Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman springs?

Springs, shocks and all things between your chassis and diffs
Jbs1980
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Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman springs?

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 8th, 2012, 6:59 pm

hey guys jus wondering if any one esle is having issues with ironman rear leaves? i've fitted a full ironman heavy duty 2in lift kit n ever since have had a tailshaft shudder on take off n in low range 1st gear up to 2500rpm, tried different lengh shackles n wedges so far but hasnt fixed the prob

YBE-10W
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Re: colorado with ironman springs

Unread post by YBE-10W » March 9th, 2012, 5:06 am

none of that will work because its from the centre bearing, get under and have a look, ive got it worse because ive done 3-4" lift, but just taking off in 1st til about 10-15km/h lightly is how to avoid it, ive been thinking off replacing my centre bearing to see if it halps it abit as ive got 130,000kms on mine so it might make it better but it wont stop it.

or you gotta do some modifications to the chassis mount to drop the bearing, have a look underneath a hilux and youll see how there designed better,

or search chevy colorado/gmc canyon tailshaft mods etc and youu see what they do in the states as its the same car/chassis

Jbs1980
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Re: colorado with ironman springs

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 9th, 2012, 12:48 pm

Kk yeh we ready looked at the center bearing n looks n feels good but what I noyiced is that the pinion is pointing slightly down hill

mydmax
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by mydmax » March 9th, 2012, 9:02 pm

G'day Jbs1980
As std the diff pinion to tailshaft angle is about 4degrees and if lifted this will have gone far more angle.
It also will lower the rear end of the tailshaft so the centre bearing uni is also running more angle. To get it near the original number of degrees you will have to put a tapered shim, caster shim, in the spring seats of about 3degrees.
Measure your wedges and see if it is near 3 or even a bit more.

This will do two things.
It will raise the front of the pinion so the front uni angle is lessened, back to near normal,
And the rear uni will be also near normal.
Unfortunately some springs are very very poorly designed and the spring seat area makes the pinion point downward before you start so a greate angle wedge is required.
If the springs has made the pinion more than say 5degrees it is bad design quality.
If it has made the pinion point down it is inexcusably bad quality.

Note.
No uni should ever run entirely straight in line with the other half otherwise the rollers in the cups and on the cross don't move and the hardened surfaces just burrow into each other and cause failure as does too much angle.
I think you have to angle the diff up far more than at present.

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 11th, 2012, 6:44 am

Thanks for the advice Yeh i've ready got 3° wedges in it, the diff is sitting at bout -3° below horizontal. I had it out with ironman on friday n they have said to put the wedges in the other way with the fat end at the back which will point the pinion even futher south n if that dont work they will replace the springs or give me my money back n i'll go n try a set of toughdog springs

mydmax
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by mydmax » March 11th, 2012, 10:27 am

If the springs have made the pinion point downwards 3deg then they are appallingly bad quality.
If you have tried 3 degrees wedges and still have vibe then the BAD springs are soaking up the 3degrees correction you should have gained.
So as it stands you either need 6 degree wedges or thereabouts, to get near the correct drive angles happening.

After talking to them, and having them say to put the wedges in with the thicker edge at the back of the spring seat just shows the ineptitude and the bone dumb, ignorant and lack of all mechanical understanding these people really have.
If you do fit them thicker to back, you might even break the unis and yokes or at least damage them. Don't do it.

Advise them they should be selling toothbrushes because there isn't much to go wrong with those.

So you have springs which have been produced/sold to you and their working alignment is outside the normal working parameters of the mechanical drive line involved. Only the springs can be at fault here because of the extremely poor design and production and obvious distinct lack of quality control.
Anyone can make springs, it just takes a bit of thinking of issues relating to the performance of these to get it right. many spring makers have got it right, no problems. The Chinese iron man doesn't worry, "he just make spring."
Post the name and address of the place you bought the springs so others can be prewarned not to take advice or purchase there.

Peter Aawen
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Peter Aawen » March 11th, 2012, 11:13 am

mydmax wrote:.....
Post the name and address of the place you bought the springs so others can be prewarned not to take advice or purchase there.
Don't do that, it's agin the Forum rules and will only get you into trouble and the post deleted. We aren't allowed to 'Name and shame' specific businesses or individuals in any way on the Forum. :o
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 11th, 2012, 12:55 pm

Yeh gone through it all 4or 5 times now n cost me a clutch n flywheel of the value of 1800 to so yeh they will be getting told to get me another set of springs or give me my money bck tomomow morn either way they will be fixing the problem n any damage caused by these springs

mydmax
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by mydmax » March 11th, 2012, 3:43 pm

Sorry Peter
I shouldn't have said the name and shame bit but the fact the spring brand is known will be enough.

You probably agree an after market supplier shouldn't be selling a customer a problem, they should be supplying a proven
remedy with correct advice for fitments of their product.
I will smack myself on the hand.

YBE-10W
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by YBE-10W » March 11th, 2012, 4:16 pm

its not the pinion angle!

its the angle at the centre bearing thats worse that the diff, and nothing you can do about it besides cut the the chassis and reweld the mount for the bearing,

dont bother wasting your time fighting it, its the shitty cars build quality, look at any other make and see how they have mounted the tailshaft, it all goes underneath the chassis/crossmember not over the top.

ive been there and done it all and have higher lift then 2"

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 12th, 2012, 4:41 am

Kk but if the pinion angle is pointing down it will destroy the rear uni, its a bad combination of centre bearing placement by holden n with the pinion in the below horizontal as soon as you lift them

GBC
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by GBC » March 12th, 2012, 5:46 am

I and plenty of others are running 2" springs with no issue. Mine are ironman - 100000 kms on them now and all is fine.
The build quality of the centre bearing is fine (same mount as the last model hilux which was also fine) for normal people. Just because you have to mod a car to get more than 2" out of it does not make it trouble - it means you didn't do your homework. They sell 7" kits for them if that's what floats you boat.
Is it possible to put rear springs in backwards? Something sounds pretty wrong with the op's rig for a very simple kit.

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 12th, 2012, 11:26 am

Yeh there in the rite way n yeh i've spoken to alot of people with 2' kits under theres with no problems, think it may be just a bad set of springs, just have to wait n see what they come back with today

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » March 13th, 2012, 11:21 am

Well they are replacing
the rear springs n fitting them at there cost

Jbs1980
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Re: Anyone else having issues - colorado with ironman spring

Unread post by Jbs1980 » April 1st, 2012, 8:33 pm

Hey guys finally worked out the fault the diff locators were out by 20mm, springs are being replaced by ironman. Thanks for everyones help n advise

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