IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs locked?!

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rlilwell
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IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs locked?!

Unread post by rlilwell » August 17th, 2013, 6:06 pm

Hey everyone,
I am having alittle issue with the front end on my lux, she is an 04 turbo diesel with IFS.
Whenever I put the hubs in it starts making a thump/cracking noise every 2-3 metres. It's started after a hard muddy climb out of a gully where I was at almost full lock, full power to get out. Initially I thought CV issues, so I replaced the right hand CV (inner and outer joint), but it is still doing it. It clicks in 4H and 4L, just hubs in 2H but only going forward not reverse....
All of my knowhow has been exhausted so any help from all u knowledgable people will be much appreciated
Thanks in advance
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 17th, 2013, 8:01 pm

rlilwell
When you have the hubs locked in, the diff is definitely turning the crown wheel and poor little pinion.
Because it does it every 2 to three metres it will be most likely the same distance as one tyre circumference.
A 245/70/16 is 749approx dia and is 2.35metres circumference. a bit bigger tyre will be getting closer to 3 metres circ. Maybe 2.6metre circumference.

If yours is making the sound very tyre rotation like the distances above then it means a Tooth OFF the Crown wheel. Did it happen around Tooth Hurty in the afternoon?
Get a squirt gun/water pistol and point it at the ground. Slowly Drive and shoot every time you hear it. Measure distance between shots, if same distance as tyre circumference it is crownwheel teeth. One tooth anyway.

If you can, remove the filler and look at the teeth as they pass, If you can see the teeth that is.

Whip out the drain plug and look for big bits on the maggot that will show it.

It sound like a diff out experience to me and a big wash out of the housing before the new one goes in.

Cheers
mydmax

rlilwell
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by rlilwell » August 17th, 2013, 8:50 pm

Ahhh bugger that was what I was afraid of.....is this the excuse I have been look for to get an E-locker then?
I have 285/75/16, I'll have a squirt and measure tomorrow see what it comes up with and I need to do my diff oils anyway so I will have a look at that too.
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 17th, 2013, 9:45 pm

That size tyre it is bump every 2.62 metres. Sorry to be the carrier of bad news but it certainly looks like it.

Let us know how the new locker goes..

Many a new diff has been ruined or has a short life because the chips were not all cleaned out of the housing, so make sure it gets a really good clean ie eat lunch off it clean, so you get the benefit of your work. No good having back in the shed again.
Washing out the axle tubes so they are clean is essential an often forgotten.

I used to do some dual axle special purpose trucks and if the whole housing wasn't cleaned the new diff only lasted about a week. Boss not happy with some blokes who did them..

rlilwell
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by rlilwell » August 17th, 2013, 10:31 pm

I would definitely proffer a new one to last more thn a week!!
I am stuck in wagga, central NSW for the nxt few months, where would be the best place to get an e-locker from?
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Hilux_Ryan
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by Hilux_Ryan » August 18th, 2013, 1:29 pm

If its broken teeth in an IFS lux, I think it will be easier to change the front housing. Have a feeling they are not a banjo style, so its all gotta come out anyway, then get the locker put in the replacement diff.
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rlilwell
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by rlilwell » August 18th, 2013, 3:58 pm

Please forgive my ignorance here, but by front housing do u mean the outer casing of the diff? Or is it an internal housing? I have never seen the internals of a 4wd diff before so I'm at abit of a loss with the whole thing.....
Also will a locker replace the crownwheel or is it a seperate mechanism?
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 18th, 2013, 4:18 pm

rlilwell

Just read above, The locker is only the centre bit which receives rotation force from the crown wheel and pinion. Two different, but work with each other.
The housing will be a cast housing with a CV in the RHS and a short tube section to the Automatic Disconnecting Unit on the LHS after that there is a LHS CV and shaft to the wheel.

You probably need to find a picture (They say Google is your friend) of the Hilux front axle assembly and look at any associated exploded views to get the full picture so you know what is there and what has been affected.

Because the crown wheel appears to have expired, so too will the pinion be slightly worked over, sort of RS and ALL bearings will have to be replaced too. Bearings will have had hard crap particles going through the balls of the bearings and that doesn't feel good.

A whole replacement housing and/or diff means you don't have to set up the pinion and only the same backlash and side preload is needed on the carrier which will be the new LOCKER or similar when it is installed in the housing.
Crownwheel bolts to the locker centre same as it does to a normal diff centre.

That way you will have good gears good bearings and minimum of fuss and work to get back on the road or track which ever takes your fancy.

Dmax Collies are Diff centres into a housing so if the Toyota one is the same design, just a diff centre, is all you need so the locker can be installed and fitted.

Someone might have an exploded view of the whole assembly to post for you or email to you.
Cheers
mydmax

Hilux_Ryan
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by Hilux_Ryan » August 18th, 2013, 8:19 pm

http://www.toyodiy.com/parts/p_G_2004_T ... _4301.html

Front axle for a 04 lux. Box in top left is picture of complete assembly (41110F), box top right is crownwheel and pinion (41201T)

If you are anywhere familiar with a normal car diff, a 4x4 diff isnt really any different, apart from the auto axle disconnect.
Normal Hilux/Cruiser diff, think Holden Banjo or For 9" with removable centre assembly, for your front diff, think Holden Salisbury or Ford 8 3/4 or Borg Warner.

Locker will replace centre 43631 and spider gears 241039A. Dunno how a auto locker will work with the auto freewheel/axle disconnect on them Hiluxes tho, best check it out.
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 18th, 2013, 9:29 pm

Hiux_Ryan
I sort of assumed that freewheel hubs would be used. If not, I would imagine the locker will either be continually ratcheting or the whole assembly and crownwheel and pinion and front shaft from the transfer case will be running full time. That would use up extra fuel and create more wear than normal.

He did say he had the noise when hubs locked, so should be able to unlock for most use and lock when the locker is required.

As you said, best to check it all out before the decision is made.

Hilux_Ryan
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by Hilux_Ryan » August 18th, 2013, 10:31 pm

I thought I read locking hubs too, but then I reckon the turbos have the auto freewheel hubs which is just a disconnect on one of the axles. Although I could be wrong.

Maybe I picked the wrong picture on Toyodiy and his has normal axles and freewheeling hubs.
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rlilwell
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by rlilwell » August 19th, 2013, 6:18 pm

Mine is the LN167R, originally non turbo, so it doesn't have the ADD (as far as I know?)
She is the green lux from last Novembers 4wd action mag.
While I have the diff open and being fully replaced should I put different gearing for the 285s?
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 19th, 2013, 6:39 pm

rlilwell
It all depends on how flush with $$$$$$$$$$$ you are at the moment because you have to change the ratio on both diffs.
You can just change the front one if you want to but can't use 4WD until they are both the same ratio.

rlilwell
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by rlilwell » August 19th, 2013, 6:49 pm

True that.....just for interests sake, generally how much would I have to spit up to do them and how much work is envolved?
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mydmax
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Re: IFS Hilux front end makes thumping noises with hubs lock

Unread post by mydmax » August 19th, 2013, 8:01 pm

rlilwell
I can't advise on the current costs of them and the work/labour it will vary a lot. Someone who has done it recently will give a better reply than I can.

The front will be swivel hubs off and axles and then diff out,
Change centre for Locker and refit bearings side bearings from new diff or new bearings, Adjust backlash and carrier bearing preload, done at same time as backlash adjustment.
Ratio change means new gears so pinion new and set up and also crownwheel change. Al depend on what combination is being done.

Rear diff.
axles out, diff out, new pinion, new crownwheel, setup pinion depth (same as rear). re adjust side bearings and backlash.
While you have it out you will fit a locker in there too, so everything x 2.

Best to get quotes from a reputable crowd unless you have a mate with the know how and all the necessary gear.

May not be cheaper because of the beer factor.

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