NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

yobbo112
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by yobbo112 » May 2nd, 2012, 2:32 pm

Harb wrote:From my experience with lots of proposals to "fix" problem area's in the Whatto's, its those proposals that got the tracks closed.
I would be very very careful going down that path...it will end up going against access.
As far as club access is concerned, that is also a waste of time..... a similar thing happened with the Spanish steps, and a key was held buy a club....the gates were ripped of the hinges so quick it made my head spin......
You have to understand that Nat Parks are not interested in club access now or ever....it creates them a liability issue that they don't need......they would rather let us Trespass or just close the track....either way they no longer have the problem....their funding simply does not allow for administration of bush tracks.
This is a fight between Col and Nat Parks over track maintenance , and only those pair will work it out.
It will be different to spanish steps, as that isn't national parks land, if it was to go a head a key would be collected from blackheath np office or from col.
Yeh your right they have no funding for managing tracks but they are slowly and i mean very slowly coming around.
Are you aware of the mou Between the 4wd association and national parks?
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/resou ... an2007.pdf
A couple of clubs have already had access behind a gate or to under the mou as "track maintenance" They were even able to clear trees with chainsaws. As far as i'm aware they were under supervision of a ranger though.....
Liability is covered by your clubs public liability insurance as far as i know :confused:
I'm not sure what leg col has to stand on now days, as he has already handed the land over to the mine and national parks :confused:
So the way i see it they make all the promises in the world to get a hold of the place and once they have it, let it get chewed up badly enough to warrant closure then slowly turn it into a hiking track only......
I'm in no way involved in any of this stuff, just ask alot of questions to the people that are....
Don't Lock Up Australia!!!!!!

Harb
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Harb » May 2nd, 2012, 5:59 pm

I will make a prediction.....

Any involvement from the 4wd assc or any other party proposing keys will end up closing access to this place....... been there done this many times before......
Not sure how old you are, but there must be more than a dozen prime wheeling spots around Sydney that went down the poop shoot this way....its why this is one of the last few tracks around Sydney..... I don't hold much hope, and predict it will to go the way of Porters rd, winchbreak and many others.........
Keys suggest administration, and that spells the end of great place, it has never worked in the past, and will never work in the future...... there are way to many people that have differing opinions on what makes a good 4wd track, and then there are that dont care and will just rip the gates down.
Not everyone wants to be in a club, and I would say around Sydney, there are more people not in clubs than those that are.....these same people will make the gates open the same way they did at the Spanish Steps....
This whole thing is not about the condition up there....its great..... I feel and many agree, its about Col wanting to get paid to "look" after the place, and all this is just leverage to make that happen.......
I think he should be given something to do that, or at least let the fuel donations come in....... it worked for years this way......I have been up there when the grotto was so bad you had to skull drag near ever car through, and it comes back time and time again.......left for a bit, it always comes back.
Really the only road up there that needs upkeep is the first section so the soft roaders can get up to the camping area...the rest should just be left alone.
Anyway.... I am glad I got a couple of decades pleasure out of it....any involvement from Nat Parks always ends in tears.

yobbo112
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by yobbo112 » May 3rd, 2012, 3:06 pm

Harb wrote:I will make a prediction.....

Any involvement from the 4wd assc or any other party proposing keys will end up closing access to this place....... been there done this many times before......
Not sure how old you are, but there must be more than a dozen prime wheeling spots around Sydney that went down the poop shoot this way....its why this is one of the last few tracks around Sydney..... I don't hold much hope, and predict it will to go the way of Porters rd, winchbreak and many others.........
Keys suggest administration, and that spells the end of great place, it has never worked in the past, and will never work in the future...... there are way to many people that have differing opinions on what makes a good 4wd track, and then there are that dont care and will just rip the gates down.
Not everyone wants to be in a club, and I would say around Sydney, there are more people not in clubs than those that are.....these same people will make the gates open the same way they did at the Spanish Steps....
This whole thing is not about the condition up there....its great..... I feel and many agree, its about Col wanting to get paid to "look" after the place, and all this is just leverage to make that happen.......
I think he should be given something to do that, or at least let the fuel donations come in....... it worked for years this way......I have been up there when the grotto was so bad you had to skull drag near ever car through, and it comes back time and time again.......left for a bit, it always comes back.
Really the only road up there that needs upkeep is the first section so the soft roaders can get up to the camping area...the rest should just be left alone.
Anyway.... I am glad I got a couple of decades pleasure out of it....any involvement from Nat Parks always ends in tears.
Unfortunatly i am way to young to have driven any of those places, have heard about them though :(
Yer i know exactly what you are saying and agree, there needs to be some control over restricting access after rain up their though, like col used to..
Wether that be through a gate who knows, i'm betting it will be turned into a hiking track at somestage anyways...
The condition is great (for us) but not for the national parks in their eyes its severley eroded, silting up pristine local waterways and is impossible to get their service vehicles up their, to repair the top gate.
Don't Lock Up Australia!!!!!!

Sparkys
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Sparkys » May 3rd, 2012, 3:15 pm

Sounds like my enjoyment of 4WDing is more and more going to be limited to what I see on my TV screen!

hoonboy18
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by hoonboy18 » May 16th, 2012, 12:41 pm

Have been talking to NWPS about this.

Apparently there are two mountains, Mt Airly and Mt Genowlan. Both are within the Mugii-Murum-ban State Conservation Area. You have to go through Col's place to get to Mt Genowlan, and according to NWPS this is open. The track to the Mt Airly summit is closed, but this track does not go through Col's place.

Comments/confirm/discuss/etc?
Trav | TJH-00N
Previous vehicle: 1996 HZJ80R http://tinyurl.com/739r32j | Can't yet afford my next 4WD :-( | Currently have a bog stock VX Commodore

MarkIIa
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by MarkIIa » May 16th, 2012, 1:05 pm

Hi Hoonboy,
Not quite right.
There are indeed two mountains (with a pass between them). After the initial climb through the chute, the Mt Airlie track veers to the left while the track to Genowlan Point is further straight then turns right a few hundred metres before the grotto carpark. Genowlan Point is the furthest reach of the 4WD track, to access that track you need to climb Mt Airlie first.
Col's place is the start of this track. There is no other way up.
There is another track to Airlie Gap, which does not pass through Col's place, but that won't get you up the hill and is a graded 2WD friendly fire trail under NP management.

Idiots have forced the closure of this track! Respect our environment or get locked out...

hoonboy18
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by hoonboy18 » May 29th, 2012, 10:59 am

Well, I went out on Sunday to have a look around and say hello to Col. I know many of you have said the same, but I still wanted to hear it from the horse's mouth - yep, access to the tracks are suspended for the time being. The drive out from Sydney was well worth it though just to have a look around some of the surrounding area which is stunning. Col directed us to some other tracks on the southern side of Glen Davis Road, not really tough 4WDing, some steep climbs and descents though, but phenomenal scenery. Col's place is pretty interesting for a look, and a yarn with the man himself is entertaining enough as it is! If he was on TV there'd be so many 'beeps' you wouldn't be able to make out what he was talking about... what a cracker. We were in stitches.

Anyway, hope everyone else respects the situation, stays away for now, and the end result is positive. I encourage everyone to try to stay on the pulse with regards to this issue as when the time comes that someone decides the fate of those tracks, access wise, we will need to send a message to the right people and be heard. Col has successfully lobbied other closures in the past, and with our help he can do it again.

I'll be back sometime soon, planning enough time to go for the walk up into the Grotto and Mt Genowlan summit, even if I can't ever drive up those tracks, sounds well worth it.
Trav | TJH-00N
Previous vehicle: 1996 HZJ80R http://tinyurl.com/739r32j | Can't yet afford my next 4WD :-( | Currently have a bog stock VX Commodore

Harb
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Harb » May 29th, 2012, 11:23 am

I like Col, but its wrong he is using us as a pawn against Nat Parks.........as if they give a rats arse that we cant get in.......Unless he see's the light, thats it for that track.....gone.

Sparkys
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Sparkys » May 29th, 2012, 11:35 am

I just read the full agreement between National Parks and the NSW 4WD association, it made me LOL :lol:

Specifically the following statement
All the above projects if approved, will be undertaken in accordance with the NPWS Volunteer Policy and Guidelines. The Parties note that the NPWS Volunteer Guidelines (2002) state that: “Volunteers are not permitted to undertake high risk complex tasks, unless they have been formally trained and tested for competence. Staff should undertake tasks that are difficult and require extensive training or practice. Specifically, volunteers should not engage in activities such as:
• rugged terrain four wheel driving;
• use of chainsaws; and
• use of firearms.”
In otherwords, even if your club is allowed into the parks in your 4WD's to clear the tracks, you're not actually allowed to do any 4WDing or even use a chainsaw to clear the trees from the tracks! So you need to be a member of a club, have formal certification for chainsaw use, formal certification for 4WD training and written permission for the activity. I have the first three (Club membership, cert for chainsaw and cert for 4WD training) but the written permission one stops any spontaneous "lets pack the bags and do some wheelin" trips (which quite frankly most of my trips are).

That sucks.

Harb
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Harb » May 29th, 2012, 11:38 am

Yup it can be regarded as another track closure.....
And all this red tape is why regulated access with never work.....

Lowranger
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Lowranger » May 29th, 2012, 11:51 am

To all the nay sayers,there is track maintenance happening there,and it has nothing to do with NPWS.And the track should open again.But I for one will not be advertising it

Harb
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Harb » May 29th, 2012, 12:09 pm

Are you saying its happening at the moment ?

Sparkys
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Sparkys » May 29th, 2012, 12:11 pm

Lowranger wrote:To all the nay sayers,there is track maintenance happening there,and it has nothing to do with NPWS.And the track should open again.But I for one will not be advertising it
:confused: You just did advertise it mate

Lowranger
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by Lowranger » May 31st, 2012, 3:48 pm

Yes it is happening,but won't be advertising when/if it opens

yobbo112
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Re: NSW Mt Airlie, Capertee

Unread post by yobbo112 » June 1st, 2012, 8:32 pm

Sparkys wrote:I just read the full agreement between National Parks and the NSW 4WD association, it made me LOL :lol:

Specifically the following statement
All the above projects if approved, will be undertaken in accordance with the NPWS Volunteer Policy and Guidelines. The Parties note that the NPWS Volunteer Guidelines (2002) state that: “Volunteers are not permitted to undertake high risk complex tasks, unless they have been formally trained and tested for competence. Staff should undertake tasks that are difficult and require extensive training or practice. Specifically, volunteers should not engage in activities such as:
• rugged terrain four wheel driving;
• use of chainsaws; and
• use of firearms.”
In otherwords, even if your club is allowed into the parks in your 4WD's to clear the tracks, you're not actually allowed to do any 4WDing or even use a chainsaw to clear the trees from the tracks! So you need to be a member of a club, have formal certification for chainsaw use, formal certification for 4WD training and written permission for the activity. I have the first three (Club membership, cert for chainsaw and cert for 4WD training) but the written permission one stops any spontaneous "lets pack the bags and do some wheelin" trips (which quite frankly most of my trips are).

That sucks.
Actually i questioned this also and a member of a 4wd club informed me that they were allowed to use chainsaws to clear tracks.....
Good stuff lowranger keep it quiet!!!!!!
Suspect a few cars will try converge on the place this long weekend though....
I won't be as much as i'm itching to i'll just play around zig zag and mt walker.
They still haven't released the draft plan of management for this bloody area, this is one i won't let slip by un noticed!!!!!!!
Might call or email the black heath office next week.
Don't Lock Up Australia!!!!!!

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