Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

MLW4x4
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Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by MLW4x4 » October 14th, 2015, 1:26 am

Hey guys!
Thought I'd Share my first attempt at making a trip video....

Absolutely amazing trip cant wait to get back out there.

Let me know what you think.

Cheers

Craig

https://youtu.be/smHF48geFMQ
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Shann Low
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Shann Low » October 14th, 2015, 12:56 pm

7 mins - after that, the music annoyed me enough to click out of it!.
What I saw was good. :thumb:

MLW4x4
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by MLW4x4 » October 14th, 2015, 5:25 pm

haha yep ill wear that!
HOnestly audio was a bit of an after thought.
Cheers for the feedback though will bear that in mind when I tackle the next vid

Cheers
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Shann Low
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Shann Low » October 14th, 2015, 8:13 pm

I don't mind watching you tube vids - I sometimes learn a lot!.

What I have learned over time, is that I now won't click on anything longer than about 5 minutes unless I have REAL specific interest in the nitty gritty!

So short vids are good vids - most people cant remember 3 new things a day so half an hour etc - no ones got time for these days. (There's even a hit song now - "nobody got time for dat").

I have a particular "bug bear" about offroad vids! (My background was as a manager for Dec PAW CALM) and often had to make decisions about closing off access to place tracks etc that were being torn to bits by tyro 4wd wannabees who don't air down their tires and all go into places with jacked up vehicles & hard tires and chew **** outta the tracks so "normal" 4wd's can't get in there.

We had a LOT of issues down Black Point way in the DeEntrecasteau Nat Park, etc where 4wd "groups" would go to places, purely because they were hard to get too. Yeagarup etc. Convoys of 4wds "wannabes" chewing **** out of tracks for entertainment - was "the criteria" we used to lock places up - erect bollards and locked gates for management (fire fighting) access only!

We TRIED to keep access open where we could, for people who visited the area with a "legitimate" end use purpose (they went fishing surfing, photographing canoeing - etc).

Where we lock places up, is where we see mud holes (infested with Jarrrah Dieback disease (Phytopthera cinnamomi) all plowing thru the mud hole - getting bogged - recovering out of it rinse and repeat - when there's a perfectly serviceable track AROUND that obstacle!.

Some of what I saw in the Vid would have me deliberately lock up some of the tracks traversed for just that reason - big holes attempted for no other reason than to ruin a good 4wd and screw up a track "for entertainment purposes" - when there was clearly alternate routes around that obstacle!.

So perhaps bear some of these things in mind when editing together your vid...if there's no other way and you have to traverse an obstacle - it needs to be for a bloody good reason - like the activity at the end of it. So show the activity!

If you produce vids for purely showing people destroying our forest for "entertainment value" on social media - then thats the signal to Forest managers its time to lock places up and keep the peons out!

We don't deliberately like blocking legitimate users out!

******* up ya vehicle and the track for only entertainment purposes only (i.e. no legitimate activity when you get there) doesn't cut it - it make you into one of the peons we need to lock out!

I've had this debate with a few such TV presenters...over the years (Pat Calinan) etc... and bear in mind I have helped film shows for TV with the likes of Starlo & Buschy!

Yes - showing difficult access for a legitimate end purpose (fishing in this instance) JUSTIFYS - "the need" to traverse difficult tracks at times.

BUT

Driving round in convoys of weekend warriors out to destroy their vehicles and destroy tracks and spread Jarrah dieback disease, purely so they can put it on You tube and social media to show what "heros" they are out destroying the environment is why tracks get locked up.

Unfortunately many people don't discern a difference....they think that buying a 4wd automatically justifies them being an "eco vandal" & as Forest Managers - that's the required "trigger" to take action "to keep the peons out of the forest".

Industry (logging) and "legitimate sporting / recreational activities" - are what we try to keep tracks open for.

Convoys of weekend wannabees out destroying tracks and killing forest for purely "entertainment value" to film it and show what a hero they are on social media - to forest managers is "the equivalent of young yobs doing doughnuts on public roads cutting up the bitumen that tax payers paid to have laid".... and are the ones "we have to take steps" to lock OUT of sensitive areas.

I don't think a LOT of offroaders realize that's why so many tracks thru sensitive habitats get locked up.

My idiot B-I-L drowned his Ford ranger a few months back driving it thru a bog hole on the powerlines track here in Perth... to show others following "how its done" & how well his particular brand of 4wd mud tires work... when there's a perfectly serviceable track around the big hole.

There was zero legitimate end use activity, associated with this trip, except for his company to promote their product (mud tyres) to their dealers and by deliberately dropping into a dieback infested mud hole - this automatically places him and his company (since its their vehicle) into the class of forest users we have to try and deny access in future.

The track can stay - just put locked gates across it all and give the Western power maintenance crews a restricted key to the gates!.

The power lines have to be accessed for maintenance - that's a legitimate end use. Convoy after convoy of weekend warriors destroying the track and killing the forest isn't a legitimate end use!. There's a place for that sort of idiocy and its at private 4wd parks...on private land where no one cares what they do to their vehicle the track or the surrounding vegetation.

I would strongly encourage you to keep this "legitimate end use activity" in mind when filming your adventures "accessing remote spots to recreate with legitimate recreational pursuits.

Try not to let your vids fall into the "offroad/environmental hoon" category by only being there to film buggering up a track for everyone else for entertainment value!.

You'd be amazed at the number of fishers & surfers etc that contact the Dept - asking what we can do to keep the tyro wannabees convoys OUT of their favorite fishing surfing spots etc.

There is NOT a big public acceptance of "4wding for 4wding's sake" on public access & forest management tracks.

There's all sorts of aspects that Forest managers have to take into account. "Visual Resource Management", "Disease Risk Management", "Recreational Site Development" these all have policy on how they are to be managed.

How anyone can look at an erosion hole 6 foot deep, created solely for "entertainment purposes" by tyro wannabe 4wd convoy weekend wannabee warriors participants - looks "good" afterwards?.

Most people won't accept that and most of they saw what i saw would probably use that as excuse enough to look at blocking future access & controlling it with locked gates bollards etc!

Such things are increasing everywhere you go and most of it is coz there's a select group of offroader's who think its somehow acceptable to screw up the environment for a weekends light entertainment - & "legitimate forest users" (timber industry, surfers fishers etc) if they can't get thru a track after a crews been thru churning it up for no good reason other than to film themselves being "heros" buggering up a otherwise perfectly acceptable track will be complaining in droves long and loud the following week to the Forest managers demanding "Something be done about it".

Rest assured that when you get somewhere and pull in as a convoy and then don't stop - get out and participate in some "legitimate activity" (Surfing, fishing, photography, bird watching, timber industry, apiarists etc) then those already there who ARE participating in such activities will take note. Often some of them will be those same forest managers on their weekends off...recreating with family and friends...

Soon as they see the convoys of tyros coming and going and not having any "legitimate purpose" to be there - you can bet they will be planning how they can put a stop to that in future!

So if you find yourself going out 4wding without a legitimate end use activity purpose for being there, and filming it into the bargain...then it's time to re-assess why you need a 4wd.

My 2c and then some!. ;)

Taurean
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Taurean » October 15th, 2015, 12:25 am

As much as I enjoyed the video, I have to agree with Shann's comments.
Just "getting dirty" because you can isn't a valid reason for getting out there.
Call us both party poopers or pikers if you like - but we are thinking of the future..... for our 4'bies AND the environment.....
Some people just have no respect for their vehicles or the countryside they drive in. :irked:
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MLW4x4
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by MLW4x4 » October 15th, 2015, 1:24 am

Thanks for the feedback guys.

And shann thank you for that insight.

Whilst the video may not always show it, our group is definitely advocates for track care and 4wding responsibly and with sustainability. On every trip we take out bags upon bags of dumped rubbish. Every clearing has cans, broken glass, broken camp furniture, shits me to know end.
Something that I did contemplate adding a dedicated section to the video, however with my own inexperience with film making I never went through with it.

You are right though, there is a mindset of no responsibility and having to have the biggest lifts and tyres amongst the current crop of 4wders.

You only have to look at the captain fawcett track, how that has transformed over the past several years. When once that was an easy sunday drive with the family, it now has sections that are impassible by 90% of vehicles other thank creating side tracks.

I will definitely take that on board guys and try and show more of that sustainability mindset in the future videos.

Thanks again guys :truck:
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Gary_M
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Gary_M » October 15th, 2015, 2:04 am

'aint nobody got time for dat' is an (I think) African American womans quote from a news story, that went viral, then became the track.

Legitimate end use? WTF? Dirty weekend is a legitimate end use. Killing time, legitimate end use. Cause I can, legitimate end use. Bird watching, legitimate end use, Camping trip, legitimate end use. To get away, legitimate end use. Boys or girls weekend, legitimate use. Day off, lets go bush, legitimate end use. I aint been down here before, legitimate end use. If you need more reason, fine, wait for a reason you like. Meanwhile, understand youre not the boss, and he aint your serf.

MLW, get out there, have fun. Good on ya mate. There was bugger all in there that warranted that response. Theres far far worse going on.

I think people have forgotten what the Leyland bros used to get up to. Or Alby Mangels, or Bush Tucker man, or ...et al. Even the old bullock and dray tore up tracks and left deep ruts.

Shann Low
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Shann Low » October 15th, 2015, 3:00 am

Yeah, not castigating you personally, more a general comment on a lot of the TV shows I see of late. Pat Calinan and I don't see eye to eye on this - his show is all about the vehicle and the tracks and his sponsors equipment which is all well 'n good, we all have to pay our way there are no free lunches in this world as the saying goes & Quid Quo Pro for sponsorship with favorable comment / media is the unwritten rule of the game.

Its just he never does any activities when he gets there is all... camps then gets up and bashes the tracks again.

In fairness to him Dieback is not the big issue over east, as it is here (and in Tassie).

The work with Starlo et al - everyone's looking for that "magic recipe" that makes a show "sale-able"...to the free to air networks. One of the big problems that both Morsie and Starlo have lamented to me tat times - is that all the TV execs in charge of programming these days on commercial channels are wimmin's... and thats why the TV is full of reality TV Master chef & Dancing with the queers, The Bachelor, X factor, The Voice etc!

You take an outdoors adventure and fishing show to a wimmin TV exec and they so - Ohh no blood sport - we can't have that on prime time!. :eek:

Unless you have a major brewer as a sponsor, thus guaranteeing a $100K+ advertising budget to go with the show - the networks won't BUY the show...

So "selling offroad media stuff" to commercial networks is a tough ask unless you have all your ducks (big $ sponsors) in a row.

Back to "the formula".

You need to try to make the show have broad appeal... the 2 NT dudes... they have a camp cooking segment each show..(Appeals to the wimmins who have to watch it with their hubby)!

The two dudes Rob Sitch & Tom Gleisner who did "Theres a river somewhere" had that haunting theme music... they had a novel manner of travel to get there (Vespas in Italy, Sailboat up the Qld Coast, Air plane to El Questro Station, Train to Nepal). So part "travelogue" (for the women basically), they had the chef wherever they were staying prepare their catch (i.e. cooking show again for the women), they had local wines and fine dining & luxury accoms (Again for the women watching) and the fishing is for the blokes.

So a formula they followed pretty much for every show in the series.

You'd say that was a highly successful show and think they made a $$ squillion but not so, they lost a small fortune over both series... and that was because they (Working Dog) made a squillion with a movie or two (The Castle?) that was a blockbuster & their accountant said unless you want to lose it all in tax you better make some more TV that loses enough to negate your multi million tax bill - to write off against the movie profits - so they decided to fish their way around the world in all the best places with the best guides and the best food wine and accoms until they racked up enough losses to offset their windfall from the movie/s they made.

So finding that "formula" where all the families 'needs' are met in the one show is bloody tough going!.

Something that 'keeps everyone happy' is a LOT easier to sell to a female programming executive at the TV station!.

So give some thought to the aspects of each adventure that you want to include in each show!.

(Adventure, Travel Accoms, Food, Wine, Local Attractions, Scenery, Music, etc).

Others had it down Pat e.g. Alby Mangles (Sailing, Adventure, Bikini Clad gals). The Leyland Bros, Harry Butler (did some work filming a show of mine with him as the main star once), you get the idea...

Come up with an original formula that has broad appeal across all demograph's (Some surfing, diving, fishing, canoeing) food camping & yes 4wd accessing all these great places.

But the 4wding should just be a small PART of the outdoor experience.

Not chewing you out at all -I wouldn't be typing all this if I didn't think you were worth the investment of time and effort to give you the heads up!.

I saw kids there at one stage (the river crossing) - great stuff, mabe thats part of your "schtick" (formula) offroading adventures with kids.

Maybe when you do river crossings - do a short set piece to camera first explaining and showing all the precautions you take first - (only one idiot in the water at a time, windows UP, kids doors UNLOCKED & kids UNSTRAPPED from child seats FIRST, walk the crossing to check depth).

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/ ... 55514.html

This one happened in my patch and I had to attend - the kiddie child proof door locks prevented the kids opening the rear doors when the 4wd was swept off the crossing & their child restraint harnesses prevented the parents being able to get them out!

No one explains the proper safety precautions to take for water crossings like that! be the first ones to DO IT RIGHT - make an example of how to do it right, and explain WHY these things MUST be done first for safety reasons IF things go pear shaped is too late to start trying to get doors open that won't open coz they are locked from the insode and also have kiddie proof locks inside as well & the kids are in safety seat harnesses...!

Try undoing all that in freezing pitch black water at night while your 4wd is floating away filling with water where you and the missus got out the front windows & the vehicles now upside down and under water and drifting down stream with both your kids trapped in the back!

This **** happens in the real world, kids die needlessly, the coroner reports on it... and still we see shows with 4wd;s doing dangerous water crossings with the kids all "safely" strapped in (when they shouldn't be) and probably the kiddie locks activated.

But you don't see magazine (or TV shows) how-to's covering ANY of that & as a result no one learns from others tragic mistakes... and that's why the mistakes get repeated!.

Why not come up with a water crossing "checklist" that can be printed out, laminated and attached to the back of the sin visor...so off roaders can stop and do the run thru of the checklist before just driving thru unknown water crossings!
(Maybe 4WD Australia, could include one in a magazine edition as a give away).

Get input from a broad cross section (Diff breathers, check for crocks before walking the crossing, tarps across the radiator panel up front to make a bow wave, windows up, recovery gear out and ready for immediate use etc, etc, etc.

Maybe invite some guests along to give set pieces to camera about specific topics (not spreading Jarrah Dieback disease, fire prevention) recovery techniques etc.

There's HEAPS you can include into a vid!

And why would a trip out only yield one vid?

Nother true story - took Starlo up to Shark Bay for a weeks holiday fishing once.... we camped and cooked and fished and so on.. after a few days i was a bit worried if there was going to be enough material from the trip for him to get a magazine article so i raised the topic.... "had we got enough material" for him to get an article out of the trip...

Starlo laughed pretty hard... ONE he says? Reckoned he would get at LEAST 6 articles out of a weeks trip... one for the RAC Magazine about thew wild flowers on the way up, One for the Qantas in-flight mag about the history of the area etc, a couple for various fishing mags, one for a women's magazine about some other aspect that escapes me now etc etc.

So same thing goes for you... ONE trip if planned out & filmed right - SHOULD come up with a SERIES of 5 minute vids covering all manner of aspects!

NEVER drive past a tourist info sign, COZ they usually have a BIG ARSED MAP (in color) of the area! Take some dark blue pin striping tape and mark out on the map the route you will be taking for the day, then FILM it while you explain all the things the viewer will be seeing along the way!. (So showing aspects of trip planning). ;)

A brief night time segment showing native nocturnal fauna in the forest with a spotlight even (possums, phascogales, chudditch, owls etc)! (Used to get Harry Butler to host that section... he's a natural commentator /guide).

Hope that gives you food for thought, its stuff you ONLY learn by doing it... I used to get those who participated in our tours to write a feedback form with extra things activities they would like to have seen or done etc - you might not be able to include all of them for whatever logistical, legal or safety reasons...

Go thru your comrades along for the trip and do a skills and assets audit - what life experience, qualifications, skills and equipment they can bring to the party that might make an interesting segment.

With Starlo & Buschy - we had a guy along ex SAS who did a segment on replacing a tyre in the bush with basic tyre levers kit - using the high lift jack to break the bead the levers to get the tyre off and the new one one and valve, setting the bead back onto the rim - airing back up etc!

i.e. a practical skill that will give others the incentive to carry the right gear and the knowledge of how to use it!

War & peace. :lol:

REEDY1989
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by REEDY1989 » November 9th, 2015, 8:47 am

Nanny state WA

At the end of the day..as Gary_M has said it all depends on what is justfied as legitimate use.

You go to two rocks and you want to carve up sand tracks.. who cares? you might not want to doesnt me someone else wont want too.

We all have our own agendas and who is to say who is right and whos wrong.

I like the vid.. i see nothing wrong.. i go through all the tough stuff and i always will do thats why i head out.

Shann Low
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Shann Low » November 9th, 2015, 12:52 pm

Dirty weekend is a legitimate end use. Killing time, legitimate end use. Cause I can, legitimate end use. Bird watching, legitimate end use, Camping trip, legitimate end use. To get away, legitimate end use. Boys or girls weekend, legitimate use. Day off, lets go bush, legitimate end use. I aint been down here before, legitimate end use.
as Gary_M has said it all depends on what is justfied as legitimate use.
You go to two rocks and you want to carve up sand tracks.. who cares? you might not want to doesnt me someone else wont want too. We all have our own agendas and who is to say who is right and whos wrong.
I like the vid.. i see nothing wrong.. i go through all the tough stuff and i always will do thats why i head out.
Let me give you a little tip.
Deliberately killin' the forest for fun - ain't "a legitimate end use" in anyone's book.
Just go read the threads about "areas you have been locked out of".
People like me lock peons like you lot out based on the criteria I have given you.
If you want to keep getting locked out then keep burying your heads in the sand coz your too bogan to learn.
That's why gates bollards and locks were invented.
I don't have any issues with having areas locked up. :thumb:

Ohh and the vegetated dunes?

I used to spend weekends and time off in the DeEntrecasteaux Nat park with my CALM DeC PAW Colleagues planting Marram Grass to stabilize dunes eroded thru wind blow outs coz of wannabe 4wders driving on vegetated dunes.

So the "carve up sand tracks" doesn't fly - just another reason to lock the place up to prevent coastal erosion. Look at Seabird and the coast eroding away - houses gonna fall into the sea and the Govt gonna be asked to pay.... and you think Govt won't lock you out of coastal tracks? Pfft!

Heard of the KOCO group? (Keep Our Coast Open?) There would be no need for them if we could get rid of the peons who go out for the weekend to "carve up a few tracks".

Sheesh I saw pics of one group driving convoy down the middle of the Moore river for a weekend outing - of course the local ranger was sent the pics and the Shire was debating it at hat months shire meeting and arrangements are being made to lock 4wders OUT of the Moore river in future!.

Its the pics posted to social media that get used as the evidence we need to lock the peons out! ;)

REEDY1989
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by REEDY1989 » November 9th, 2015, 1:48 pm

to be honest there's plenty of space in WA.. having a small area 'wrecked' is hardly an issue.

And the government has to pay out? so me and everyone else is paying out. we pay for our own problems.

The issue isn't that people go an ruin random parks.. people go out on designated tracks.. and that's still not good enough.

Nanny State - i will say it over again.

Call me bogan, call me a hooligan but because my idea of fun is different to yours dont criticize.

Gary_M
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Line up little duckies.

Unread post by Gary_M » November 9th, 2015, 2:03 pm

You know if tearing up a dune is bad, so is compacting it with tyres. For the most part it will recover. I get there are environmentally sensitive areas and these need help, and we should be locked out. But then if we need to be less playful more widely than that, and we are going to get antsy every time some young pups do something we cringe at, maybe we need to consider the militant greenies are also right, no vehicle off sealed road anywhere. If the youginins are doing damage, then we are too. Then after weve banned all 4WD access, we need to limit the number of sealed roads, these create hazards for crossing critters, unnatural barriers to diverse gene pools etc.

I know people that want all 4WD access to ALL beaches banned as the life in the sand cant withstand the pressure. They were on the news not that long ago. No carving, no craziness, just fishing, they are appalled at seeing your tracks in the sand at all. They want it pristine. Based on what Im reading here, maybe they are right. No more Fraser, it should be a hikers paradise instead.

Attacking youngins for doing things we dont find necessary, is not the right approach. Opinionated bastards are exactly that. They need to grow up, this is Australia, not Iran where one group gets to dictate all the terms to the rest. Theres room for education and a minority, and i mean a real minority that needs to be woken up to 'hoonish' behaviour in sensitive areas, but if it starts at a level of offroad activity that coincides with where were not game to venture, then its not going to work. If I was 19, Id tell you to ^%$& yourself.

This is not a community that has a tendency to gather in numbers, and protest. 4WDers tend not to like being associated with the tactics of Greenies. Much like farmers. It takes a lot before they are motivated, and even then, the protest doesnt last long. Their weight is in parliament, and based from their electorate. Wheres the 4WDers electorate? Oh thats right, were more spread out. Small parts of every electorate, as opposed to the bulk of major electorates.

But you know, lets attack the youngins and divide ourselves.

Gary_M
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by Gary_M » November 9th, 2015, 2:52 pm

Heres something for the elders to consider.

Theres a stage in growth and development of the human being, you included, between adulthood and teenager and its very much overlooked but explains a phenomena thats well documented for centuries, that the youth of today are worse than the youth of 'our day'. Its called the 'emerging adult' and at some point, we must transition from emerging adult to adult. Keep that in mind when reading the following...
If we see our own lives as a series of important changes and meaningful transitions, it would stand to reason that an older us would look at a twentysomething who isn’t transitioning and conclude that there’s something wrong with kids these days. We forget those same periods of stagnation in our own lives and focus instead—and selectively—on the moments where that stagnation gave way to something new and was stagnant no more. No wonder that in comparison, the youth of today suffers. Over. And over. And over.

The present is profoundly myopic. The further away we get from the here and now, the more our perspective becomes warped. In our reminiscings and pronouncements, we are profoundly egocentric. We compare what we see to our so-called memories and not to facts. We don’t even see what we think we see. We see it all through the veil of ourselves, our own lives, our own transitions, our own selective remembering. It’s convenient, really. And isn’t it nicer to think that you were once better than all that?

stockhorse
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by stockhorse » November 9th, 2015, 3:58 pm

Nice straw man argument to avoid the legitimacy of the points made.

"But you know, lets attack the youngins and divide ourselves."

Nobody attacked anybody but, they pointed out what will happen more often if irresponsible behaviour isn't stopped or at least curtailed.
"to be honest there's plenty of space in WA.. having a small area 'wrecked' is hardly an issue." so if I come and sh*t on your lounge room floor it is ok as it is a big house and if a small area is wrecked it's hardly an issue?
How self indulgent can one person be? You acknowledge you are wrecking an area but because you regard it as fun you will keep doing it, wonder what you will tell future generations about your stupidity?

"But you know, lets attack the youngins and divide ourselves." Trying to educate people isn't attacking them and it isn't dividing ourselves as there has never been a union between those knowingly and recklessly doing the wrong thing and responsible four wheel drivers.

REEDY1989
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Re: Brunswick Junction Mud and Ruts

Unread post by REEDY1989 » November 9th, 2015, 4:27 pm

stockhorse wrote:
"to be honest there's plenty of space in WA.. having a small area 'wrecked' is hardly an issue." so if I come and sh*t on your lounge room floor it is ok as it is a big house and if a small area is wrecked it's hardly an issue?
How self indulgent can one person be? You acknowledge you are wrecking an area but because you regard it as fun you will keep doing it, wonder what you will tell future generations about your stupidity?
I use wrecking in the olduns sense... to me its not wrecking. digging out a dirt track to ME is not mindless ruining of the environment.

Once again its all peoples matters of opinion.

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