Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspension

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XJalltheway
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Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspension

Unread post by XJalltheway » July 17th, 2015, 9:18 pm

Hi, I've been lurking around for a little while, and thought I'd voice a few questions to those infinitely more well versed in the world of 4X4's. I have a 96 XJ Cherokee 4.0L straight six petrol. It's my first car, and I have driven it a fair bit, both on road and off (although I don't yet have my license). It has a fuel tank capacity of 76-78 litres, and it gets around 700km to a tank. Is this a reasonable fuel range for extended trips? And my second question, where could I store jerry cans of petrol, other than a roof rack? Am I able to store them in a swing away carrier on the back? I have seen a few other vehicles doing that, although I believe the rules are different for diesel vs petrol. One more, what is the best way to fix saggy rear leaf springs? Cheers, Jim

nilla60
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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by nilla60 » July 17th, 2015, 11:47 pm

It will be mostly consistent, but ultimately a state dependent thing.

Tassie:
http://worksafe.tas.gov.au/safety/safet ... containers
"Containers should be transported externally to the vehicle wherever possible and are not to be transported inside a passenger compartment." but...
"ensuring containers are upright, protected from impact and are away from any heat source (eg. residual heat/direct sun)"

This article appears to be well researched:
http://www.whatsupdownunder.com.au/News ... ruary-2015
"But, you are very limited as to where you can safely carry them externally too. The fuel containers must not overhang your vehicle to either side (left or right). Must not be mounted on the front of your vehicle and if mounted on the rear of your vehicle it must be mounted in an approved holder (ADR compliant). If they appear to be mounted in an unsafe manner or they overhang the rear of the vehicle too much (determined by a Police Office or Road Safety Office) then an infringement can be issued. Another reason how the law is considered a 'grey area' as it may be left up to an authority to make a decision at any point in time."

hoyks
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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by hoyks » July 18th, 2015, 10:36 am

I had a soft top Sierra for years, it only had a 40L tank and the only option was to carry a jerry in the back, combined it would get me around 600km. I'd pack it down at the tailgate so it could be easily removed and filled.

Packing fuel inside is not the best option as 1ml of fuel spilled on the outside of the jerry has a tendency to stink the whole car out. If you have a roof rack, then pack them there. Getting them up and down can be a pain though.

South Australia are big on the not packing them on the rear of the vehicle thing, but I don't think the rest of the states give much of a stuff. Keep in mind though that if you do get rear ended there is the potential for a massive spray of fuel that you probably don't want.
In the vehicle they will be more protected, but then you could be much more intimate with the leak, but to distort the body enough to rupture the jerry in the vehicle, the under body fuel tank would be in trouble too.

Your best bet is to carry them just in case, but transfer the fuel into the main tank when there is room. An empty jerry can't leak.... well, it can vent fumes and still stink the car out ;)

Then there is the whole Steel V Plastic debate. I like my plastic Rheem jerries. They might blow up like a balloon when they get hot, but never leak a drop and don't rust. I had one part company from the trailer at 80km/h. A corner got dented in and it got a few scuffs, but left in the sun the corner popped out again and it is still good. Steel jerries don't fare so well.

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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 18th, 2015, 11:39 am

6-700 km of range isn't too bad, but the trap with petrol engined 4WD's & especially with those Cherokee's is that when you start working them hard, their fuel consumption can double, triple, or even worse!! I know it's hard to believe until you actually see it, but be assured, if you use your Jeep in the manner it was intended & especially if you tackle the tuff stuff, there will be times that your fuel consumption goes thru the roof!! I've seen vehicles working hard that were getting just 1 or 2 kms for each litre of fuel; and they were bloody capable vehicles being driven extremely well by very skilled drivers - it was just the combination of terrain, loads, temperatures, & how hard the engines were working that meant they sucked the fuel down!! So 6-700 km of range on your usual consumption rate might be OK, but what about when your vehicle is getting say no better than 5km per litre, or using 20 plus litres per 100 km? You won't get 600 km out of your standard tank then, will you? And one or two 20 litre jerries won't get you a heap further either!! :eek:

Dunno if you still can get them, (I reckon you'd hafta be able to tho) but there were Long Range fuel tanks & I believe also auxiliary tanks available for that vintage Cherokee's... Long range fuel tanks may be a tad expensive, probably in the vicinity of $1k new, but IMO a Long Range tank on a touring 4WD is pretty much a necessity & well worth the investment!! Sure, you can use jerry cans (steel or plastic, up to you) while saving for one if you must, but if you intend to 4wd &/or travel extensively in Aust, the best & safest way to carry more fuel is in a properly installed & plumbed in Long Range Fuel Tank!! Just don't get suckered into buying one of the 'cheaper & bigger' jobbies, if you want a quality tank that isn't likely to leak or cause any other troubles, you really need to go for a Long Ranger, LRA (Long Range Automotive), Brown Davis, or one of the similar quality tanks you can get from ARB, TJM, or Opposite Lock. Fitting one of the quality long range fuel tanks will be money well spent! :thumb:

Unless things have changed massively & recently, the 'larger capacity &/or cheaper' offerings that are sold by others or that are available over the web/thru eBay etc really aren't up to it!! I've personally tested & also seen a heap of tanks over the years, and with the exception of those brands & the suppliers named above, I've been very disappointed & sometimes even horrified; basically, the rest just aren't the same with regards to useability, quality, &/ or safety! Even the others that are advertised as being made in Aust; those labelled as strong enough to go anywhere in Aust; the tanks claiming to be of the biggest capacity; &/or those advertised as being the cheapest but still quality tanks simply don't cut it when put to the test across the harsh range of our Aussie Off Road conditions - some simply astounded in where they'd spring a leak from next - one even leaked from EVERY joined seam & most of the bends in seemingly sound metal plate within the first 1000km of being filled.... & I won't even start to go into the hassles & shortfalls you can find with the installation &/or operation of many of the 'lesser offerings'!! :eek:

Get a Long Range Tank, but when you do, make sure you get one of the quality tanks mentioned in the first para at the top of this post or you might regret spending the money!! Buy real Quality, you only buy once; buy cheaper or less quality, & you'll buy often!! :(
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

XJalltheway
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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by XJalltheway » July 18th, 2015, 2:11 pm

Thanks guys, sounds like a long range fuel tank would be a good long term investment, although jerry cans will have to suffice for now. So carrying jerry cans inside the car is legal? That's my preferred option for carrying jerries. I don't think plastic jerry cans, when tight enough, would leak any fumes at all. What with their rubber seals and all. Cheers, Jim

hoyks
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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by hoyks » July 18th, 2015, 6:48 pm

Most, if not all, of the Dangerous Goods legislation is written for people carrying commercial quantities, so it isn't a good idea to put a 200L drum of unleaded in the back of a wagon and secure it with some telstra rope.

They aren't going to legislate that you need to get a ute to bring home a tin of mower fuel, just advise 'best practice' (approved container, stored upright etc). don't do anything stupid and you should be right.

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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 18th, 2015, 10:51 pm

Moving on to the 'sagging springs' problem, the best way to deal with them & fix the sag problem is to replace them, making sure that your new springs are up to carrying the loads you expect to regularly carry now & later on, as well as doing any lifting & catering for the weight of mods etc (don't forget an extra 70 or so litres of fuel in an LR Tank will probably add about 100kg to your static load, that's even before you add the weight of roof racks & their luggage load, a winch, bull bar, side steps/rock rails, 60 litres of water & a tank/water bladder, and a 2nd spare plus all your food & other camping gear) talking about tyres, ie the spare & the road tyres, it's a good idea to make sure you've fitted LT Rates tyres (Light Truck construction) & not P rated (passenger construction) because all that extra load can exceed the load rating of many P rated tyres in the smaller or lower profile sizes & less aggressive tread patterns, and all that extra weight can add up very quickly!

It's important that you watch the vehicle GVM too, & make sure all your accessories & mods don't blow your vehicle payload & make it so that just 1 occupant & a cut lunch exceeds the GVM Just don't laugh, it happens!! I had to 'counsel' a Jeep Cherokee driver who wanted to come on a Simpson Desert Trip I was running, but if he'd taken all the gear he wanted to as well as all the bar-work on his vehicle he would've blown the fancy low profile tyres he was running AND the Jeep's GVM!! After convincing him he didn't really need the shower & the kitchen sink plus a lot of other junk, that his brush guards wouldn't really be necessary in the desert, and that he really DID need to run a set of LT rated All Terrain tyres on 16" rims instead of the 40 profile slicks on shiny 20" rims that he ran around town, he ended up having a great trip & really catching the 4WD bug! His vehicle is now running 35's, has a substantial suspension lift AND trimmed & flared guards as well as an LR Tank, a Detroit Locker, & a bunch of other off roading type mods, and is one of the gnarliest & off road capable Cherokee's you'll ever see - none of this low profile shiny on-road/around town stuff for him any more!! ;) )

Back to springs, cheaper alternatives include getting the springs re-set, but they rarely last as long as a new set of springs & generally sag within 20K kms or so. Or you could look at fitting things like the load carrying Air bags that are similar to those heavy transport vehicles use (fairly expensive to do right & not really suited to leaf springs); or the cheaper 'ride levelling' air bags, but they aren't meant to be used to regain height on permanently sagged springs, they are intended for short term ride levelling on springs slightly sagged due to holiday or weekend loads - if they hafta run more than about 5 psi in them for more than a couple of weeks, expect chassis cracking or failures eventually!! The best bet is the first one, fitting new springs suited to the ride height & loads you expect to run - doesn't hurt to fit shocks matched to the height & loads too, the shocks you currently have are probably stuffed anyway, especially if they've been on the car for more than a couple of hundred K kms already!! ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

XJalltheway
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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by XJalltheway » July 20th, 2015, 3:39 pm

Ok, thanks. I was wanting to eventually put a 2" lift kit on it, so I'll try and replace the springs before/during the lift. And I'll definitely get a LR fuel tank when I can (after new heavy duty springs). Only problem is, I can't see any room underneath the Jeep for a LR fuel tank.

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Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by Peter Aawen » July 20th, 2015, 10:38 pm

For the Cherokee's like yours, most of the big name mobs make replacement tanks - basically just removing & replacing the original tank with a stronger & squarer tank that pretty much fills ALL of the available space in the same position, uses the original filler, usually uses the original sender & fuel gauge, the original fuel lines, & don't need mods to the exhaust but do benefit from HD springs & shocks to carry the extra weight; and they generally get tank capacities of about 120 or so litres! :thumb:

The downside is that generally they cost something near $1K new! :o
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

XJalltheway
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Posts: 32
Joined: June 21st, 2015, 6:39 pm

Re: Questions regarding fuel range, jerry cans, and suspensi

Unread post by XJalltheway » July 21st, 2015, 8:21 am

Awesome! I'll definitely put a LR fuel tank on my growing list of mods to be done. One other thing, would you be able to suggest a good brand of replacement springs? I've heard on another forum that OME springs are good and around $100-$150 each.

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