Aussie diesel and Bass Strait oil

[sudso]

According to Nulon, who make all the oil and fuel additives, most of Australia's diesel fuel is refined from Bass Strait oil.
If its coming from our own back yard why the !!!! are they charging us so much?
They wont get more money out of me, I still spend the same amount on fuel just travel less.

[Marc 1]

Just checked the Nulon website - it didn't mention that ^.

It's been covered before at least three times.

Ask yourself these questions:

1. Where are all the petrol companies heaquartered? (Hint answer is overseas)

2. Why are businesses in business? (to make a profit for the fat cat executives and shareholders)

3. Is oil in demand worldwide? (Yes)

4. Can oil be easily transported to whomever will pay the highest price? (damn right thats why we have bulk tankers).

So, final question

5. Why would a multinational company with a responsibilityto maximise profit to their shareholders sell our oil to us at a lower price than they can get for it overseas?

If your answer was anything else apart from " They should maximise the profits of their shareholders by selling it at an internationally competitive price" then you've failed Rusty's Macro Economics 101.

As to whether this is morally right - thats a different arguement.

[diehard]

:cool:

:rolleyes:

:cool:

:rolleyes:

:cool:

:thumb:

thats a bloody good answer marc....

makes sense to me anyway.

[Courierman]

Buy Oil Company Shares And You Too Can Join In The Profits.

[Marc 1]

Buy Oil Company Shares And You Too Can Join In The Profits.

Also applies to getting revenge on banks etc. CBA paid $1.49 in dividends per share last year.

[defmec]

unless this world distroys capitlism get use to it :crazy:

[Goldielux]

Australian oil companies agreed to sell based on international prices, otherwise will would have no fuel at all.
refer to Marc1's post

[sudso]

Just checked the Nulon website - it didn't mention that ^.
Its in their tech notes. You didnt look far enough.

If your answer was anything else apart from " They should maximise the profits of their shareholders by selling it at an internationally competitive price" then you've failed Rusty's Macro Economics 101.
Producers of oil in some other countires sell their fuels at much lower prices in their own country than they do here.

Thanks for the answers too Marc1:thumb: :)

[fishwenican]

the truth is there with the parity pricing, however as long as we have the gutless, spineless, USELESS, dribble crap from mouth govt allowing this to happen we will be ripped off on fuel prices .
Facts are the pricing could be considerably lower for us .

[Marc 1]

the truth is there with the parity pricing, however as long as we have the gutless, spineless, USELESS, dribble crap from mouth govt allowing this to happen we will be ripped off on fuel prices .
Facts are the pricing could be considerably lower for us .

So fish, what should the govt do?

[tas]

So fish, what should the govt do?

Lower the f#(king taxes/excises on it would be a fantastic start! Why is it that business using diesel would be entitled to a rebate of at least 18.51 cents per litre (upto 38.143 for agricultural use) when your average punter gets nothing.

Rates for the energy grants credits scheme (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/Content/35004.htm)

[Crusa]

A lot of folks can't understand how we came
To have an oil shortage here in our country.
~~~
Well, there's a very simple answer.
~~~
Nobody bothered to check the oil.
~~~
We just didn't know we were getting low.
~~~
The reason for that is purely geographical .
~~~
Our OIL is located in
~~~
Bass Strait
~~~
East Queensland Shale Fields
~~~
Canning Basin
~~~
Perth Basin
and
North-West Continental Shelf
~~~


Our
DIPSTICKS
Are located in
Canberra!!!

Any Questions ???
NO? I didn't Think So.

[steveandviv]

Lower the f#(king taxes/excises on it would be a fantastic start! Why is it that business using diesel would be entitled to a rebate of at least 18.51 cents per litre (upto 38.143 for agricultural use) when your average punter gets nothing.

Rates for the energy grants credits scheme (http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/content.asp?doc=/Content/35004.htm)

Didn't you read the news breif. Were saving all our pocket money for the education revolution - arh - well as long as we don't have to pay for all of it and the state government kicks ina few Million and, um, well you know:D

But. if they lower the excise then they will just add a tax some where else and that's the bottom line - or maybe they should mean test fuel prices - Oh here we go again - Joke by the way...

[fishwenican]

why is there this mentality that lowering fuel excise will require other taxes increased ????????
we are the 2nd highest taxed nation in the world ??? yes / no.
i am sure that there would not be much actual revenue loss to the budget if they did lower excise as taxes are increasing in most other areas anyhow.
i am sure they wouldnt lower excise anyway,

@ Marc1
if I knew what they should do I would probably run in politics my self.
I do not have a simple answer.
but maybe the govt should stop allowing petroleum companies dictate terms on prices, at the end of the day the govt would have the final word on what they can increase prices to. As is the case with utility prices. doesnt there have to be a justification by the company to increase.????????
i am sure its not as simple as ABC , im not a finance person or in the govt so i am sure there is some work to be done BUT
if you think that what Mr PM Krudd says is gospel and then nothing gets done because we all think he is telling us the truth and we let the issue go then you are naive.
I am sure his spin doctors fill him full of crap
I am sure the govt could do plenty but find it easier to say they cant and sit on their hands.
they dont pay the fuel bills so they dont give a shit.

@ Stomper
ummm Ditto

[boof]

why is there this mentality that lowering fuel excise will require other taxes increased ????????
we are the 2nd highest taxed nation in the world ??? yes / no.
i am sure that there would not be much actual revenue loss to the budget if they did lower excise as taxes are increasing in most other areas anyhow.
i am sure they wouldnt lower excise anyway,

@ Marc1
if I knew what they should do I would probably run in politics my self.
I do not have a simple answer.
but maybe the govt should stop allowing petroleum companies dictate terms on prices, at the end of the day the govt would have the final word on what they can increase prices to. As is the case with utility prices. doesnt there have to be a justification by the company to increase.????????
i am sure its not as simple as ABC , im not a finance person or in the govt so i am sure there is some work to be done BUT
if you think that what Mr PM Krudd says is gospel and then nothing gets done because we all think he is telling us the truth and we let the issue go then you are naive.
I am sure his spin doctors fill him full of crap
I am sure the govt could do plenty but find it easier to say they cant and sit on their hands.
they dont pay the fuel bills so they dont give a shit.

@ Stomper
ummm Ditto


If you remove one tax anotther will take its place like it o not it will happen. It will also happen regardless of who is in power. I also love the way people blame Rudd continously.

Did fuel go up to the current prices in the last 6 months, NO it has been on a upward spiral for some time.

Did Rudd put the excise and GST on it. NO it was capped when the GST came in.

Did the previous Govt that enjoyed 11 years of boom bother to reinvest any money into infrastructure OR alternative fuels. NO

Its simple worldwide people are screaming about the price of oil and fuel. Yes some countries have reduced prices and it is, to most, at their detriment. The answer is alternative fuel sources problem is that is neither a quick or easy solution. Hopefully this government will look to put something in place that will be better than the usual quick fix that lasts for the term of power. Will people see that for what it is and vote accordingly or scream because the just want a handout and quick fix. Time will tell I guess.

[Patrolos]

I was talking to an independant service station owner and he says it's the Speculators that are keeping the prices up.
He also said that they are also part of the Russian Mafia

[Marc 1]

why is there this mentality that lowering fuel excise will require other taxes increased ????????
we are the 2nd highest taxed nation in the world ??? yes / no.
i am sure that there would not be much actual revenue loss to the budget if they did lower excise as taxes are increasing in most other areas anyhow.
i am sure they wouldnt lower excise anyway,

@ Marc1
if I knew what they should do I would probably run in politics my self.
I do not have a simple answer.
but maybe the govt should stop allowing petroleum companies dictate terms on prices, at the end of the day the govt would have the final word on what they can increase prices to. As is the case with utility prices. doesnt there have to be a justification by the company to increase.????????
i am sure its not as simple as ABC , im not a finance person or in the govt so i am sure there is some work to be done BUT
if you think that what Mr PM Krudd says is gospel and then nothing gets done because we all think he is telling us the truth and we let the issue go then you are naive.
I am sure his spin doctors fill him full of crap
I am sure the govt could do plenty but find it easier to say they cant and sit on their hands.
they dont pay the fuel bills so they dont give a shit.

@ Stomper
ummm Ditto

At the moment you could reduce the amount of tax, because of the strength of our economy and the incredible amounts of tax revenue the government is getting from the current mining bonanza will allow this. We are in a huge surplus position so yeah, the govt could probably afford to cut 10 cents per litre.

BUT what happens when the US goes into a deep recession, dragging China down with it, the Chinese stop buying as much bauxite, iron ore, copper ore etc, and our economy slows. What will happen if unemployment bounces back toward 8% and suddenly the government is facing paying the dole to hundreds of thousands of more people, whilst at the same time getting much less company tax revenue from the big miners and businesses everywhere? Does the government suddenly turn around to the people of Australia as the economic conditions and economy is going down the toilet and say " Sorry, we are going to add 10 cents per litre back onto the price of petrol, because we no longer have a surplus". Or does the government turn around and borrow money internationally (govt debt) to keep the fuel at the lower price? This is a fairly basic example but it does give you an indication of the reasoning behind this.

Of course you are right in one regard, if the govt did a total revamp of the tax system we could make fuel tax free (or even make it so no one pays income tax), but the money has to come from somewhere so we'll be stiffed somewhere else or face a reduction in government services somewhere else.

The other reason why the govt won't do this is that with the price of fuel rising, people are buying less (witness Sudso's post a few weeks back - he spends the same as he always does, he just drives less). This is helping the govt in its aims of reducing the carbon emission footprint of our society. Any making petrol cheaper will do the opposite - and do we really want to hear more of Bob Brown's (Greens) bleatings on that?

In short mate its a simple and complex problem. Sure the govt could take the popular short term option and cut the excise, but without changes elsewhere because of the far reaching effects, it's irresponsible to do so.

[Goldielux]

I also love the way people blame Rudd continously.

Did Rudd put the excise and GST on it. NO it was capped when the GST came in.



Who is blaming Rudd?

Seems to me most blame the government regardless of who is in power.

Labor ratified the exise capping and now have the power to change it.

Fuel is still cheap, it's depends on how much you earn:crazy:

[Marc 1]

[quote=boof;753798] I also love the way people blame Rudd continously. [quote]

Well Boof even you'd have to admit he lined himself up for a good chicken kicking when he was taunting Howard before the last election about Howard 'doing nothing' whilst he was going to take action (petrol commissioner WA style pricing scheme etc). Unfortunately for Rudd the oil price goes mad, meanwhile Rudd, despite making no promises on fuel, suddenly becomes a target from all and sundry, blaming him for something beyond his control.

That's what happens when you open your trap whilst in opposition (always easy to kick the incumbent govt from the opposition benches). OK, he never promised to keep fuel prices low, but that was the perception he wanted to and did create in the minds of the public, things go bad and voila - chicken kicking time.

Incidentally, Brendan Nelson is falling exactly into this trap too with his 5c reduction. Word of advice to potential pollies, if it is something that is beyond your ability control such as fuel prices, it would be smarter to keep your trap shut lest it makes a fool of you.

[sudso]

The other reason why the govt won't do this is that with the price of fuel rising, people are buying less (witness Sudso's post a few weeks back - he spends the same as he always does, he just drives less). This is helping the govt in its aims of reducing the carbon emission footprint of our society. Any making petrol cheaper will do the opposite - and do we really want to hear more of Bob Brown's (Greens) bleatings on that?
.I live in a rural area where travel by car/4wd etc is essential. I would like to see Bob Brown come and tow me and my gear around to jobs behind a pushbike or load it on a non existent bus service every other day.
There's been plenty of good viable, reliable and CHEAP alternative sources of energy for motor vehicles around for years which them and their promoters have been quashed by the oil companies and government. Cant tell me its not about greed and profiteering at the expense of the little guys. Where is all this proof that oil is going to run out soon anyway? Do we just take the words of experts as gospel who are probably on oil company or government payrolls in some way anyway.

[03deo]

apparently iran just discovered a billion barrel oil field.....? correct me if im wrong on that one. bit of a coincidence tho bush might be a little friendlier to them now they have some leverage in all that nuclear bizzo going on.
talking of nuclear...very early on in the piece i think ford looked into making a nuclear car....anyone willing to go down that path now you reckon?

also the price of diesel is going great guns at the moment because china is hording heaps for the olympics. also Marc 1 i dont think china will ever really be dragged down by the US, their economy is going nuts at the moment while the US is going from worse to worse, and iv read lots that in at the least 10 years chinas economy is going to overtake the US.
anyways my 2cents worth

[Marc 1]

Oil has dropped in price by $15 a barrel in the last five days. This means according to analysts that the price should drop by about 10 cents per litre. BUT whatever happened to the $1US rise in the price per barrel = 1c per litre. Shouldn't the fuel also drop by 15c if the barrel cost drops by $15. Something a little fishy there...

Incidentally, demand has dropped in the US, asia and China causing the price drop. As said before, its all about supply and demand.

[03deo]

i think Marc1 the oil companies justify it by saying its because our dollar is doing so well changes things around a bit....they always find an excuse. the main thing that shits me is how when oil jumps in price petrol does immediately, but when it drops they claim it takes time for the effect to flow onto us

[steveandviv]

why is there this mentality that lowering fuel excise will require other taxes increased ????????
we are the 2nd highest taxed nation in the world ??? yes / no.
i am sure that there would not be much actual revenue loss to the budget if they did lower excise as taxes are increasing in most other areas anyhow.
i am sure they wouldnt lower excise anyway,

@ Marc1
if I knew what they should do I would probably run in politics my self.
I do not have a simple answer.
but maybe the govt should stop allowing petroleum companies dictate terms on prices, at the end of the day the govt would have the final word on what they can increase prices to. As is the case with utility prices. doesnt there have to be a justification by the company to increase.????????
i am sure its not as simple as ABC , im not a finance person or in the govt so i am sure there is some work to be done BUT
if you think that what Mr PM Krudd says is gospel and then nothing gets done because we all think he is telling us the truth and we let the issue go then you are naive.
I am sure his spin doctors fill him full of crap
I am sure the govt could do plenty but find it easier to say they cant and sit on their hands.
they dont pay the fuel bills so they dont give a shit.

@ Stomper
ummm Ditto

Well on a quick look we are 7th but whos counting - I was making a JOKE that's why I said so. And, a 5c per litre reduction in excise is worth about 2 billion. Now if we have a budget for the next x amount of years and we are 2 bill short then where do you think all this money is comming from. Sorry if this sounds rude but I think you have it wrong in this case. They will find the additioanl mony or take it from some where. Now I would rather it be invested in education so some body can invent new powers sources rather than just giving $30 back at the pump. Now this is only my opinion

[monee]

has anyone ever seen a dryed up oil well NO .

[Marc 1]

has anyone ever seen a dryed up oil well NO .

Good question. Dry? I doubt it as we have yet to uncover a method of removing every skerrick of oil from an oil field. The question is whether it is economic to recover the remainder.

Here's one example: Buena Vista Oil Field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buena_Vista_Oil_Field)

There seems to be less than 1% remaining in this field - and they have been trying every trick in the book to try and get that.

[V Williamson]

In some of my reading, I understood that Bass Strait is becoming depleted. Is this the case? I further read that there is an enormous amount of oil in the Gladstone Qld shale fields, but the cost of recovery is at this time uneconomic (wonder how Joadja, Hartley, Newnes, Glen Davis all NSW were economic those years ago trying to extract kerosene for the most part).

I aslo had heard that during WW2, oil wells were dug in Qld but recapped, is there oil out there widespread? Does the Jackson field in SW qld produce much?

What about the 1960's era oil exploration in the Simpson Desert and elsewhere in SA. Any finds for later on or is it as dry as dead dingo's donger out there? Is oil under the Great Barrier reef or is that simply a good place to try and look if you could?

Is oil stilll pumped on Barrow Island in WA?

So what oil reserves are understood to be available in Australia including offshore?

My understanding on parity pricing was that the price was needed to encourage exploration. And then you hear stories about oil oozing out of the ground in places because there is so much there. So what's fiction and what's fact about oil reserves in this country?

[itchyvet]

Someone asked what could be done about the extortional rip off by the Internatioanl Corporate Oil Conglomerates rippin us off ?

All it takes is some BALLS, our Govt should NATIONALISE 50% of our oil/gas fields.
Every country in the World that has NATIONALISED their oil fields have cheap petrol and diesel for their own uses, and why shouldn't they, after all, it is their/OUR resource, and the oil companies are supposed to be paying US for the privelidge of pumpin the stuff out at rock bottom costs.

BUT, would our Govt have the backbone to do this, and how long would the criminal oil conglomerates even allow such a Govt to remain in power ?

Wasn't too long ago in W.A. where the Premier there demanded the gas companies put aside 15% of production for the state, and all of a sudden there was an unexplained(to this very day) explosion costing this state dearly, good example of what will happen if we get the back bone to take back what's ours.

[Moshe]

If you think fuel is expensive consider the cost of a litre of beer or milk and then consider how hard each is to produce and you will see fuel is a cheap as chips really

[maddmav]

There was a time when diesel was cheaper than petrol, ever wonder how this was reversed.

I posed this question to Hon Chris Bowen MP - Minister for Competition Policy and Consumer Affairs. What I got back was a great deal of economic information that did not address the 22% gap between the two fuel sources.

However there is an indication of the government subsidising the price of diesel to major industries that use diesel by the tonnes and for this............well the Gov needs to balance the books, so, charge it back to the public users...... as they do.

The price will only be as cheap as to how much you use.

[greybeard]

why is diesel so much cheaper than petrol in europe?
is the specification for diesel much higher in europe than australia? if so wouldn't that imply that it requires greater processing than our diesel and shouldn't that mean it should be more expensive than ours?
or is it that euopean petrol is extremely heavily taxed so the diesel appears cheaper?

[Marc 1]

why is diesel so much cheaper than petrol in europe?
is the specification for diesel much higher in europe than australia? if so wouldn't that imply that it requires greater processing than our diesel and shouldn't that mean it should be more expensive than ours?
or is it that euopean petrol is extremely heavily taxed so the diesel appears cheaper?

Check the other thread - it has info on why diesel is priced the way it is: http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=62209

Some info from 2005 (?) on comparitive tax rates: International Comparison of Australian Taxes - Report (http://comparativetaxation.treasury.gov.au/content/report/html/10_Chapter_8-03.asp)