How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

What's protecting your 4WD, and how do you melt it together?
Stricka
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How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by Stricka » October 7th, 2013, 8:22 pm

Hey guys, I'm in the process of sketching up a new steel tray for my single cab bt50. I am trying to nut out a way to incorporate a wagon/styleside design rear bar to my tray to allow me to fit a pair of rear wheel carriers or similar. I was looking at the bars made by s and j horsepower but just cant picture how to line it all up. I know it will sit about as low as my towbar. Has anyone else tried such a thing or am I inviting myself too many headaches?

Cheers

stretch4x4
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by stretch4x4 » October 7th, 2013, 9:15 pm

Well I guess you have two options..
One buy a standard kaymar or ARB rear bar and then just make the tray fall short of the carriers
Image
(you could possibly also put a pair of rear toolboxes to fill in the gap between any sill protecting bar work and the tray where the extra panels would have been..) EG:
Image
The other alternative is to stick with a standard tow bar and build the carriers into the tray. Something like the way Telstra do their canopies.. (It would need some extra thought on how to brace them when upright..)
Image
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stretch4x4
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by stretch4x4 » October 7th, 2013, 9:27 pm

Found a few others: http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-p ... ier-85884/
Not sure about the welding to the chassis but supposedly it was done by professionals. And that pivot on the first one looks cool but I suspect it would be more likely to fail..

Cheers
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oversite
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by oversite » October 7th, 2013, 10:51 pm

Stretch has some good ideas,

Personally I would avoid the engineering involved in messing with the tow bar or welding to the chassis.

Maybe some specially folded "C" channel that wraps around the rear of the chassis and then the tow bar bolts over it? using that as the mount you could build a simple bar with a swing away carrier on it.

I hope this helps.

oversite
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by oversite » October 7th, 2013, 10:52 pm

Or you could get really creative and use tube section and make it up to give you some rear quater protection.

stretch4x4
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by stretch4x4 » October 8th, 2013, 7:55 am

What rear quarters? He is putting in a steel tray.
A few of the off the shelf ones have the protection which is why I suggested the toolboxes or even water tanks..

Another thing to be careful of though is putting too much weight too far back from the rear axle. A pair of steel wheels and a bar is a lot of weight bouncing around, it can help find and weaknesses in a chassis of not careful
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Struth
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by Struth » October 8th, 2013, 1:45 pm

I have done the one below for a customer who was on a budget, you could make a smarter setup or keep it simple like he did,

Image

Image

Stricka
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by Stricka » October 8th, 2013, 7:45 pm

Thanks for the input guys it was just the ideas I needed. Will post pics when I complete the big project

craig-mtb
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by craig-mtb » October 13th, 2013, 7:51 pm

You should just fab it into the steel tray, basicly have the rear where the lights mount normaly flush down to the tow bar, and have a little step thing there, where u can have the 2 wheel carrier mounts and a little step to get up on the tray to, would be easy as'
2004 Hilux Dual Cab. Bullbar,Lightforce,33s,SAS,3-Link

whizzo
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by whizzo » October 20th, 2013, 7:56 am

Wheel carries on the back of flat ute trays I don't think are a good idea'
Flat trau utes generally have a hell of a lot of rear overhang.

Bu the time you build the rear bar and hang a couple of wheels and tyres on it, you just stuck this huge pendulum way out the back of the vehicle.

Not to mention how much longer that makes the vehicle.....my hilux with its 8 foot tray and bullbar fitted is long enough already without adding another foot at least by hanging wheels off the back of it

if you look at the telstra and mines canopies with rear wheel cariers, these are generally short tray canopies usualy 6 foot trays rather than the normal 8 foot tray.

If you are building from scratch, by far the best place to carry the spares is directly behind the cab and loading from the side......you could then have a 6 foot tray and still be shorter than the standard 8 foot tray.

cheers

Struth
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by Struth » October 21st, 2013, 7:20 am

Technically correct Whizzo but practically not spot on.
Its the same with wagons, best place to carry the spare is probably where the manufacturer put it, but if you wish to use the space it takes up for a water or fuel tank then the spare has to be relocated. Likewise for a tray vehicle. These are 4WDs not space shuttles, by which I mean it is not crucial to avoid every little technical issue in the pursuit of practicality.

Cheers

whizzo
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Re: How do I incorporate a Rear Bar on a Steel Tray??

Unread post by whizzo » October 21st, 2013, 10:56 am

Mate when you stick around 100KG of extra weight ( that is how much ya talking about when you get 2 wheels and enough steel to support em) well over a meter out past the rear axle ( on my hilux the mounting flange for the wheels would end up 1500mm beyond the rear axle) it makes a great deal of difference to how the 4wd behaves.

That is around 10% of ya total payload centered 4 or 5 feet out past ya rear axle.

This sort of weight will make it bump its ass like drunken frog on dips, Wigglle its ass like Miley Cyrus under brakes and make it a real handfull in oversteer situations.

AND on a ute that weight will be higher than on a waggon.....a tray back Hilux that weight would be around 2 feet higher than it would be on a Prado

That is a weight combination that could easily make the back overtake the front on a steep slippery decent or have you on ya side.

If ya trying to make a vehicle behave, weight distribution is everything.

Remember too most of us tow trailers of some sort.

Now the manufacturers have specified ball loadings.....if ya think the weight of those tyres and all the steel that supports them should not be deducted from that allowance...you are kidding yourself.

Rear mounted wheel carriers are far less practical on utes than they are on station wagons, particularly flat tray utes with long trays.

Ahh then we start talking about dual cab utes, that already have a very real problem with balancing loads because nearly all their tray is beyond the rear wheels.....I see these dragging their asses around town every day and that is with out a wheel carrier.

Most of us with full sized flat trays already have issues with how far the tow ball is under the tray, add a wheel carrier and a couple of wheels and that is another foot you have to reach under and another foot the trailer has to clear by.

Anybody tow a boat......the bow of my boat barley clears the rear of my canopy enough as it is, and that is with a long hitch

Believe me I would dearly like to get my second spare out from inside my canopy, but sticking on the rear is just unworkable.

cheers

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