CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

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Fitzymuuder
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CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » October 20th, 2014, 7:45 am

Hi All,
Im new too all this and joined because i am on a serious hunt for a camper trailer. I have read all the posts on here good and bad and decided to head off to the 4wd show in Eastern creek on the weekend.
There were a couple of dirty tastes left in my mouth from slightly dishonest to flat out sell your mother to make a sale, sales guys.

Firstly.... Any one have a clarification on what AUSTRALIAN MADE means?
i was looking at soft floor and hard floor campers both forward and rear fold, Easy trail and Skamper Kampers both told me their hard floors are made in China as a bundle then just wheels and bits put on in Australia, MDC guy completely ignored my question and proceeded to tell me about more of the trailers features, But GIC went to a whole new level and told me theirs was all Australian made, I asked the guy if he meant Australian assembled or made, he was adamant that it was made here. This left me scratching my head... why would they go the the effort of making a trailer here that looks basically exactly like their competitors chinese made? CUB campers were clearly quite different and when he said Australian made i believed him more, because of the style and price difference.

Secondly... What makes on off road trailer?
once i hit the hard floors and a couple of soft floors i noticed that some had independent suspension so - obviously - off road trailers. but what makes Leisure matters tell me their little box trailer with a bolted draw bar, few spring leaves, round axle and 14? inch rims will go anywhere in Australia. Why do people look me in the eye and say these things??? I have seen MDC, Jonno's and GIC trailers on DVD and tv going on some hairy tracks so i have seen their capabilities.
Does any one know if any other trailers around the 10K mark have a single chassis rail with extended draw bar like Skamper Kampers do? that was a good selling point for me.

I never intended to write this much, however it all just started flowing once i started.
Bottom line is there is so much out there and i really can not afford to get this decision wrong. it is my one big purchase that i have been saving for a long time. I am sure i am not alone out there.
Im just looking for you experienced readers that can help me out.
Cheers
Fitzy

chris_stoffa
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by chris_stoffa » October 20th, 2014, 7:56 am

Australian Made / Made in Australia / Grown in Australia / Product of Australia have in my opinion been so misrepresented or so diffused in meaning so as to be virtually worthless.

Do yor own homwwork, buy what suits your circumstances and budget safe in the knowledge that at least you answered your own questions honestly and to the best of your ability unlike some manufacturers.

If they cant or wont answer your questions go elsewhere.
03 Bravo 2.5TD DCab

Dmaxqld
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Dmaxqld » October 20th, 2014, 12:35 pm

Fitting independant suspension does not make a CT off road capable. Far from it. I would be particularly warry of any trailer with cheap independant suspension. I have towed my CT over some seriously rough roads and it has leaf springs.

Fitzymuuder
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » October 21st, 2014, 7:06 am

Dmaxqld wrote:Fitting independant suspension does not make a CT off road capable. Far from it.
Thank you Dmaxqld - This was another thing i was told by a salesman lol, "independent is the superior way to go off road"
I had no idea that there were different types of independent styles. Is there an easy way to tell a good from a bad?
also your leaf springs, how many is enough? with rebound or just leafs?

Dmaxqld
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Dmaxqld » October 21st, 2014, 7:42 am

Good ones are made stronger and have better springs and shocks. A good coil setup starts at $2000. Have a look at these websites and you will get a better idea

http://www.vehiclecomponents.com.au/sus ... uspensions

http://www.alko.com.au/vehicle-technolo ... e-springs/

http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=32717.0

Fitzymuuder
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » October 21st, 2014, 8:59 am

Champion!

Eddy
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Eddy » October 21st, 2014, 7:54 pm

To help you to make up your mind ... a few tips on what to look for.

Welds. Should have good penetration. so, when looking at a weld, it should pretty much flow into the metal. If it sits like a turd on top of the material, not enough penetration. if the edges are below the material, too much. There should be plenty of them.

Some, like MDC, like to have bits of aluminium plate riveted on for bling. That's just silly. easy to remove so no big deal.

Hit the doors and drawers with the edge of your hand. Should be a reasonanbly solid sound. Shouldn't sound like ya just kicked an empty tinny down the street.

Doors and drawers should need just a little effort to open and close. when open, they shouldn't hang like rags.

Look at the design of the rear end. It should appear that you could reverse into a brick wall and the lights, tailgate etc will still be fine.

02-SR5
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by 02-SR5 » October 24th, 2014, 2:19 am

There is only one thing worse than any salesman selling a camper trailer under any brand with only 3 initials.

Cancer.

For the money you spend on the rubbish they sell (because it's shiny and have a lot of low quality bling), you can buy a top shelf Australian made camper. Customline now have a basic one for less than $10k.

Look at second hand too.

Fitzymuuder
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » October 24th, 2014, 11:16 am

02-SR5 wrote:There is only one thing worse than any salesman selling a camper trailer under any brand with only 3 initials.

Cancer.
I think you just wrote my next tattoo!! hahahah

Fitzymuuder
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » October 24th, 2014, 11:35 am

Thank you Eddie and 02-SR5,

Eddie that was a good tip on the welds, i have been noticing the huge differences in those.. but worryingly i have to say, there are some better Chinese welds out there than some of the Australian ones.

SR5 - im Aussie through and through however i am really struggling to find an aussie built that matches some of these imports in bang for my buck...

Second hand i have been and looked at 4 in the past week and a half. Almost had an old customline for 7k but the tent would need replacing very soon, it was well used. which lead me to look at getting it for its trailer and then adding a new tent, but that went well over my budget. i am still on the hunt!!

I am teetering right on the edge of a Skamper Kamper ranger. Full gal, no options = everything is included 7550 drive away leaving me with 2k to customise..
Any recent reviews on these trailers? i know there are old issues on my swag. org... any new ones?

I need to thank Dmax again, now i know i don't need independent suspension for my use.

I can't believe i have never used these open forums before. Between here and facebook, everyone has been so helpful and some great hints and tips that i never would have come up with.

02-SR5
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by 02-SR5 » October 24th, 2014, 3:30 pm

The independent suspension on any camper selling less than $10k is strictly for looks only.

Keep searching Australian made second hand. My brother just paid $7k for a 3 year old Customline only used twice in Albury.

TLC60S
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by TLC60S » October 25th, 2014, 2:30 pm

Hi Fitzymuuder

Your question what makes a camper an off roader.

Honnestly I don't think there is any clear guide line for manufactures to class their campers as on road or off road.
Some maybe calling them off road cause they are ok on dirt roads & there definition of off road means off the bitumen. Some look at off road as we do with being able to be towed where the 4wd can tow them & I dont't mean being dragged until it breaks.
Look at it like your 4wd or the way 4wd Action do their test on the vehicles to find a cars off road ability.
Older 4wds came with leave spring & performed quite well although the coil spring was better for comfort remember your not sitting in the camper so not much of an advantage having coils on a camper . Also this is just my beleive is coils sprung campers aren't a proven reliable set up as much as leaves. To many of the set ups I've seen under campers rely too much on the shock not to let go if not the spring falls out & that is why the better set ups know this & fit chains incase the shock lets go.
Just like when your looking to find a good off road tow vehicle one thing that has to tick the boxes is the approach & departure angles. At that same show at Eastern Creek did you see the camper model that features on the 4wd Action DVDs & the tow rig just amagine if 4wd Action was comparing this in a Off Road Camper shoot out , It would be rated like a stock standard Mini Minor to a Landcruiser Or patrol . The drawer bars are so long trying to accomodate so many accessories the tow vehicle is just dragging the trailer over obstacles cause of the lack of approach angle.
Just like the above posts check the quality of welds & remember to buy if it has been made with Australin steel, if not on this forum somewhere there is a new camper sitting on the Gibb River Road for sale that has quiet obviously benn made by
cheap chinese steel.
Don't dismiss second hand if the budget doesn't allow for quality brand new. Second hand camper could be your gate way to a better quality camper that will last longer than a new cheap camper.

Cheers TLC60S

rj1952
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by rj1952 » November 2nd, 2014, 4:09 pm

Just want to underline the importance of checking the quality of the welds on whatever CT you look at. 2 years ago our friends drove from Adelaide to Melbourne to pick up a new CT because it had all the features they wanted and cost only $5000. They did a few short trips and then went up to the Flinders Ranges and across to the shores of Lake Eyre. Just got back onto the bitumen on the way home and the entire axle and wheels assembly broke off. Fortunately their Pajero stayed upright as they involuntarily dragged the wheel-less trailer off the road edge. Long story short. Insurance company wouldn't pay up because they assessed the cause of the accident to be a manufacturing fault. It was too expensive to have the broken trailer and wheel assembly returned to Adelaide for rebuilding.
Outcome ... they purchased a $49000 Adventure Camper Trailer and couldn't be happier. It has already done some more Flinders Ranges rugged tracks and other 4wd off-road treks without issue, as you would hope for that much more money. At least the cheap one showed them what was important, and what features they were missing, that they now value.
The cheap trailer was amongst a container load of Chinese made units. I have always wondered if you could purchase a unit like that and then get a local engineering company to add a few reinforcements and lay down some additional welds. It may have been ok for many years if it had only been used on bitumen.
Anyway, they certainly use and appreciate their new CT.
It's nicer to say something helpful

Fitzymuuder
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by Fitzymuuder » November 17th, 2014, 2:44 pm

Thanks guys,
Thanks for taking the time to read and understand my budget constraints, thats why everyone suggesting a well built second hand trailer.. which is where i am focusing now. Something in the back of my mind still saying a new Gal skamper though, haha

TLC - for the "off" roading i will be doing, clearance angles and all that should not hinder me too much. but a valid point. Thanks for a great explanation mate.

RJ i will take onboard your comment of taking it down to an engineering workshop and having it reinforced... might be another cost cutting excersise for me..

Just a quick story while i am here... I went to Bathurst yesterday to see what CT's were on display at the show. bit dissapointed that only 2 were there, (but i did get to look at that S K ranger i like)
I walked into the MDC display and was greeted by an inch of water, they got rain overnight and the seams were obviously blu tacked together because the walls and roof were dripping wet. but on a positive note. it was good to see the floor was waterproof cos it was holding it in there pretty well.. hahahaha

02-SR5
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Re: CT Dislikes - Dishonest salesmen

Unread post by 02-SR5 » November 17th, 2014, 6:28 pm

As stated mate,

stay away from any company that has 3 letters in their company logo.

Good move looking at 2nd hand Australian made campers, you WILL NOT regret it one bit.

We went camping with friends of our that hired a Camel Camper. It looked very used and second hand, but, the tent was still water proof, no tears. The trailer was covered in stone chips and some surface rust, but it was still a solid trailer.

It was a hire camper, so they get them in and out quick. However, if this particular camper belong to some one, it would not look like this, but it was a top quality camper.

Even after years of use (abuse) by people, everthing was still square, the zippers still worked, the flaps were all there, the trailer was still as solid as it was from day one.

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