Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Discuss technical aspects of your 4WD with other owners, and share your opinions
wombats80
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Air cleaner placement 80ser 6.5

Unread post by wombats80 » February 29th, 2016, 2:01 pm

Remembered to get those pics i mentioned ..
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Sluche
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Sluche » March 3rd, 2016, 10:34 am

thanks very much,

i've just ordered
http://www.marks4wd.com/mfk1411.html

and AC and Alt brackets, belts and airbox kit from Brunswick

and dropped $900 on new condenser, evap, tx valve, drier, fan and fan relay o-rings and Gas,
AC works good but fridgy told me the Compressor is a little tired, so no dramas going to the Toyota on one the brunswick bracket in the future. (assuming this is straight forward)

been an expensive couple of weeks... :(

AND... pretty sure i'll be up for a new exhaust or modification of my current one after the engine shift :(

my last hurdle will be the fan clutch, fan and shroud combination after the engine move. any suggestions here?
currently running the 3F shroud with the standard Toyota clutch and fan the 20mm move will put this too close to the rad for comfort.

i've read the but about Ford Falcon XA-XD HD hubs with the 10 blade fan with Adapter are shorter... any links to said adapter? i'm not entirely sure what i am looking for when looking for one?

Lastly, custom fan shrouds. Wombat your probably the only person to answer this one for me, (and the only one active atm) :)

where to go in Darwin to have a custom alloy shroud made? (i am assuming you made your own? want to make another? for a price of course.) or is there somewhere you went?

*EDIT: scratch that didn't see the last post on the previous page! my bad

thanks again

Steven.

Towie
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Towie » March 3rd, 2016, 10:45 am

Dam you have decent list going good luck with it and hope it all falls smoothly into place man.

wombats80
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by wombats80 » March 3rd, 2016, 10:40 pm

I read the articles way back about the falcon fan bits but back in the day, BD supplied an adaptor hub to mate the 3F viscous hub to the slightly different stud mounts of the GM water pump. That gave generous clearance between plastic blade and radiator core. In an effort to combat overheating issues i went to a slightly cumbersome effort of adapting a 1HZ viscous coupling which placed the fan a tad closer to the rad but that was a waste of time. It served duty for over 7 yrs b4 the plastic blade detonated just recently and i'm glad i kept the previous adaptor and a spare 3F hub. I switched back to the 3F. In both cases i had to choose a fan blade with the right offset to suit the app. Thank you Don Kyatt for filling the void, both times.

The Marks4wd bracketware will place fan-to radiator where it should be. Despite this i'm quite sure the fan placement between the original plastic shroud is higher, hence the need for a custom shroud.

With the BD supplied steel fan shroud, i cut n shut it to give me easy access to removing the radiator fan. Needed to do that a couple times in the past. Years later, that mod was welcome when needing to change out the busted fan blade otherwise it was a complete root to remove the entire shroud.

80series aircon bits aren't that costly but if the instal is outsourced, then maybe. Coils were so cheap and easy i used to replace it every 2 yrs or so.

Not sure what additions you need for an exhaust upgrade if you already have a 6.5 but Toms Mufflers are legends in the art of fabricating exhaust. Out of the 8yrs i've had my instal i've taken it back once to have the exhaust stop clunking against something when i shut the engine down.

wombats80
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by wombats80 » March 3rd, 2016, 11:18 pm

And with the aircon, only the suction hose was modified to clear underneath the intake ducting. Maybe 2 welds ..

Sluche
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Sluche » March 4th, 2016, 2:40 pm

hmm the fan scenario is an odd one,

only because i have a Toyota clutch and fan on my chev already... doesn't appear to be any special adaptation in place either..
but when i shift the motor forward i'm certain won't have a comfortable amount of room for the fan between the radiator.

i'm confused because you said you went to an effort to fit it? maybe my waterpump or pump flange is different... who knows i have nothing to compare mine to.

I just purchased a 1KZ fan as its a 10 blade and slighty larger than the 8 blade standard hz unit (its not going to fit in my currant shroud... ) and its probably not going to fit when the motor moves... not really sure why i bought it actually.

from Les's older posts on the XD fan and clutch i've been reading and re reading... starting to think the fan adapter was a custom part created for him or by him for his application.... i guess this is probably not a path i'm going to head down...

I've been trying to search for a shorter clutch unit for a while now and the information i need isn't readily available, might need to take a trip to a wreckers for this

wombats80
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by wombats80 » March 4th, 2016, 10:20 pm

Trying to recall some of the conversations with Les. I think his mention of the XD coupling was to suit serpentine belt app? I'm probably wrong. Without delving back in to those posts, i dont recall much in the way of further discussion on the topic.

The effort i went to was retrofitting a 1HZ viscous coupling instead of the recommended 2F coupling. There are 2 differences between the 2 couples, slight difference in the stud pattern but bigger difference between the hub and flange, the 2F is short and the 1HZ longer. There's not any point to discussing what i did to make the 1HZ fit but it did negate the use of the spacer. The spacer would lucky to be over an inch thick but is there simply to provide a means of attaching the T coupling to the GM water pump because the stud pattern is different. The adaptor uses counter-sunk allen bolts to attach it to water pump flange then the T hub bolts up to its prescribed pattern. That's the same time i decided to mod the fan shroud to make removing the fan assembly a cinch. Otherwise it's a beeartch to do.

Back with the original instal, I went to use my 1HZ fan blade but it fouled the radiator. I went to Don Kyatt and looked through their stock to choose one i thought suitable. Never did source what model the blade was intended for but had the offset i needed for clearance. Same again with the switcharoonie back to to the 2F coupling 8yrs later, asked for the wrong blade and went back to find one to suit

Ok, being lazy now and not going back to read posts but why are you moving the motor forward now and got issues with fan placement? I thought your 80 has the instal but its flogged and you need a rebuild? The adaptation of the chev to the 80 required the gearbox coupled with engine to be moved forward 20mm. I think that was just for cyl head clearance to firewall. Marks4wd supplied the rear tailshaft spacer, i slotted the gearbox cross-member and as mentioned, used marks bracketware to retain the original 1ZH engine mounts. Had to re-slot the gearbox stick hole in the floor to make the rubber boot fit right. The stench of gear oil vapour escaping into the cabin was untenable.

Sluche
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Sluche » March 5th, 2016, 9:05 am

soo the motivation to move the motor forward comes from a few issues

- mostly being that all the available accessories for 6.5 converted chevs are made to suit a motor and box mounted 15-20mm further forward than mine. and i am in no way a fabricator to make all of my own bits. buying them is the easiest option.
- the turbo dump and brake master clearance is terrible (and concerning to me) even after swapping to a prado master and running longer brake lines to the opposite side.
- the dump pipe has no space currently and bumps on the chassis where it kicks up for the front suspension, moving the motor forward will allow me to have it angled back into more free space created by the engine shift.
- i'm under the impression that the motor may even mount lower in the bay after the switch to factory mounts and marks adapters.... this is just a theory, but would solve for a few other accessibility issues iv had.
- i'll be able to buy replacement mounts in the future if i ever need them.
- BD airbox kit will fit (hopefully) and then i can install the second battery tray behind the driver headlight and not on the passenger inner guard where i would like to eventually have an airdog lift pump/filter/water & air separator installed to resolve my cranky holley blue lift pump and dump the factory filter. (this will fix some of the many fuel hose diameter changes and connections that are all around the engine bay too)

the tired motor i can live with for now.. i'd like to have the rest of the car sorted before swapping it out just to make the job a weekend thing really.

so i'm trying to get all the V belt accessories that i will be happy with and have them installed in better suited locations, also fix intake and exhaust and my terrible diff ratio's etc. wiring and other accessories etc etc... once everything under the bonnet is sweet a replacement motor will be a piece of cake. a wallet devastating piece...

wombats80
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by wombats80 » March 9th, 2016, 10:28 pm

Ok looks like someone wedged your 6.5 in, early days. Even with the 20mm forward spacing with mine, my turbo is mighty close to the factory brake lines exiting the BM but the lagging takes some or all care of heat exposure.

It's been awhile since i did my instal but i remember the HZJ75 i sourced my 6.5 from and it had a Marks bellhousing that was ditched to use my existing 80ser 1HZ bellhousing using a Marks adaptor. I'm sure that adaptor measured 20mm thick then the further 20mm forward spacing, using Marks 1HZ engine mount bracketware and notching the GB x-member as discussed earlier.

Not sure about your description of dump pipe bumping chassis where it kicks up for front suspension but if you mean it's hitting the chassis close to where the trailing arm connects the chassis simply means who ever fabricated the exhaust was more worried about when dinner was ready. The exhaust should run outside the chassis rail as it exits the turbo and loops back over behind the gearbox x-member then under body .. not difficult for experienced local fabricators

The HZJ75 engine bay i pulled my 6.5 from look like a cluster f**k. There was some not so amazing bracket ware and joinery holding things like an alternator on. It had a hi-mount alternator like yours (including vac-pump) I still have the paperwork and some pictures, from the company that installed it. I think they largely dealt with combine harvesting, fruit picking and branched out to diversify

Dont knock the std 4.11 diff ratios. They were lots of fun.

Facet. Face it. The face of reliable fuel supply. After running a number of unreliable lift pumps.

Sluche
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Sluche » March 10th, 2016, 8:22 am

your 75 donor and mine could of been thrown together by the same people.... I'm not a perfectionist and i know this will never be a "professional" install however a little form to go with some function couldn't hurt.... just wrapping wires in conduit and throwing them over the motor is not my preferred method of wiring things for example.

i'm not a fan of the 411's as first gear seems to have no apparent purpose. and with 130kmph zones i'd like to cruse with the rest of pack at actual highway speeds (i'v been driving a LN106 for the past 4-5 years... non turbo... 5th gear is for slowing down in that thing)

for the best understanding of my exhaust issue, you need to know that it runs internal to the chassis rails the whole length of the car. (a pic would help here but i don't have one) this may be partly due to the absolutely huge Vacuum canister i have under the drivers side sill to collect enough vacuum from the pump (the one in a regular distributor location) to actually operate the brakes... it works well... for now so i won't touch it.

speaking of harvesters my current Alt and AC Comp models,
alt: Bosch 0 120 484 027 (FITS JOHN DEERE)
AC: TM-15 # 488-45011 (freight-liner truck compressor)

i'm back driving it to and from work again (all of 6min to the bus stop from my place) had the missus drop me off in it the other day, could hear her giving it ***** almost the whole way home :D will be happy when i can spend on accessories instead of repairs though.

wombats80
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by wombats80 » March 11th, 2016, 10:03 pm

The std 411's were fine at the time but did upgrade to 3.73. I remember Les said i wouldn't look back & of course he was right. I've never switched std rolling dia on tyres despite changing to 16" rims. The 10% increase over the stock gearing a Marks speedo cable adaptor did the speedo correction required

Not so sure about needing a huge vacuum canister but then you'd mount that big HJ47 canister where it belongs down below under near the chassis .. unless the previous owner cadence braked most roads they went then lots of vacuum on call would be a distinct advantage. I've often mused over how poor i feel my 80ser braking is but it didn't get worse when the V8 went in. Mine is the older school rear drum brake model and on some newer models, at the time, i thought my braking felt better. At least my handbrake always worked better :-) Things got worse, i believe, when i ditched the genuine master cylinder and went aftermarket. I remember going through 2 rooters until the 3rd gave me a better pedal that for love nor money could not be achieved with the 1st 2.

johnlyle
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by johnlyle » April 7th, 2016, 6:17 pm

Hi Sluche.Not been around for a while.Noticed that your air filter housing top is the std 1hz type.On my old girl I have the l/c petrol top which dose not look like it has been punched in.Mine gives full flow to the engine.Having said that ,mine is a N/A in an old troopy.In comment about the gearing! I have 3.7 diffs in mine and that is fine with 265/75 or 32s which gives me 100km@2000 rpm.The engine runs sweet at this and up to 120 kph.Having said that Scotty at BD runs 33,s at the std 4.1 on his N/a 45/s 6.5 and if I had my time over again ,that is what I would have done.However a turbo is a different kettel of fish, and rest his soul Les, and Wombats are spot on the money with what they say.Yes these engines have bulk torque and work like dogs down low (better than ANY rice burner) but they also like to rev freely.Will be following your project with interest. Regards Lylo. PS.My step son is in now in the Chev V8 family having bought a 75s tray which has to be soughted out abit like yours .

Sluche
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Sluche » April 8th, 2016, 8:25 am

Hi Johnlyle,

i have the kit now for the brunswick airfilter box etc. but i cannot make it up and install it till i have the motor out and the mounts dealt with...

in regards to gearing, I might have to get a tiny tach to really know what the motors doing.. i have a tach from alt, and it can be calibrated but I've no way to measure its accuracy (i did sit the motor on governor for a little and adjust the tach to 3600rpm but thats about it...however i'm pretty certain that my rev's are way high when i am anywhere near the 100kmph zone

annoyingly there was such a good deal on a boat that a chunk of change when that way... and this too is making it more difficult to find a time to pull apart the tow car... (which is currently running too bad to safely tow see below)

in other news i may have tried and failed to resolve my lift pump scenario. (worlds loudest lift pump hard mounted to the firewall!)

so from my understanding 10psi but no less than 4 -5 for a good supply to the IP and the holley blue mounted to the fire wall is rated to max 14psi... (apparently good for waste vegie oil setups...) but probably too much for normal viscosity diesel... anyhow swapped pumps to the correct lift pump, couldn't get it to run right if run at all (air locks in fuel line, had to bleed and re bleed injectors to get it going. motor would stall out and need to be rebleed etc etc). threw in the towel and went back to the holley blue, now i have an air leak causing hard starting and stalling (not too big a deal i will find it! and fix it. BUT i also have overspending (which i am desperately hoping is somehow related to air in the system and not a failing Injector Pump)

i have on the way a new fuel filter, inline fuel pressure gauge, some fuel rated clear tubing etc etc... (ohh and a bunch of correct fittings instead of the brass barb types) to see if this resolves/determines the problem.

if someone could confirm that air in the system could cause over speeding that would be a huge relief. it doesn't drive well enough to use & when doing the 2000rpm test i can only hold 2k for 3-4seconds before it accelerated rapidly on its own, backing off the throttle it returns to idle just fine.

Annoyingly the only change has been the addition of an air-leak, the change from the first lift pump to second lift pump and back again to the original lift pump
:(

Shann Low
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by Shann Low » April 8th, 2016, 1:14 pm

110 pages and the Brunswick 6.2/6.5 diesel conversions are STILL overheating? :confused:

I got banned from another forum for expressing this opinion once.... but in for a penny in for a pound - I'll try one last time!.

How many liters of oil does it take to do a oil and filter service on the 6.2/6.5 liter Brunswick diesel engines?

The reason I ask this, is because n my similar V8 diesel (7.3 liter Navistar [International Harvester] T444E (444 cubic inch) intercooled Tdiesel in the F 250, it takes ~18 liters of oil for a full oil change!.

Versus how many liters of oil for the similar sized 6.5 Brunswick? 6 or 8 liters at most?

So a similar sized V8T diesel is s'posed to operate with only ~ 1/3rd to 1/2 the amount of oil in the sump?

On the T444E - there's an oil cooler radiator out front of the other 6 or so radiators / heat ex-changers mounted up front - that helps to cool the sump oil!.

Do the Brunswick V8's have Oil coolers?

What I was told YEARS ago by some knowledgeable mechanics who worked on these Brunswick engines was that the sump oil capacity is so small & with no oil cooler radiator - the oil acts like a heat soak the longer you drive and eventually the water cooling system just can't shed all the heat that's building up in the minimal amount of oil in the sump.

110 pages of people trying to make the water / cooling system perform better with 101 different modifications to it - when all you need to do is increase the sump oil capacity to about double and add in a big arsed oil cooler out front.

Either add "wings" to the sump to hold more oil OR - oil lines and oil cooler capacity and perhaos another 1 liter sub micron cotton wound oil bypass filter and there you have an extra 4 or 5 liters extra oil capacity & extra cooling straight away!

T/Diesels that use oil spray to wick heat of combustion away from the underside of the alloy piston crown, that hot oil (~650degrees C) drops back into the sump - it only makes sense to cool the oil - rather than rely on a substandard water cooling system to try and do it.

You can do 1000 mods to the water cooling system and only make very small incremental improvements - because your not fixing the major design/ engineering problem that these engines have ALWAYS had - minimal oil sump capacity and zero oil cooling!

The Brunswcks V8's are old US engineering from a country where half the time its snowing outside and they were non turbo'd originally - so now everyone wants to ask more of them in a country like Oz where the average daily temps are the same as death valley in the USA - without increasing the sump oil capacity or adding oil cooling!

In the Effie I ended up adding a 3 quart larger alloy sump with cast in cooling fins as well as a large 1 liter sub micron bypass oil filter canister & additional oil cooler radiator out front. That alone added almost 6 liters extra oil capacity.

And I already started out with almost 2 times the oil capacity of the Brunswick diesels.

I believe firmly that the overheat problems with Brunswick diesels in the outback heat of Oz is much less to do with the sub standard water cooling system than it is to do with a poorly engineered sump oil capacity and zero oil cooling.

Solve the oil quantity & cooling issues and I reckon the overheat water cooling system problems that cause such related issues as air con failures etc, will all just magically go away!

But Brunswick don't want their customers finding out about these design engineering failures... they make quite a pretty penny selling radiator water cooling system fixes for a problem they well know is oil becoming a heat sink in the sump related issue.

My 2C - I don't own a Brunswick T/Diesel so it's no skin off my nose if no one listens.

Cheers.

brendan_h
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Re: Chev 6.2/6.5L Diesel Engine Tips and Tricks

Unread post by brendan_h » April 12th, 2016, 8:00 pm

some good info in this thread but there is alot to sift threw so i might ask.
newly purchased gu with a na6.5 in it. Its only now just started to blow a little blue smoke under hard acceleration and reving.looking to be using oil as well though im still testing this. as its a weekend car at the moment i don't drive it often. Ive read many things from too thin of an oil, im running delo400 15-40 too light?, to the CDR being no good/even removing it. Too even adding a catch can.
2ndly
I'm looking at getting the redarc water and oil pressure gauge with the option 3rd temp reading for my 6.5NA chev. Just want to know where is a good place to put the pressure and temp sensor? Am i able to Tee into the hot side of the oil cooler for the temp, or would the cold side be better? I know ideally would be in the sump but im a bit worried the sensor would get knocked off while out 4wding, then we would have some real issue. As for the pressure I'm not really sure. I'm not very familiar with theses engines so pics or a good description would be much appreciated.

Thanks

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