EFI tuning for ethanol blend fuels

[cr500dude]

I have read about boost 98 ethanol blend fuel being best for power and being cheaper than other 98 octane fuels, so I will be using it every 2nd tank when It wont be sitting in the tank for long. With the slightly different air/fuel ratios needed with ethanol blend fuels, will modern EFI systems adjust the fuel settings when using ethanol blend fuels? My car is a 3.4l V6 Prado, will this one self adjust to run on ethanol and back to normal 98 octane?
I take it that cars will need to have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust to self tune, is this right? Which petrol 4bys have these?

[cac]

don't you need a car with electronic ignition so the ignition timing can be varied by the computer...i think the prado is electronic ignition...but i couldn't be 100% certain off hand....

[cr500dude]

Yes, the Prado has electronic ignition, but some cars can self tune themselves to a certain extent to run slightly richer with ethanol blend fuels and lean off slightly with more dense fuels such as Shell V Power. I just dont know if the Prado will self tune itself back and forth between the 2 different types of fuel or whether it can only be optimized for one fuel on a dyno? I know my BMW motorbike will adjust mixture settings when swapping back and forth between Boost 98 (makes it richer) and Shell V Power (makes it leaner).
Which modern 4bies will also do this???

[Azriel]

You will probably find that the oxygen sensor in the exhaust system will slightly allow the EFI to tune for different fuels and the knock sensor will adjust timing if its an issue. Generally E10 has a slightly higher octane so shouldnt really be any problems with timing.
If its like my car then i have found no difference in running from E10 to standard unleaded.

Just make sure your car manual mentions its OK to use E10 otherwise over time the savings mean squat compared to replacing shot seals, gaskets and at the worse the fuel lines.

[tallpaul]

Just adding to Azriel Thread..

I have a 93 4.5 Toyota EFI Landcrusier Couple of weeks ago I put 50$ worth of shell E10 in the main tank

the next day the vechicle would not pull above two thousand revs and would cut out before putting the ethanol in the cruiser was running fine.

I looked on the shell website and according to there specifications the 93 EFI should run on ethanol E10.

Last week the vechile was idleing ruffly i took it to the local mechanic and after further investigation it was found that the head gasket was blown th vechile was running perfectly alright before putting Shell E10 in and now im up for a $1000 + repair.

I spoke to another independent mechanic who told me that theres not enough known atm about running ethanol blends in ur vechile for the sake of a few $$ saving at the petrol pump it's cost me a heap Not happy never running ethanol again... Tallpaul Newcastle ;(

[tallpaul]

Further to Azerial Thread

I have a 93 4.5 EFI petrol landcruiser about a week or so ago I put $50 bucks of Shell E10 in the main tank the nxt day It wouldnt pull above two thousand revs and would cut out.

I put more unleaded in the main tank and ran whatever fuel i had in the sub tank through and it seemed to rectify the problem i looked at shell's website and according to there specs* My vehicle should run on E10.

Last week the cruiser started to idle ruff i took it to the local mechanics and the head gasket was blown..

I spoke to another mechanic about ethanol blends and he said not enough research has been done atm. Into ethanol So far for the sake of a few $$ at the fuel pump it's gonna cost over a 1000$ in repairs NOT HAPPY Tallpaul Newcastle

:mad::mad::mad:

[ice_spy]

yeah you prob got a heap of water mixed with the ethanol from the pump, as ethanol attracts moisture. bloody E10 crap. its rubbish.

[jg1982]

Last week the vechile was idleing ruffly i took it to the local mechanic and after further investigation it was found that the head gasket was blown th vechile was running perfectly alright before putting Shell E10 in and now im up for a $1000 + repair.

I spoke to another independent mechanic who told me that theres not enough known atm about running ethanol blends in ur vechile for the sake of a few $$ saving at the petrol pump it's cost me a heap Not happy never running ethanol again... Tallpaul Newcastle ;(

IMHO it's very unlikely that the ethanol caused or even contributed to your head gasket failure, it was more likely just bad luck. If it was somehow fuel related then the motor would have been pinging its guts out under load and you would have noticed long before the gasket failed.

And as far as 'not enough known about running ethanol blends', there's plenty of research out there, brazil in particular has been doing it for a long time, and most of the major automotive manufacturers that sell cars there offer 'flex fuel' cars that self-calibrate themselves to run on any blend of ethanol and gasoline.

[wiggo]

dont use ethanol fuel in your car
not only will destroy your engine
it uses more per kilometer than normal unleaded
pretty close to lpg/km

[tallpaul]

Thanks Wiggo.
It seems strange all my problems started straight after a fill of ethanol, yet my Cruiser was running well with no problems.
The old girl has a few Ks on it and now while the engine is down, it might as well have everything new from the cylinder heads up.
Much easier for the mechanic now to Change the oil, fuel filters, New spark plugs, leads etc.

I am thinking of putting LPG on, $2.800 with a 2 grand rebate.the LPG tank is 100 Litre with and with 95 litres in the main tank, should get some reasonable distance before a fill.
Any thoughts from anyone who is running LPG.
tallpaul :confused:

[Azriel]

I am running LPG as my main fuel and run about 30 to 50 kms on petrol after a full tank of LPG just to keep the fuel system happy and relatively fresh.
Not a lot of difference in performance but i admit it does run better on petrol. The way the petrol price is going its definately well worth it.
While your motor is apart you can get it checked over to make sure it will be fine on LPG (valves seats mainly).
Just for some added security and peace of mind i also run valve saver additive through a vacuum line.

I have used E10 a couple of times but only when i knew i was gonna burn it off in a day or 2 as it does attract moisture and go stale quicker (just like the old Optimax used to). However working in the fuel industry and seeing the crap that E10 picks up from converted storage tanks and some of the inconsistencies i'm not going to use it again until it is well established and used reguarly.

Oh and its not new technology by any means as mentioned before its widely used in Brazil as a 85% mix or E85. The cars have been modified and built to handle to corrosive and solvent nature of ethanol.

[tallpaul]

Thanks Azriel.
while the head is apart the mechanic has sent it to be pressure tested and the valve seats checked for seating and wear, at least when its back together, I should have no further problems, as basically from the piston heads up eveyting should be fine.
There is a local mechanic at Cardiff who does a lot of landcruisers to gas, and with the price of petrol, and an $800 outlay after rebate I think the conversetion is well worth it.
There is also a $99 wheel carrier that you can buy to mount the spare inside, Bit like the jeeps insteadof outlaying nearly a grand on a rear wheel carrier, Unless someone knows where to get a cheaper one.
Tall Paul Newcastle
93 cruiser.
:waycool:

[steelo]

I've been running the United 95 ethanol for almost 4yrs now in 2 different types of petrol motors, a Paj with a 2.6L 4cyl & 2 Explorers with the SOHC 4.0L in them with all the computer gizzmo's. I have not had one fuel related probs at all in fact the fuel consumption has improved (just a tad) in the newer Fords, all I do on a regular basis of about 6wks is put in some Flash Lube Injector Cleaner.:D
Oh & the Explorers have the oxygen sensor in the exhaust.

[FERAL ERROL]

I use e10 in my 3 cars and have done for some time and find they all perform better as e10 is 95 octane just my 2cents worth.

[Nemesis]

I used to run Boost 98 from United wherever possible because it was only 3c/L more than regular unleaded, my 1UZ should technically run on 100 octane being from Japan.
Lately however the only United around here has jacked it up to 10c/L more, like normal non-ethanol Premium, so I won't buy it anymore. If i'm going to pay that much more (some though, like BP, often charge up to 16c/L more!) I'll get non ethanol premium.

[boof]

I have run it in a few vehicles with no dramas, I think while their is some truth to the horror stories most are the usual urban myth rubbish.

[jg1982]

I have run it in a few vehicles with no dramas, I think while their is some truth to the horror stories most are the usual urban myth rubbish.

Same, and it seems to me that quite often the ethanol cops the blame when things need replacement that would have stuffed up anyway or are largely unrelated.