holden red vs blue

[hj47/80series]

can anyone tell me what the difference between the holden red 202 and the blue 202 is??

are they the same style block will the distributer from the red fit the blue ??

reason for this is i have a marinised red 202 but its hard to find a decent one cheap here in sa
any help would be great !

cheers
mike

[toy yoda]

Mike
The blocks are the same , the difference is the blue head was improved

the distributors will fit in either block.....one of the best red motor improve mods is to fit the elecky distributor and coil from a blue motor

a red to blue engine swap is also simple ...engine mounts/ bell housing are same ...only real difference there is the monifolds are different

Yoda

[toy yoda]

food for thought Mike!!

a 253 or 308 ( trimatic pattern) will drop onto the same mountings and bellhousing bolts

[hj47/80series]

hmm an 8 would be good but i have all the gear from my current boat motor which i need o put back in!!!

i guess the blue motor will have to be just a thought as i cant see the manifolds fiting damn!!

[toy yoda]

theres plenty you can do to a red or blue 6 to give it some more go go's and if your gunna do a rebuild then its not that much harder or expensive either!!

[et4wd]

Ahh these are the days,
Whack the head off the red on a blue and you will have no dramas!

Go the hot-rod on the engine! it is cheap if it is a early red head as heaps of SB chev gear fits them!

Steve.

[toy yoda]

i remember the old days too Steve.... 186 heads on the 202!!

[Tree cutter]

The red head will bolt onto the blue block but the water gallery's are in a different spot. People used to put blue heads on red motors. All you had to do was drill three extra holes in the top of the block for the water gallery's and use a blue head gasket so i suppose you could put a red head on a blue motor.

[hj47/80series]

thanks guys i have solved the problem
i picked up a nice fresh 186 which has the same power output as the 202
for a nice price of 200 bucks
once again thanks

[diehard]

aaah the good ole days of red/blue...i suddenly miss my commy :(

i had a good run out of a black head...bigger valves and better porting, shave 40thou for around 10:1

[toy yoda]

Mike ..
Good stuff....the 186 is a better motor than any of the 202's ( red black or Blue)

as for a good black head...pitty the rest of the black motor was a let down!!

[hj47/80series]

i find it amazing that its only slightly smaller but it still has the same power i wonder if ill use less fuel!!

[Micks-Troopy]

good buy on a 186, they ran cooler then the 202. Ive got a Torana with a 253 out in my shed up on stands, its a red block with a blue block dizzy. Rev's harder then the standard red dizzy as there is no points to worry about.

[toy yoda]

the 6 cyl blue dizzy will fit in a red 186 too!!!!
and yeh they rev better than points ,changed properly you change coil and run high energy!

[et4wd]

Will have the same HP but will sacrafice a bit of torque tho!
You will have to use a tad more pedal to get the boat out the hole but once it's cruisin it will use less juice, and you wont have to worry about No 5 piston falling in half in the motor either!
If ya want roller tipped rockers for the 186 get them for a SB chev as they bolt straight on! and while ya at it chuck a 179 head on it to help it out a bit.

Ahhhh the days of my mate 'Drugs' little XU1 LJ i can still hear that thing rev to 7500 in gear changes.......................memories.

Steve.

[BMKal]

i remember the old days too Steve.... 186 heads on the 202!!

Yep - nearly as good as a 149 head with triple SU's on a 179 - (and an N70Z to crank the bloody thing over). :crazy:

Have to agree that the earlier red motors (149, 179, 186) were all much better than any of the 202's any day. Some of the 202's used to go like the clappers, but what a fragile piece of crap they were.

Now if you want a bullet-proof work horse - go the 253 or the Chev 307 / 327. Compared with any of these, the 308 was crap.

But one great thing about any of these engines compared to most of today's - at least you didn't need to be a rocket scientist to work on them, or to squeeze a little extra performance out of them. :waycool: :waycool:

[sudso]

Ah the old red vs blue/202 vs the rest :D
Half the young blokes on here wouldnt know what a red or blue motor was lol.
The only "real good" red 6 motor blocks for serious hp and rpm were the JP blocks. Had thicker casting and webbing etc and generally only found in the XU-1's.
Dont understand all the bagging of the ol 202 though.
Weren't these the motors that got Brocky the chequered flag in the XU-1?
I've had good success with a souped up 202. I call it the Mutt cos its a real mixture of red and blue motors.
Started with a crack tested std bore 202 (rear main rope seal) red motor block,
Bored 40 thou
ACL dished slipper pistons
Std Rings ACL
202 Blue motor conrods (balanced)
ARP Conrod bolts
202 Blue motor crank (re balanced)
Crow Hyd cam (bigger lift but slightly shorter duration than XU-1 cam)
Crane anti pump up lifters
Alloy timing gear
186 Head (Matchported, cc'd, bigarse LPG valves - because I wanted to LPG it (valve reliefs had to be cut on block deck) double valve springs, 186S rocker arms (what are they u ask lol) Compression 10.5:1
Electronic Commo dizzy regraphed (also had to remove resistor wire of points ignition system and replace with fat red wire),
Genie Tri Y extractors & 2" zorst with super turbo muffler,
Basic 350 Holley (jetted for max power at dyno tune)

There ya go, not super hot by any means but it got the old HK Prem up and going. 110kw @ 5500 at the wheels. Bit of an improvement over the std 202 dont ya reckon?
Unfortunately when the octane rating of petrol began to drop and leaded was no more, the motor didnt perform as well cos it was basically set up for high compression/slower burning fuel. A bloke I used to work for flew an ultralight and had access to avgas so I talked him into getting me a couple of jerrys of it :D (used to be able to drive in off the street and buy it at Parafield for about 85c/p/lt back then!) I mixed it about 50/50 with the newly introduced unleaded and trialled some dizzy settings. We found we could run it at 12 deg advanced without any pinging and the torque was boosted heaps from lower revs right up to 6000. Snapped an axle and disintegrated 3 diff centres.
They were the days :waycool:

[cac]

sounds like you were running a banjo diff there sudso....they certainly weren't known for their ability to handle a decent power output....

110kW atw a decent power output too...would equate to around 150-160kW at the flywheel i think....not bad for 3.3ish litres

[toy yoda]

man this stroll down memory lane......my poor old torana used to hide like a dog at the vet.....cause i used to change things every other day

from tired 202..to a reco, then 186 head....extractors back to 186 x2 headers.. twin barrell carb twin carb ..tripple su's .( never got much agreement out of lpg with su's though!!) regraphed bwm dizzy running twin points....

thats the bolt on stuff id hate to list the internal changes....but like sudso it all got changed....

if it could be ground or found it was used!!!

satisfying to put it in 3rd and dump clutch and lay a black stripe...( not that we condone that behaivour) before the yota 5sp went in the aussie 4 didnt last

And then it went 308 for a while the 6 banger was more fun....quicker off the line and for the top end difference i got i couldnt use...back to the su'd 6

and a disc rear 9 inch conversion ( with shortened axles dut and rewelded with the arc on the driveway as way the housing.....And no crap the diff survived ..for the life of me i dont know how...pressure bias was up the shitter disc rear was too agressive easy to do a 180 though so a pair of vise grips were used to clamp the brake line ..( stayed on there for 12 months!!!)

[toy yoda]

i remember hearing stories of my old mans days

he had a brand new HR with the 186 X2 motor ..with a heap of bits obviously
his mates had XYgtho Ph3 and other gt's ect
had a drag from local drive in one night.......dad killed them of the line and the rest of the way too....

Xy driver jumped up and down at being done in by a piddly little 6....said " shit mate ya gunna blow that piece of crap up...you didnt even change gears" apparently he saw red when he found out it was a powerglide

[sudso]

sounds like you were running a banjo diff there sudso....they certainly weren't known for their ability to handle a decent power output....

110kW atw a decent power output too...would equate to around 150-160kW at the flywheel i think....not bad for 3.3ish litresYeah, just the std 6 cyl banjo's. Could always pick up another for 20 bucks or an axle for 10 too.
Yeah the power was good for a 202, until leaded was phased out and low octane ULP was all that was around.

The only thing that it would run ok on now is LPG, doesnt mind the high compression. Still got the Prem and motor. Hasn't been on the road for about 10 years though.

satisfying to put it in 3rd and dump clutch and lay a black stripe...( not that we condone that behaivour) before the yota 5sp went in the aussie 4 didnt lastI could only manage a good chirp into third. Might have been a different story in a little torry but. Not that we condone that :D

[et4wd]

Remember the last ride i had in the XU1,
It was ridgy didge! right down to the colour of the caps on the carbies and the colour of the fuel lines...............and then of course the fuel tank, which finished just under the boot line! It had a 6cyl tank in it with a 4cyl tank turned upside down and welded on top!...........thats right a REAL Bathurst LJ GTR XU1!!!!!!
It was great! ran 265's on the back and wouldnt scrub with 5 people in it!
We were bringing it home from his dad's house and it was breaking down at 5500 so we took it to my dad after changing everything to get him to check it out for us, He asked if he could take it for a spin, Drugs gave him the keys and away he went.
After giving it a hiding up the road for about 12 k's he came back and told us the dizzy was buggered, I have NEVER seen my dad smile so much!!!! his face looked like a split watermelon must have been his dream to drive one one day and there it was, wont ever forget the look on his face!!!!
So we ripped it out brought it to a little shop down here in Elizabeth and a old bloke there crapped himself when he saw it and brought out all of these Holden marked boxes, That's Right, Original Holden rebuild kit for a XU1!!!!! he didnt charge Drugs for the parts but charged him $80 for labour and asked if he could bring the car back so he could have a sit in it, as he had kept the bits for one day when someone came in with a original dizzy!
We wacked it back in, tuned it Sterling Moss style ( best way to do a hot red motor i reckon!) and then took it for a flex, straight back to 7500rpm in gear changes!!!............I have NEVER heard a engine rev so quitely at that amount of rpm!!! still blows me away thinking about it.....what a wicked car that thing was!...............Memories,

Steve.

[toy yoda]

ahhh the good ole days!!:thumb: