auto lockers in the snow?

[ergjan]

Just wondering if anyone has had auto lockers in the snow?
How do they perform the front?

Just wondering how turning would be since there would be very limited traction.

I am looking at the 4wdsystems lokka.

i haven't done snow with mine, but mud is ok....

I have a Powertrax locker in the front of my 60 series, and it seemed to go ok when driving through snow a few weeks back. This was deep fresh snow too.

Compared to when i took my last 4by up to the snow, this time i rekon the locker helped keep my vehicle straight on the slippery stuff. Wish i had one in the back too but...

Cheers@! ;D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I run a Patrol with Detroit lockers both ends, spent 10 years in the Snowy Mountains and never had any issues driving in snow or on icy roads - the trick is the gentle and smooth pressure on the load pedal, steering etc. One of the guys I drive with frequently liked my patrol and its ability in snow and mud so much that he wanted auto lockers too, he went the lokka way because of the dollars, and after about 2 months, if he'd been any closer to the supplier, he would've repeatedly thrown it through their window! He Ripped them out and ditched them, (literally)he since has put a Detroit in the front and couldn't be more pleased, except when he gets the Detroit in the Back!! (Soon!) ;D ;D ;D ;D

[ergjan]

what was wrong with the lokka brand??

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The people who make Detroits also make a device called an EZE-Locker, verrry similar to the lokka, and that type of lokka is very inferior in operation to the Detroit locker. They are however, (both the Detroit EZE version and the lokka) made to a budget and to provide ease of fitting. Any one handy with a spanner should be able to fit one in a couple of hours.

Some people have also had issues with the supplier, but thats between them and the supplier. I don't know of anyone who's had issues with the supplier of Detroits, Tractech in the USA, and Opposite Lock is the local 4WD distributor.

In terms of operation/fitting, I don't want to get into long winded arguements about it, and unless you've done a few k's with both, you probably won't consider/understand the shortfalls of the lokka style.

The lokka works on the basis of forcing the side gears to engage under acceleration/deceleration; - the harder you press the loud pedal, the harder they force the side gears to engage, or the equivalent under engine braking! This can produce lots of issues and quirks in the operation or disengagement that the latest Detroit Series IV Softlocker avoids through its different style of operation.

The Softlocker costs from about $1200 up, depending on the vehicle/diff, while the lokka is half the price! The Softlocker requires the removal of the diff centre and crown wheel to fit, and the subsequent re-fitting and diff back-lash set-up (and associated costs), while the lokka is the simple replacement of some bits within the diff centre that can often be done without removing the diff. I believe, and so do most who have experienced both, that the function of the softlocker and its advantages far outweighs the extra cost and complexity of fitting!

It's your decision to make though!! ;D ;D ;D Try them both, but give yourself the opportunity to learn the different approach needed to get the best from them!!
Have Fun! ;D ;D ;D

[boof]

1200 for an auto locker for that price ide get an air locker only got an auto cause it was cheap ;D

[ergjan]

yeah i was thinking that aswell.

For that price u most well buy an arb locker.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Yeah, go ahead and buy the air lockers, but you'll never experience the absolute traction and control provided by a Detroit Softlocker, and all detroit equipped drivers will look back at you with a quietly satisfied grin from ear to ear ;D ;D ;D

I have mixed feelings about lockers in the snow. In the High Country with snow, or mud for that matter, lockers can sometimes have you travelling sideways rather forwards. Result, the drop off gets uncomfortably close :-X

I am no expert on this stuff, just a mug punter, but there downsides of having lockers and I like to have the choice if they are engaged, or not...I therefore will be fitting air-lockers, cross axles locking on demand with no surprises and or prentences of being a super skilled, veteran 4WD driver, because I cetainly not one of those...

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Many years in the high country and Snowies, both as an employee and as an owner/operator of 4WD tours, and the detroit locker goes into my vehicles before I accept delivery. I haven't run into the problems you mention (yet!) But I HAVE seen it often, and from my experience, the downsides you talk about are most often experienced by those vehicles with selectable lockers fitted.

I don't often call myself expert, but like to point out that the bag of luck hasn't yet run out, and I'm steadily filling the bag with experience. The real benefit of Detroit lockers is that you can do most things so much slower than otherwise. You can pick the best line to get you thru, without having to worry about keeping to the line giving you traction under all 4 wheels, or all 4 wheels on the ground. If you can gently follow the best line through the slush, ice, muc, water etc. etc. the locker will pull or push you thru!

I prefer the locker fitted to the rear axle, cause that way I get the advantage ALL the time, not just in 4WD, and when people who haven't driven with them talk about all the downsides, I just smile that smile I mentioned earlier ;D ;D ;D

See if you can find someone with a detroit fitted, (preferably to the rear) and ask if they'll let you take it for a drive! You might just be surprised at the lack of real downsides! ;D

[3rnzir]

Do `they` have softlockers for the GQ?Front and rear SLs available?Do you have a website,e-mail contact re SLs

[ergjan]

Do `they` have softlockers for the GQ?Front and rear SLs available?Do you have a website,e-mail contact re SLs


http://www.4wdsystems.com.au/

The ones here are about $500

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

See your nearest Opposite Lock outlet for all retail sales of Detroit Lockers, Tru-track, ezi-lockers, and even an electrically operated locker. There are stores all over the country. The people there know and use the products they sell, and have nation-wide warranties to back them!

Website: www.oppositelock.com.au

ps Just came back from 2 weeks in the Snowy mountains, admittedly not a heap of snow, but certainly enough slush to make it very interesting!! Enjoyed the heck out of it, too!!

You all have fun now! ;D

[Huge Black Lux]

I would never go for an auto locking diff after the complaints I heard and have seen :o . I'll stick to locking my diff when I want it locked in. ARB air lockers are the go for sure....... ;)

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Another person who's "heard" about all these problems!!

Did you actually see them??

Or experience any of them??

What about all the problems that have been SEEN and EXPERIENCED with air lockers???

Won't unlock under load; won't lock unless the wheels are staight ahead; won't unlock unless the wheels are straight ahead; pull off an air line and you're stuffed; blow the fuse to the compressor and you're stuffed; wear thru the wiring to the switches etc and can't do anything; can't turn at all in mud; can't use them on the steepest bits of climbs in the high country, cause the steepest bit is the switchback turn 1/2 way up the hill; can't drive over 40kph with them on; yada yada yada........!!

Why is it that the world's military, who want a vehicle that is easy to drive and is as unstoppable as it can be, all use those auto UN-lockers, and not the air lockers? Why is it that the only option for heavy commercial vehicles is actually an auto UN-locker? Should I go on??

If you want to use an air locker on your own vehicle, go right ahead, but at least give those who may still be making up their minds the FACTS not the "heards*@!$"

[Mick.]

See your nearest Opposite Lock outlet for all retail sales of Detroit Lockers, Tru-track, ezi-lockers, and even an electrically operated locker. There are stores all over the country. The people there know and use the products they sell, and have nation-wide warranties to back them!

Website: www.oppositelock.com.au

ps Just came back from 2 weeks in the Snowy mountains, admittedly not a heap of snow, but certainly enough slush to make it very interesting!! Enjoyed the heck out of it, too!!

You all have fun now! ;D
I'm planing on getting some lockers for my patrol soon and just curious on what the difference is between detroit locker, tru-track and the ezy- lockers are?

Cheers Mick.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The latest version of the Detroit Locker is the Series IV 'Softlocker', which is the same as the Series IV, with the addition of spring loaded damping arrangements similar to an LSD on each side of the locker that 'damps' the disengagement action. The Series IV is a much smoother disengaging device than anything previously, and with the addition of the damping, it is usually un-noticeable. (Unless you try hard and do things competent drivers really shouldn't!!) It WILL disengage WHENEVER one wheel is ground driven faster than the engine driven wheel. All that it needs is for the ground driven wheel to move about 2 inches at the tread end, so even changing lanes will allow disengagement.

The Tru-Track is the 'Detroit' Geared Limited Slip Diff. It uses a gearset to provide a true, torque proportioning action. Any diff, limited slip or otherwise, will only ever drive the easiest wheel to turn, the one with the least traction! When that wheel spins, the normal Limited slip diff , given some friction from the spinning wheel, sends drive across to the wheel with traction. The Limited Slip Diff MUST have friction under the spinning wheel, (so if it's in the air, you need to use a little left foot brake), and the latest issue of 4WD Monthly outlines the way both the GQ and 80 Series do this in their normal LSD's.

At the absolute best, an LSD will transfer 40 percent of the drive. The Tru-Trac achieves the same thing with gears instead of Clutch packs, and will divide the drive equally between the two wheels. It MUST push drive across, (because of the gears) while a normal LSD fitted with clutching arangements MIGHT push UP TO 40 percent.

The EZE-Locker is the 'Detroit' version of the Lokka or Lock right. It is an auto UN-locker built to a budget, and is really quite similar to the Detroit early versions that have been superseded by about 40 years of research and design! They work, as does any Locker, air or otherwise, and are certainly better than any open diff, BUT, they have characteristics that the later design and technology in the Series IV Softlocker gets around.

The Series IV SL is available for the front of the GQ, and so is the EZE-Locker. The Tru-Tracker I don't believe is made to fit a GQ or GU Diff. The Series IV SL is not listed as an option for the rear of a GQ or GU, but it is still available as a special order. All are available through any Opposite Lock store, who is the retail supplier in Australia for 'Detroit', while the NO-Spin or the commercial version is available through Locked Drive Systems, the importer and commercial supplier.

Have fun, whichever way you go!! ;D ;D ;D

[Mick.]

The latest version of the Detroit Locker is the Series IV 'Softlocker', which is the same as the Series IV, with the addition of spring loaded damping arrangements similar to an LSD on each side of the locker that 'damps' the disengagement action. The Series IV is a much smoother disengaging device than anything previously, and with the addition of the damping, it is usually un-noticeable. (Unless you try hard and do things competent drivers really shouldn't!!)

The Tru-Track is the 'Detroit' Geared Limited Slip Diff. It uses a gearset to provide a true, torque proportioning action. Any diff, limited slip or otherwise, will only ever drive the easiest wheel to turn, the one with the least traction! When that wheel spins, the normal Limited slip diff , given some friction from the spinning wheel, sends drive across to the wheel with traction. The Limited Slip Diff MUST have friction under the spinning wheel, (so if it's in the air, you need to use a little left foot brake), and the latest issue of 4WD Monthly outlines the way both the GQ and 80 Series do this in their normal LSD's.

At the absolute best, an LSD will transfer 40 percent of the drive. The Tru-Trac achieves the same thing with gears instead of Clutch packs, and will divide the drive equally between the two wheels. It MUST push drive across, (because of the gears) while a normal LSD fitted with clutching arangements MIGHT push UP TO 40 percent.

The EZE-Locker is the 'Detroit' version of the Lokka or Lock right. It is an auto UN-locker built to a budget, and is really quite similar to the Detroit early versions that have been superseded by about 40 years of research and design! They work, as does any Locker, air or otherwise, and are certainly better than any open diff, BUT, they have characteristics that the later design and technology in the Series IV Softlocker gets around.

The Series IV SL is available for the front of the GQ, and so is the EZE-Locker. The Tru-Tracker I don't believe is made to fit a GQ or GU Diff. The Series IV SL is not listed as an option for the rear of a GQ or GU, but it is still available as a special order. All are available through any Opposite Lock store, who is the retail supplier in Australia for 'Detroit', while the NO-Spin or the commercial version is available through Locked Drive Systems, the importer and commercial supplier.

Have fun, whichever way you go!! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks mate. Decisions decisions. ;D

[alfnq]

The latest version of the Detroit Locker is the Series IV 'Softlocker', which is the same as the Series IV, with the addition of spring loaded damping arrangements similar to an LSD on each side of the locker that 'damps' the disengagement action. The Series IV is a much smoother disengaging device than anything previously, and with the addition of the damping, it is usually un-noticeable. (Unless you try hard and do things competent drivers really shouldn't!!)

The Tru-Track is the 'Detroit' Geared Limited Slip Diff. It uses a gearset to provide a true, torque proportioning action. Any diff, limited slip or otherwise, will only ever drive the easiest wheel to turn, the one with the least traction! When that wheel spins, the normal Limited slip diff , given some friction from the spinning wheel, sends drive across to the wheel with traction. The Limited Slip Diff MUST have friction under the spinning wheel, (so if it's in the air, you need to use a little left foot brake), and the latest issue of 4WD Monthly outlines the way both the GQ and 80 Series do this in their normal LSD's.

At the absolute best, an LSD will transfer 40 percent of the drive. The Tru-Trac achieves the same thing with gears instead of Clutch packs, and will divide the drive equally between the two wheels. It MUST push drive across, (because of the gears) while a normal LSD fitted with clutching arangements MIGHT push UP TO 40 percent.

The EZE-Locker is the 'Detroit' version of the Lokka or Lock right. It is an auto UN-locker built to a budget, and is really quite similar to the Detroit early versions that have been superseded by about 40 years of research and design! They work, as does any Locker, air or otherwise, and are certainly better than any open diff, BUT, they have characteristics that the later design and technology in the Series IV Softlocker gets around.

The Series IV SL is available for the front of the GQ, and so is the EZE-Locker. The Tru-Tracker I don't believe is made to fit a GQ or GU Diff. The Series IV SL is not listed as an option for the rear of a GQ or GU, but it is still available as a special order. All are available through any Opposite Lock store, who is the retail supplier in Australia for 'Detroit', while the NO-Spin or the commercial version is available through Locked Drive Systems, the importer and commercial supplier.

Have fun, whichever way you go!! ;D ;D ;D
Thanks mate. Decisions decisions. ;D



thanks that ahelp to me aswell ;)

[crankycruiser]

Another person who's "heard" about all these problems!!

Did you actually see them??

Or experience any of them??

What about all the problems that have been SEEN and EXPERIENCED with air lockers???

Won't unlock under load; won't lock unless the wheels are staight ahead; won't unlock unless the wheels are straight ahead; pull off an air line and you're stuffed; blow the fuse to the compressor and you're stuffed; wear thru the wiring to the switches etc and can't do anything; can't turn at all in mud; can't use them on the steepest bits of climbs in the high country, cause the steepest bit is the switchback turn 1/2 way up the hill; can't drive over 40kph with them on; yada yada yada........!!

Why is it that the world's military, who want a vehicle that is easy to drive and is as unstoppable as it can be, all use those auto UN-lockers, and not the air lockers? Why is it that the only option for heavy commercial vehicles is actually an auto UN-locker? Should I go on??

If you want to use an air locker on your own vehicle, go right ahead, but at least give those who may still be making up their minds the FACTS not the "heards*@!$"


Cant go over 40k with them on???? does that mean ur not suppossed to??? hope not casue ive done ova 110 ks with mine on

[BushTuckerNed]

Cant go over 40k with them on???? does that mean ur not suppossed to??? hope not casue ive done ova 110 ks with mine on

ready for that long sweeping bend at the end in the wet for sum drifting?? ;D ;D

[crankycruiser]

Cant go over 40k with them on???? does that mean ur not suppossed to??? hope not casue ive done ova 110 ks with mine on

ready for that long sweeping bend at the end in the wet for sum drifting?? ;D ;D


LOL be a good idea if the car wasnt fulltime 4wd :(

[BushTuckerNed]

Cant go over 40k with them on???? does that mean ur not suppossed to??? hope not casue ive done ova 110 ks with mine on

ready for that long sweeping bend at the end in the wet for sum drifting?? ;D ;D


LOL be a good idea if the car wasnt fulltime 4wd :(

oh whoops, my bad :-[

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Got informed today that ARB Airlockers Warranty is not valid if used with tyres over 31" diameter :o :o :o

And that the oils seals when worn leak oil into the activation line and sieze it up!!

Another couple of reasons not to bother! ;D

[Mick.]

Got informed today that ARB Airlockers Warranty is not valid if used with tyres over 31" diameter :o :o :o

And that the oils seals when worn leak oil into the activation line and sieze it up!!

Another couple of reasons not to bother! ;D
Gees thats a bit harsh. :o How many people that have air lockers have 31 or smaller on their 4wds. The first thing they do is put 33s or bigger. Sounds like just another get out of jail free card when there product stuffs up. >:(

[swifty]

Why is it that the world's military, who want a vehicle that is easy to drive and is as unstoppable as it can be, all use those auto UN-lockers, and not the air lockers? Why is it that the only option for heavy commercial vehicles is actually an auto UN-locker? Should I go on??

I


Why then does the Unimogs that the Aust military use, have air lockers?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Unimogs are a specialist vehicle and as such are used by specially trained drivers. When a general purpose vehicle is required to be driven by anyone and everyone, the locker of choice throughout the worlds military is Detroit Lockers. More Detroit Lockers are fitted to military vehicles throughout the world than any other type of locker.