limit straps of some kind, as well as coil re-locators as the coils have a tendency to fall out lol

I still want the flex im getting so iwant to use the full travel of the shock as well so i still want the coils to dropbut just use the re-loctors to guide them back in

Other then that it is an absolute beast offroad,and gonna get better


Im also adding a pyro gauge very very soon, and winch little further down the track

MasterInnovator
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by MasterInnovator » January 23rd, 2015, 7:08 pm

Tidied up some of the intake that i wasnt quite happy with, didnt like the amount of joins and that stupid black flexi pipe thing you can see in the first picture
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Bit better on the eye and definitely more reliable now

Aaron Schubert
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Re: Good bye Colorado, Hello GQ troll!

Unread post by Aaron Schubert » January 24th, 2015, 7:26 pm

I reckon this thing will take a lot more punishment than the old Colorado!

Aaron
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