Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Discuss technical aspects of your 4WD with other owners, and share your opinions
Timmo
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Timmo » January 15th, 2014, 8:39 pm

A water to air intercooler will still have a front mounted heat exchanger.
Cheers,

Nathan

Hotlux
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Hotlux » January 15th, 2014, 9:27 pm

Was 40 today, I live in Kalgoorlie so no a/c is not an option dod.
Yes, the core is similar dimensions to yours. I'm told it is the core Brunswick use for their V8 conversions.
The WTA intercooler is mounted across the tappet cover and the radiator and water pump are mounted in the side of the tub where a scoop has been made for fresh air induction.
Temps were down, I definitely had it wound up way too far. I thought I was in the ball park (not even close). Have to go a little further as I hit between 550-600 under high load in the 40deg heat and engine temps came up.

However, the power is starting to disappear and I'm not even sure it goes any better than the clapped out 2.4 I had in it. I expected a lot more from a 3.0L!!

I'm beginning to think that the CT20 turbo isn't up to the capacity of the 3.0l, has anyone had any experience with fitting a CT20 to a 5l??

Peter Aawen
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 15th, 2014, 10:08 pm

Don't despair until you get the thing diesel tuned properly! Getting things like the transfer pressure and the pump delivery matched to the injectors so that the whole lot delivers the optimal fuel at the right time for the amount of air that is being pumped in by the turbo can make a fairly significant difference - a proper diesel tune up generally makes a significant difference to any vehicle that's only had a turbo fitted & the fuel wound up; that approach is not the greatest, and given the right info from the proper equipment, a diesel tuner should be able to make the thing run a fair bit more efficiently, which is what yours ISN'T doing right now, hence the high EGT's and the overheating problems.

That said, just winding up the fuel will generally give you scads of power, but it generally comes at a cost in terms of longevity and reliability, and setting it properly might not give you quite the same power but it will usually give you better driveability, fuel economy, AND longevity & reliability too! ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

Hotlux
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Hotlux » January 15th, 2014, 10:42 pm

Thanks Peter,

I did notice when it does start running hot (3/4 on the gauge and 550 or over the power actually drops right away, struggling to maintain 110kph.
However, when the engine temp is low no probs for 110!
Expensive and long learning kerb bit on the right track now I think Peter. I look forward to the tune up and united in Perth has a good wrap.
Another lil note to show how far the fuel was out, I only got 550k''s out of a 110l tank!!!

I'll let ya's all know how the tune up goes and I'll also get them to probe the in and out of that PWR WTA intercooler to check its effectiveness.

Thanks all

Peter Aawen
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 16th, 2014, 2:16 am

:thumb: Sounds like a good way to go to me! ;)




But then, maybe I'm a bit biased?! :sillywink: :p
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

94 TURBO HILUX
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by 94 TURBO HILUX » January 19th, 2014, 8:38 pm

I chased overheating problems similar to what your chasing. I had a new alloy rad, aftermarket 5L fan(8 fins, instead of 7), fan clutch, 3 different thermos(now with a 88* high flow), top mount intercooler, different coolant types, pulled the a/c out. It kept getting hot on the highway, particularly up long slight climbs, or steep ranges.

It ended up being over fueling. But for some reason so many people have heating problems in the 2.8 Hilux. Considering how similar the engine is to a 2LT. Which usually no one has a problem with

Peter may be onto something about the vortex under the car. The 106/65 luxes come out with that pathetic bash plate. Now if that has been removed, like 99% of people do, this could create a lot of air to draft up straight to the back of the radiator, causing the hot air that's come through the rad to be stuck in there. Causing a heat soaking vortex. :nosey:

I had a 65 with a 3l, m10 garret, water/ oil cooled turbo. Running 9psi. With a ally rad. I had a mechanical temp gauge on it and it never ever ever got over 80*. Flogging it like I was running from the cops, and it still would never get over 80, and it was always carrying a heap of weight, usually 500kgs in work gear. It had its bash plate still on.

I'm off to find a bash plate, thanks Peter

Hotlux
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Hotlux » January 28th, 2014, 10:44 am

Thanks the tip 94 lux, I'm actually off to the wreckers this morning while I'm in Perth. I'll see if they have a bashplate!,

An update for all tho, had it dyno turned.

Not a whole heap of joy there, they gave it some more boost (15psi!!!) and tuned it by air/fuel ratio but I'm still getting temps up to 600deg!! And of course when the engine temp follows!!

Power was only 100hp at the flywheel after the tune up, Wikipedia says that is what the output of a standard 5L is!! Has anyone got any figures for their 3L, 5L combos??

Thanks

Peter Aawen
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 28th, 2014, 11:27 am

After I'd been driving one of our TD42 Patrols around for a while with a soft blow turbo fitted and no overheating problems at all, I swapped the original Nissan bash plate under the gearbox/trans case for a heavier custom made alloy sheet. Instant low level but annoying overheating problems; at low speed, at high speed, on the Freeway, on the fire tracks, just in the bush barely above idle, it got hotter than I wanted it to and I couldn't keep the temps down!! I chased and chased, checked & replaced everything in the cooling system/fan/radiator area and still couldn't get it under control. Got the diesel tuner to check that it wasn't over-fuelling, & it wasn't, but it was still running hot!!

Then one of the old blokes I drive with fairly regularly mentioned that he'd had similar problems after fitting an aftermarket bash plate, and resolved them by re-fitting the OE bash plate - so I tried that too and guess what!! The after market/custom bash plate was the cause of my overheating!! I played with it a bit, mounted a remote camera under the vehicle & put tell-tale threads all over the place, put in remote temp sensors, and even got to the stage of running a smoke generator up front so I could see where the air flow was going via the camera as I was driving/reviewing the video. I decided that it looked like the flat & straight leading edge of the custom bash plate was the issue, cos the OE plate was not flat & straight, and it disturbed the air flow, creating a bit of a venturi effect that helped the air flow underneath the vehicle suck air out of the high pressure area under the bonnet and thereby let the cooling air flow in thru the rad, along the sides of the engine, then down and out underneath the car, cooling the gearbox, transcase, rear diff, and shocks, fuel tank etc as it went past! All it took to let the custom bash plate do the same was to shape its leading edge the same as the OE bash plate, and add a couple of little baffles that matched the bends/holes in the OE plate so that it restored the air flow to the same pattern as originally designed, and voila, no more overheating problems!!

So be a little careful when you go fitting non original bash plates - they can play havoc with the designed air flow, and that can upset your cooling system a lot more than you might think (as can doing things like losing the little rubber flaps that stop air flow escaping out between the inner guards and the chassis rails, or lifting the rear of the bonnet and destroying the carefully designed high pressure area at the top/back of the engine bay that helps force cooling air down and out underneath the vehicle in order to keep the gearbox & trans case etc cool as well!!)

Did the diesel tuner know you were having overheating issues and address those in the tune?? Or was he just looking for more power for you?? He should have been able to tune it so that your EGT's didn't get that high, and high EGT's will push up your coolant temps no matter what else you do! You sure the power resulting was 100hp at the Flywheel, not at the rear wheels?? If the std 5l is putting out 100hp at the flywheel and yours is putting that out at the rear wheels, you've got significantly more power, there can be as much as a 50% loss thru the drivetrain!! But I can't help you with any figures there, hopefully someone else who's had their 5l diesel tuned may be able to help. Still, Wikipedia is not the greatest source of reliable info - anyone can put up whatever they like, and unless it gets amended by someone in the know, there it stays, misleading all and sundry until it gets corrected/changed by another reader/poster!! So don't be too upset by anything Wikipedia reports! ;)
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

Bevan'n'Katie
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Bevan'n'Katie » January 28th, 2014, 11:39 am

also it is a diesel, and not a commonrail, they are still old oil burner, never going to go like the clappers

Hotlux
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Hotlux » January 29th, 2014, 6:02 pm

Thanks guys.

Just drove back from Perth today in sub 25 heat after my big tune up....

Ran EGT's well over 550 into and above 600. Had to stop short of cooking it and tickled the engine temp red line a couple of times. Not overly impressed with the tune and they weren't very helpful in even attempting to answering my questions (what's another $330)...

I am not chasing enough power to do 4th gear skids, but I would think that a 3.0L intercooled turbo engine should be capable of maintaining 100-110kph without cooking its guts out. The 2LT could before the compression ran away!!! (not having a crack at anyone on here helping me, just venting frustration)

Have some good info now on getting the cooling system at it's peak tho. I managed to find a bash plate (off IFS 4 runner) but have found some photos of the original and should be able to make it fit similar. Also, off to Bunning's to get some door gap foam to ensure the back lip of that bonnet is sealed up... Also, got the temp probe to suit my 3-way autron gauge to keep a real accurate eye on the coolant temp.

Also, not sure if I mentioned it before, but removing the triple bypass in the radiator was also a no good. It runs slightly warmer with it out... So, the bypass is definitely are a good thing.
Should keep me going next break...

I have attached the dyno print out if anyone can make better sense of it than me. I was told the blue line is a calculated flywheel hp which means I have the same power as a naturally aspirated 5L???

Thanks guys and I'll continue with the updates...

Dave
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mydmax
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by mydmax » January 29th, 2014, 8:53 pm

Hotlux
Previously you said it doesn't overheat in days below 30degrees and just above you say it is getting hot on a sub 20 degree day.

Do you know if the thermostat has a opening as large as original or larger so it can actually flow more through to get it cooled?

Have you tried different timing/injection settings? What you have may effectively be retarded slightly if it is now up to a 5L spec where it should be more according to what info you have presented.

Is the water pump pulley larger than it was originally or is it the same size? If the pulley to belt drive ratio is less then the pump is working slower and not shifting water through to be presented to the radiator quick enough.

I think someone mentioned the sucking in of the bottom radiator hose which would occur more on a triple unit than a OE radiator cos of the flow being less. I know that was removed.

A temp gauge at the bottom of the radiator will show if it is to hot a water at the bottom which is entering the wpump or if it is cool enough and the flow restriction is at the pump action or the thermostat pass rate.

Timing will heat the whole system.
A thermostat not passing enough just holds water back and although the engine is getting too hot, the bottom of the radiator is cool enough to do the job but can't get there.
Again the water pump action or lack of it will heat the engine but the rad bottom will be again cool enough to be effective.

The other points mentioned are also important ie Airflow through rad etc.

At the moment you just know it is getting hot on a gauge but you don't know what and where is hot or cool.
More investigation and testing needed to pinpoint it.

Cheers
mydmax

dhc4ever
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by dhc4ever » January 30th, 2014, 6:17 am

Hotlux wrote:Thanks guys.

Just drove back from Perth today in sub 25 heat after my big tune up....
Ran EGT's well over 550 into and above 600. Had to stop short of cooking it and tickled the engine temp red line a couple of times.
Theres the problem, its still over fueling imo.
Did they check the temps on a baseline run?
Did they check timing?
What where the air/fuel ratios before and after the "tune".

Hotlux
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Hotlux » January 30th, 2014, 7:26 am

That's exactly the info I requested before the tune up....

All the info they gave me was 'it's all good, yep air/fuels all good, yep, we just set it up right'......

Peter Aawen
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by Peter Aawen » January 30th, 2014, 11:12 am

Yeah, I'm still with dhc on this..... doesn't sound like they actually did too much for you!? Sad, but you do need to be a little careful what you ask for when you take your vehicle in, and some places aren't as good as others for whatever reason! :(

Maybe you could wind the fuel back yourself, no more than about 1/8th of a turn (at least not in one hit) and see if that stops/drops the high EGT's - I don't think you are ever going to resolve the cooling issues while you have EGT's that are getting too much over 550 Deg C for more than a moment or two....

Winding the fuel back might lose you a tad more power tho, but at this stage, what's the better option - a cooked motor or driving with a little less power?? Once you've got the over-heating issues sorted, then you can start looking at the power or lack there-off isssues! ;)

Good Luck!
An Ex-Service person is someone who thought enough about their country & how great it is, how lucky we are to live here, to write a blank cheque made out to 'The People and Commonwealth of Australia' for the value of 'Up to & including my Life!'

94 TURBO HILUX
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Re: Overheating Hilux - what can it be?

Unread post by 94 TURBO HILUX » February 2nd, 2014, 8:38 pm

Peters right there hotlux. Forget the power gains at the moment. Turn your pump back 1/8 or 1/4 at a time, and keep doing so till you get the egt's under 550.. Usually people start at a standard fuel setting and wind up till they reach their egt limit. You going back with the pump but your result will still be the same. Mines up 1/2 a turn from standard. And it's plenty enough power. But doesn't like to sit on 110/hr. But I got 4:5 gears in it instead of 4:3.

I started a argument on facebooks Aus Hilux owners page about the bash plate idea. I'd say 80% thought I was mad. 10% thought I had a fair argument and 10% agreed with me. I'm getting a factory plate for it after I get back from Fraser this weekend, so we will see if this helps or not. I reckon it'll help, the factory ones has flutes in it also, Toyota put it them there for a reason(the flutes).

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