Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Needs new ECU!

fr2007
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Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Needs new ECU!

Unread post by fr2007 » February 22nd, 2016, 8:40 pm

Gents ive got a starting issue with my PJ Ranger, manual, TD, 2007, 205,000km, standard, with no mods, only catch can.

It Started last week.

When turning the ignition switch for the first time when cold, she just turns over and doesnt start.
Turn the ignition off and then have a second go and she starts, and runs fine.
This has been happening for the last week, on most starts.

Today,, the same thing happened , but this time, straight after she started, it pulled an engine light.

On the scan gauge, the code, is
P0191 - Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Signal Circuit Fault.

Has anyone experienced this before ?

what was needed to fix the issue ?

Paul.

bigvince
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by bigvince » March 8th, 2016, 10:25 pm

hi fr2007 I have just had the same problem fixed.I did find on ford australia forums a guy called nickoff posted the exact symptoms I had on a thresd headed pj ranger wont stay primed on 21/6/14. It is a faulty ecu.
We run two 07 pj rangers so I eventually swopped out the ecu's and the problem of the orange lights ie engine and glow plug not lighting when the ignition is turned on. (then it will not start ) moved with the faulty ecu. I could not start either pj as the ecu's need to be coded for the particular car they are in.
Note a new ecu costs $2100.00. Ford sayes they never break and they never sell new ones. only Ford can code them.
To cut a long story short John Hughes Ford in Perth now has experience with this and I am collecting my repaired pj tomorrow cost $2100 +2 hrs labour. Good luck. BTW the non starting gets worse and worse from say starting one in five tries untill the last time I tried swiching the ignition on 200 times.

fr2007
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by fr2007 » March 9th, 2016, 11:53 pm

yes I confirm the same .
when ignition is on reds , and I don't see the orange engine and glow plug lamp, she doesn't fire.
pull key out of ignition and try again , orange lights show and engine starts .
now when the orange lamps show up, I hear a relay click in the engine bay .

my assumption is that I have a faulty relay ?

does anyone know which relay it could ?

the error code received I believe is a result of cranking with it not starting .

I hope I don't have a faulty ecu.

bigvince
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by bigvince » March 13th, 2016, 11:31 pm

Hi I am sorry I think I have bad news for you.We also had the clicking relay that did not click when the orange lights did not light up. The first thing I did was to take it to a private non ford service station. they changed the filter and reset the fault light . When it happened again and the light came on again I went back and was told it would be a pump or injector fault and cost about $6000, needless to say I left in a hurry and will never go back there.Took the car to an injector specialist and he checked the injectors wich he said were good, he noticed the orange lights werenot comming on and changed a relay on the rail which did not cure the problem.i changed the ignition switch -the electrical part also no cure. We then swopped every relay we could find. we are lucky we have two pj rangers.(perhaps that is not lucky). I have been told from a few sources the wires bridging to the engine get hot and break. Thess were checked with a bussing continuity meter by disconnecting the wire at the engine and pushing a needle into the same wire as far away from the engine as possible they all checked out good.
Then I bit the bullet and swopped the ecus between the 2 pjs we have. The problem moved with the ecu. of course neither car would start as they have to be coded for the car to do that.
This is not a common problem I have found 3 guys with this me no 2 you no 3 all 3 are 2007 pj Rangers.
If you would like to chat further give us a call 0439904376 I assume you are in Australia. keep in mind I amin Perth so please don t call at 7am Sydney time.
Cheers
Vince

fr2007
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by fr2007 » March 15th, 2016, 10:40 pm

Big vince , i hope your wrong .. lol..

fr2007
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Where will I find the ECU and Engine Relay on a PJ Ranger?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 8th, 2016, 2:14 pm

Gents can anyone help with the location of engine relay and ECU on the PJ ranger 3.0 td

fr2007
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Re: Where will I find the ECU and Engine Relay on a PJ Range

Unread post by fr2007 » April 24th, 2016, 12:24 am

Since no one knows....
I found it
Right side of accelerator pedal.

fr2007
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 24th, 2016, 12:31 am

Big Vince,
I regretfully admit, that what you say is correct.
I have a faulty Ecu.
I spent a day , taking voltages , at Ecu pins, relays etc etc and power is reaching the Ecu. No orange lights no start.
ford in Sydney quoted me 1950 for an new ecu., ouch.....
Second hand are 150 to 300.
Concerns that they need some sort of programming ?
Not sure...
Paul

fr2007
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 24th, 2016, 12:33 am

You're also correct that it gets worse.
I currently spend 5 mins prior to leaving work in the mornings, switching the key from off to reds continuously until I get the orange lights.

fr2007
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Any ideas/fixes?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 24th, 2016, 12:36 am

P0191, was a symptom, of initially cranking the starter continuously on reds only.
then when getting it to start with the orange lights on. The fuel pressure was different to what the computer expected and therefore threw that code.

I hope this post can help someone in the future, because it is not a common problem.

Paul.

fr2007
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PJ Can I Install a second hand ECU ?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 24th, 2016, 12:44 am

PJ ranger, manual 3.0 L tD, nov 2007 model.

New Ecu cost from Syd, is 1950... Yes 2 k.

Gents, I have a faulty ECU.
Is it as easy as
1.buy a second hand one,
2.install and
3. driveway?

There are some posts that suggest that there might be an immobiliser, and the keys need to be coded and programmed for the car etc etc. is this true ?

How do I know that I have an immobiliser? My keys look very basic, with no buttons on them, only solid plastic.

Any info is appreciated.
Paul

fr2007
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Re: PJ Can I Install a second hand ECU ?

Unread post by fr2007 » April 29th, 2016, 10:08 pm

Gents,
Don't all reply at once.
Immobiliser present , a plain key confirmed this , no starter with plain key.
I Obtained a second hand ecu.

Threw it on , car did not start, although starter was working.

Took car to local ford dealer, they told me to bring all my keys.

Took one hr to get my car to start in the morning, yes one hr of switching ignition on/off, until I got an engine light . Got to ford.

They transferred my ecu program from my original Ecu to the second hand ECU. While they did this they did an update to the program, (the transfer also erased my ECU ).

ford attempted to now start the car with 2nd hand ECU , nothing, crank crank , no fire.

They then told me they needed to call Melbourne and find out, investigate more , because they had never tried a second hand ECU before, bla bla bla,
Asked me to leave the car with them , I Said no,

So now, they needed to remove the program from the second hand ECU and put it back into my original ECU, so then I could attempt to start the car ( maybe an hr worth of switching ignition on off).

After the transfer was completed , the car starts normally, problem seems fixed .

They put it down to my ECU had a glitch and now since the program left my ECU and got reinstalled it's fixed..

Time will tell.

may4ield
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Needs new ECU!

Unread post by may4ield » August 28th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Hey FR2007, I'm having the same problems as you. Would be really helpful to know whether refreshing/updating your old ECU fixed the problem permanently or did it come back down the track? Your answer would be much appreciated.

Peter Aawen
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Needs new ECU!

Unread post by Peter Aawen » August 28th, 2018, 4:30 pm

Hi May4ield, did you check out the thread on FR2007's injector problems that followed? Here 'tis:
viewtopic.php?f=118&t=160341&p=1828484#p1828484

I don't think we've seen FR since then, or shortly thereafter... but he did get his vehicle running really well! ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

may4ield
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Re: Engine won't start & P0191 code shows? Needs new ECU!

Unread post by may4ield » September 30th, 2018, 12:34 pm

Ok so the problem has been fixed, it was the ECU causing the fault. We managed to get hold of a second hand ECU with matching key barrel and keys. But there's another part that we didn't know about. It's a Mitsubishi part (imobilizer) located under the steering collum, all three of these part need to match in order to work. Once all 3 parts were fitted, it starts perfect and fault has gone. So in case anyone finds this post in the future looking for a resolution for themselves, can confirm that a second hand ECU worked for me and saved me a lot of money. I've included a picture of the three parts that need to be swapped over.
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