Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas?

dave1tech
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by dave1tech » January 27th, 2014, 2:26 pm

Hi Guys
going to head out for a drive this afternoon after after having a play around with a few earth points. will let you know how I go.

does anyone have the wiring diagram for the ute that they could upload just so that I am able to have a decent look at what is connected to what.

hopefully together we can figure this out.


Cheers
Dave

dave1tech
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by dave1tech » January 27th, 2014, 11:26 pm

just an update took the ute out for a run this afternoon. after fixing an issue that I had discovered with the Auto computer loom. when they fitted the second tray and battery they had crushed the loom, shorted the thick green with red trace to another thinner green cable and a few others. at this stage the 4wd will turn on and off and also engage the selected 4H or 4L and disengage. I cycled the switch on/off 4H 4L about 6 times over various terrains and it didn't have any issues.

just wondering if MYDMAX maybe on to something, a dodgy earth wire or ground to chassis that is causing our issues.
if anyone else ever pulls apart tape on the transmission computer loom do you have a few wires that have been rejoined as a 1 in 2 out and wrapped in tape?

will keep trying the 4wd system as there seems to be multiple things that fix the issue.

will keep everyone updated.

Cheers
Dave

fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » January 28th, 2014, 8:44 pm

hey Dave...

Try the link below for the wiring diagram. Pages 55 to 55D covers the 4x4 control system..

Edited for copyright protection reasons

Thanks for keeping us updated

Cheers
Rob

dave1tech
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by dave1tech » February 1st, 2014, 8:25 pm

Cheers for that fleetwood.

Have taken it for a few runs since discovering a shorted wire out of 14 runs cycling through 4H 4L and 2H i only had the issue arise when switching from 4H to 2H. this happened in the middle of testing after getting the ute up to speed on the road it switched off the lights and came back up to operating correctly Speedo Tacho Gearing etc.took it back off road and the issue didn't happen again.
Going to go through and check all the earth points tomorrow and see how we go.

will keep everyone updated.

mamoth
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Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » February 2nd, 2014, 1:44 pm

G/day
just got back from doing a bit of 4x4 ing every thing still working fine
cheers
steve
s elsworth

dave1tech
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by dave1tech » February 2nd, 2014, 3:19 pm

I re terminated the earth point in the engine bay that has the 2 thin wires and a thicker wire attached to it bolted to the inner guard on the passenger side behind the headlight. went for a 30KM drive switching on and off 4H 4L and 2H and not a single issue. the 4wd was switched as required.

might be worth undoing the bolt and giving it a sand back and see if that fixes the issue.

Cheers

Dave

Riley_86
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Riley_86 » February 7th, 2014, 7:13 pm

Hi guys,
Ive had the same issue after purchasing my 09 t diesel (130,000kms) 2 months ago privately. With in a week of buying it I had the light come on and off a few times, affecting the speedo also. but more importantly the auto gear box was playing up... slipping and clunking into gears. had an auto trans guy look at it. found the filter clogged with metal shavings. long story short the transmission had spat out the thrust washers into the box and chewed them up... common problem apparently.. $3670 for a full reco, replacing the washers, worn parts and parts that commonly break further down the track. that was before xmas. after coming back from a holiday the 4wd lo light came on a few times then off..... now has stayed on permanently for 3 weeks now. spent $$ trying to diagnose it. traced it to the 4wd module (90% sure). couldn't find a second hand one anywhere... ordered a NEW one $589! swapped it over this arvo myself................


STILL NOT FIXING THE PROBLEM!

so, don't buy a new module. if we all have the same problem then its not the module...
I spoke to my auto elect and he is rather upset on my behalf too..
hopefully somebody out there finds a solution to this problem. have spent almost 1K already with no result.
the only good news is that if you completely disconnect the 4wd module your speedo reading goes back to normal. thank god!
this is how I will leave it for a while............ while I try sell this spare 4wd module second hand on the net...


Riley

mydmax
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » February 7th, 2014, 8:01 pm

Riley_86
The fact the lights come on and go off again at random would indicate to me that the earthing points somewhere are intermittent or a wire is shorting to earth (even though the 4wd system isn't in that position) and it indicates as though it is in 4wd, so the module follows what it is meant to do or gets confused.

Carefully look at all wiring loom sections, particularly under body and to the front axle, where they/it goes around sharp edges or is through body clamp tags etc. It has to be something obvious but hard to find.

Riley_86
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Riley_86 » February 7th, 2014, 8:05 pm

Yeah thanks Max,
Putting it on the back burner for a while... now that the speedo is working again I'm not so stressed out..
Just cant use 4WD, but couldn't when the light came on anyway..

Cheers guys

mamoth
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Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » February 7th, 2014, 9:04 pm

g/day riley
leave your self a coupla days and make sure the esky is full before u start
good luck
mamoth
s elsworth

dave1tech
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Joined: September 14th, 2011, 11:45 am

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by dave1tech » February 10th, 2014, 4:21 pm

Hi All
have done about 250km of 4WD work Hi and Low along with switching out of 4WD and have not had an issue since i have run a dedicated earth line to the 2 earth tabs on the inner passenger side guard.

hopefully it continues to behave itself, this double tab was fairly corroded and not making contact very well.

if its easy for you to access maybe make this point your first try.

Dave

fleetwood
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by fleetwood » February 11th, 2014, 11:57 am

Hey guys... Haven’t found the definite problem, so can only offer my own feedback..

Haven’t had any trouble for weeks (been deliberately switching to 4WDH daily & 4WDL weekly). Last Saturday, come out of a hardware, go to start her & the dreaded lights came on & stayed on ... After reading Riley_86 comments, I thought at least I can get my Speedo back to normal by unplugging the 4x4 module, which I did (thanks for that tip Riley)

Took it for a short drive parked it for about an hour & thought I would plug the module back in... turned ignition on, no lights. Tested it 3 or 4 more times over the course of several hours, no lights... Come out next morning, yep, lights are back on.. Tried unplugging module for an hour, didn’t fix it...

Took it for a drive with lights still on. Got up to about 90KMH & they go out & speedo returns to normal. Tried switching to 4WDH, both lights come on but not in 4WD..( situation normal when this happens). Stop, turn engine off for a minute, take off again, drive around for about 5 mins at 60KMH, lights still on. Get on the expressway, take it up to about 90KMH & again lights go out & Speedo returns... Switch it 4WDH & this time all is okay... It’s actually in 4WD... stop & select 4WDL, works perfectly.. Back to 2WD, no lights, all is well... Has been that way now since Sunday morning..

What does it all mean?? By process of elimination...

Bu my own experience & that of others, it appears it is not the 4x4 relay as I has assumed...

Riley has bought a new 4x4 module & that didn’t fix it, so rule that out too..

I have replaced the twin RFW solenoids by the brake booster & tested the actuator, all is well there so rule that out...

I have checked & rechecked every earth point I can find, certainly all those involved with this system. All have a good earth so I am ruling that out too (for the moment anyway)..

Seems to me that the 4x4 module is getting some false input from somewhere. As far as I know, there is only one sensor that comes into play in the 4x4 system in an auto, & that is the speed sensor on the back of the transfer case... I THINK it is only supposed to come into play when you stop, select neutral & switch to 4WDL, but if it’s faulty I wonder if that may be the prob?..

The stealership wants $300 for this tiny thing & I can’t afford to spend that to experiment next time the lights come on. Wreckers is unlikely ... Don’t know if there is a way for this thing to be tested?

I also wonder if attempting to start in neutral instead of park may achieve something, will try that next time the lights come on...

Maybe together we can eventually solve this mystery... Thanks to all for your input. Don’t be shy in making suggestions if you have an idea

Cheers
Rob

mydmax
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mydmax » February 11th, 2014, 2:24 pm

fleetwood
If the offending module which is switching the lights on is wired to a plug which then has an earth/negative point, it may be the pins in the plug are not correct.

Sometimes, in multiple pin connectors one (or more) wire can be not quite clipped into the connector and although it usually touches, sometimes it doesn't, and that could be the cause the problem.

If you have any plugs/connectors apart, have a close look to see if ALL pins both male and female are the same depth from the edge.

The fault/indication will be the same as the earth fault but it just isn't where you expect to find the no earth/neg contact.

I found one such thing on the Dmax and also one on my old 60 series engine temp sender.

Riley_86
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Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by Riley_86 » February 11th, 2014, 7:52 pm

Glad to have helped Fleetwood.
So, after several days of the module being disconnected I selected neutral, plugged the module back in and started the ute.. the lights still on!
Also once in the earlier days of it happening I had read that someone got their speed up to 80kmh and the light went off.. mine did the same one at least one occasion.
If anyone is interested I have that 4wd module on eBay for $325!.... New from ford they are $589... only one on there.
haha.
I did take my ute to a private auto elect twice with no result, apart from him thinking it was a faulty 4wd module.. I had read somewhere else that their selector switch was faulty on the centre console.. got my auto elect to check that all out the second time I took it back to him, again with no fault there.

good thing to note!; I have after market accessories being an 'Anderson plug' fitted in the rear of the tub, also a canopy with break light/interior light fitting and also a 'electronic caravan breaking system'. All of these aftermarket accessories must be wired into somewhere... maybe not correctly???
if anyone has NO after market accessories fitted and is still experiencing the 4wd low light coming on uncontrollably please mention this...
thanks guys.

mamoth
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Joined: January 2nd, 2013, 6:35 pm
Location: brisbane, QLD

Re: Wierd goings on... 4x4 & 4L lights staying on! Any ideas

Unread post by mamoth » February 20th, 2014, 8:35 pm

every thing must be goog woops 2 many beers nice 2 see

cheers

stevw beer again lol
s elsworth

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