4JX1 total power loss- back from the dead- now running!

toobs
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4JX1 total power loss- back from the dead- now running!

Unread post by toobs » February 2nd, 2013, 2:14 pm

Hi guys

I've trawled the last dozen pages without much success so here's my problem-

Did an oil change with 10W/30. Previous oil was a 10W/30 of a different brand.
After less than 10km of local driving noticed a missing upon initiation of acceleration.
Car sat in driveway for a few hours. Started, got to end of street, sudden power loss causing a stall between gears.
Several attempts to start resulted in idling back up the street into the driveway. Any application of throttle, even with no load causes engine to stall.
Now the engine dies after a few moments of poor idle.
Have not noticed any cross-contamination of coolant or oil on visual inspection.

Another thread viewtopic.php?f=105&t=135268 suggests an oil pick up line.
From further reading, it appears incorrect oil would cause a total inability of the engine to turn over. I haven't changed viscosity (even when I have previously, 15W/40 has been fine) yet the timing of the issue seems to coincide with an oil change and the engine does turn over.
Is it possible that there is a mechanical failure in the fuel pump due to age?

Any feedback most welcome. As its a weekend, I'll try and get the jackaroo skull dragged to the diesel mechanic on Monday.
Last edited by toobs on July 8th, 2014, 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Captain Cupcake
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by Captain Cupcake » February 2nd, 2013, 3:04 pm

Try this forum, they may be able to help :)

http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php ... technical/

SaltHorse
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by SaltHorse » February 11th, 2013, 8:17 pm

Hi, sounds like you're having a bad run. The placard on my Jack recommends 5W40 for the 4JX1. There's a lot of people on the forum recommended above who say not to run anything else or suffer injector o'ring failure.
I have found though, that both this forum and the one above lack results. There's lots of people posting 4JX1 problems and lots of possible solutions but not so much follow up.
I would be really interested to find out what has caused your power loss so don't forget to post here if/when you get to the bottom of the problem.

Cheers,

Salty.
1990 Suzuki Vitara 1.6
2000 Holden Jackaroo 3.0 TD viewtopic.php?f=22&t=135354
2002 Nissan Patrol ZD30 viewtopic.php?f=187&t=145261

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » February 14th, 2013, 11:35 am

I will provide results where possible. After a day a went back and tried to start the car and it refused to turn over altogether.
It's now spent 3 days at Holdens on the diagnostic machine and had various mechanics poking it but as yet I am no closer to finding out what the problem is.

I had a friend with a 4XJ1 who had similar symptoms, ie car died after a service. After a lot of poking and prodding it turned out that an oil pressure switch/solenoid was faulty. $1500 later and he was on his way. I think the high cost on that occasion was due to the fact the mechanic spent a lot of time trying t diagnose the problem. Unfortunately in my case, if it was an oil switch the diagnostic would have picked it up. I'll be suggesting to Holden they try the fuel system to see if there is any fuel being pumped around while cranking on the starter.

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » February 18th, 2013, 3:42 pm

So...it turns out that the throttle position sensor may be the problem. The mechanic found that the voltage output from the TPS would drop from ~2.5V to 0.5V on application of the throttle, rather than a continuous change with throttle application it is either one figure or the other.
I have been quoted $1200 for a genuine Holden throttle body + TPS but have found a genuine TPS from ebay for $170 which Holdens will gladly fit. Hopefully that will solve the problem.

I'll update with another post when I find out more.

SaltHorse
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by SaltHorse » February 18th, 2013, 6:48 pm

Well depending on how much labour they hit you with I think you've got out of it pretty good, all going well.
Looking forward to hearing the result.

Cheers,

Salty.
1990 Suzuki Vitara 1.6
2000 Holden Jackaroo 3.0 TD viewtopic.php?f=22&t=135354
2002 Nissan Patrol ZD30 viewtopic.php?f=187&t=145261

mydmax
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by mydmax » February 18th, 2013, 8:07 pm

How much is it just for a new TPS?

SaltHorse
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by SaltHorse » February 18th, 2013, 8:35 pm

He said $170 for a genuine from eBay. Pretty cheap, if it wasn't for the diagnosis it would be easy to fit at home.

Cheers,

Salty.
1990 Suzuki Vitara 1.6
2000 Holden Jackaroo 3.0 TD viewtopic.php?f=22&t=135354
2002 Nissan Patrol ZD30 viewtopic.php?f=187&t=145261

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » February 25th, 2013, 4:08 pm

Another update. The mechanic got the roo running, however it still kept stalling when coming to a stop at intersections unless he kept pumping the throttle. I can't remember if faults started coming up on the diagnosis machine now, but he had a closer look at the injector loom and found that it was so heavily contaminated with oil that it had to be replaced. So now I've had to order a new injector loom and oil pressure switch (to be on the safe side) and having the tappets checked/adjusted.

Parts should be in within the next day or so and if all goes well the car should be back on the road by the end of the week.

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » February 25th, 2013, 4:10 pm

And contrary to popular belief and my own personal opinion of Holden dealers up until this point, this mechanic actually knows what he is doing and is keen to get the car working. He's even been bypassing the service bloke at the counter and calling me directly to keep me updated!

SaltHorse
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by SaltHorse » February 25th, 2013, 5:38 pm

Geez, I hope this fixes the problem. Otherwise the parts will add up and you'll have a 4JX1 horror story to tell. We need some good news about this engine to keep the rest of us faithful.

Cheers,

Salty
1990 Suzuki Vitara 1.6
2000 Holden Jackaroo 3.0 TD viewtopic.php?f=22&t=135354
2002 Nissan Patrol ZD30 viewtopic.php?f=187&t=145261

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » February 28th, 2013, 7:57 pm

I also found out today that it is possible to replace two of the three injector seals on the 4XJ1 engine without removing the head. Whether or not these are the problem seals that are associated with the dreaded jackaboom problem I do not know. They are two o-ring seals that sit in two recesses in the injector sleeve- providing the engine is working well to start with (ie seals not damaged) it should be possible to remove the sleeves with a specific tool, replace the o-rings and reinsert. There is a third "crush seal" which appears to be a washer that gets crushed between the injector tip and the head when torqued up.

Maybe someone with a bit more knowledge can elaborate or correct me, but I will try to find out a bit more about this part of the engine.

Also, as the tappets are a bucket on shim, taking them out and then having shims made up is a very laborious task and the mechanic said that unless they are out by a long shot he won't pull them apart as it means a lot more time spent on the car. Notwithstanding the previous comment, the mechanic has in the past adjusted worn tappets on a 4XJ1 and found the improvement in general performance was significant.

SaltHorse
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by SaltHorse » February 28th, 2013, 8:08 pm

There's a step by step guide to injector o ring replacement on the Australia 4WD Forum. They have a massive amount of 4JX1 information. Unfortunately mostly negative.
The thread is here,http://forum.australia4wd.com/index.php ... p-by-step/

I think it would be awesome if Isuzu came up with a replacement injector that was reliable, because it would solve 95% of 4JX1 issues.

Cheers,

Salty.
1990 Suzuki Vitara 1.6
2000 Holden Jackaroo 3.0 TD viewtopic.php?f=22&t=135354
2002 Nissan Patrol ZD30 viewtopic.php?f=187&t=145261

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » March 15th, 2013, 2:41 pm

Working on the process of elimination, the mechanic has determined that the throttle control unit on the throttle body is cactus. I tried in vain to search for a replacement through the wreckers but gave up after at least a dozen calls. The people at Holden have felt sorry for me enough to offer a big discount on a new throttle body/control unit assembly.
It will be fitted early next week so fingers crossed it all comes together.

toobs
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Re: 4XJ1 total power loss and dies after idling

Unread post by toobs » April 7th, 2013, 12:58 pm

As it turns out, one of the injectors is faulty. The car runs like a dog when cold but after warming up is fine- this is according to the mechanic's test drive. Holden have advised that to replace the injector(s) it will cost approximately $3000 on top of the $4400 current repair bill and are unwilling to work on it further due to the prohibitive cost.

I am unsure of what I will b doing with the car when I get it back but I will most likely sell it complete or strip it for parts. If anyone is interested in sunraysia rims with brand new Bridgestone all terrains, jerry can with rack, rhino racks or other standard parts, keep your ears open.

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