Bypass oil filter systems ,Do they work?

[drew64]

I have been trying to find out about bypass oil filter systems and whether they are worth fitting. I have a 4.2td patrol and it costs about $120.00 per oil change . If i could get away with just new filters i could save the cost of the bypass system pretty quickly. Has anyone fitted one of these systems ? and Was it worth it?.

[fullmetaljacket]

I am not a fan of them (but that is just me :D ) because oil will break down over its life regardless of ammount of carbon etc that is present in it, the constant heating/cooling process that the oil goes through everyday will break down the oil molicues (sp) and reduce the viscosity of the oil. Out of intrest what oil have you been using, and what are your service intervals?

[Terrano-saurus]

according to an aircraft engineer from another forum that I am a member of, the high temps in an f18 engine will not have any adverse effect on the 100% synthecic oil that they use he stated that they get some absolutely stupid amount of life out of the oil because there are no contaiminates that get to the oil. ( I can not remember the time frame but it was some huge number of hours like many 1000's) so it is not the heat but the things like carbon, fuel that stuffs the oil up in other sections of the aircraft. This he stated was the far majority of the reasons for vehicle engine oil going bad, so the better the oil filtering system the better protection you will get.

[fullmetaljacket]

thats why I asked what oil was being used as syn and mineral are 2 differant donkeys

[marki]

according to an aircraft engineer from another forum that I am a member of, the high temps in an f18 engine will not have any adverse effect on the 100% synthecic oil that they use he stated that they get some absolutely stupid amount of life out of the oil because there are no contaiminates that get to the oil. ( I can not remember the time frame but it was some huge number of hours like many 1000's) so it is not the heat but the things like carbon, fuel that stuffs the oil up in other sections of the aircraft. This he stated was the far majority of the reasons for vehicle engine oil going bad, so the better the oil filtering system the better protection you will get.

Which raises a question. I'm just about to give the 80 an oil change, and am prepared to spend the $$ for fully synthetic oil. Only prob is that the viscoisity range of the oil 5W/50 lies outside the specs for a 1HZ engine - 15W/40.

Is this a problem? I've taken the conservative route and used semi-synthetic (15W/50), but would prefer the full synth if it's going to be OK.

Oh, and re bypass systems, a bloke I work with imports Frantz bypass systems. I'm going to fit one as soon as I can

[fullmetaljacket]

sorry I should explain my dislike further, the by pass systems do the job they were intend for quite effectively, but rather than not being a fan of the system, I dont like extending services past the reconmendations. So in my opinion by pass systems work for filtering forign particles from the media used, but using them as an extended service tool is up to individual discretion

I have worked for a company that trialed extended services (up to 120,000km) the result was always the same, the oil would gradualy loose its viscosity rating soon after the scedualed intervial. My opinion, my experiances.

[wagnman]

Gday mate.

If you want THE BEST in oil's, filters and any other lubricants and professional advice from a bloke thats easy to talk to get in touch with Steve at mainlube.

mainlube.com (http://www.mainlube.com)

Sorry if this upsets any of the forums sponsors.
I am not in the habit of plugging peoples goods on forums but oil and filters can be a very confusing area for many people and the way oils are promoted to the public is very emotion driven with very little real information to justify the price of the gear.

My 2c

[Pumbaa]

Oh, and re bypass systems, a bloke I work with imports Frantz bypass systems. I'm going to fit one as soon as I can

Do you know how much they are mate? I'm very keen to get one for the Troopy as well.

Are they easy to install for someone with limited mechanicla knowledge?

[marki]

Do you know how much they are mate? I'm very keen to get one for the Troopy as well.

Are they easy to install for someone with limited mechanicla knowledge?

They're not actually available yet - he's getting some bits made up to allow them to bolt onto a 1HZ motor. I'll keep you posted.

But I'm running a Frantz fuel filter - they use dunny rolls as the filter element - I'll post a pic when it stops raining and I get a photo

[pen]

I have a frantz oil bypass system. Put it on early in my 4.2 life. I cange the oil every 20,000kms and the main filters at 30,000kms. The bypass filter is changed every 10,000kms and it only costs $4 for the filter. Plus the oil topup of 1/2 tp 3/4 of a litre.
You can get the system from Mike at frantzaustralia in Melbourne. Mine cost about $220 then (2 years ago) A lot cheaper than kneenoil. Their filters are nearly $18!
Always used them, had them in a laser and then holdens. Use a much larger system (but the same) at work to final clean oil in a small 5MW turbine after the alpha Laval oil separator
You cann't go wrong with them as they only take a small percentage of your main oil flow and after a while the whole system is spotless.

[pen]

Heres a pic of one

[Patrolos]

I'm ordering one AND a fuel filter from Melbourne.

I've heard 2 different stories about diesels and bypass filters.
Some guys say that the oil is almost transparent when filtered and anothers says that it stays black but free of all the bad stuff.
What results are you getting?

[Terrano-saurus]

Just to add to the confusion, he he he Serioulsy though a centerfugial fuel filter is probably I said probably money better spent, because they have been proven over many years to prolong the life of a diesel engine (yes there is documented proof of engine hours of a comparison between a standard fuel filter and centrafugial fuel filter (somewhere but be dammed if I can remember) those of you that want to believe please believe and those of you that don't, well I can not provide the evidence to back up my claim. But I personally believe that with a centrafugiual fuel filter and regular oil and oil filter changes you are on the right track to getting max life from your engine. hope this helps

[Terrano-saurus]

I am not sure if yo can get the correct viscosity. I would spend my money on a centrafugial fuel filter and stick with a good quality mineral oil with regular service intervals. just what I do


Which raises a question. I'm just about to give the 80 an oil change, and am prepared to spend the $$ for fully synthetic oil. Only prob is that the viscoisity range of the oil 5W/50 lies outside the specs for a 1HZ engine - 15W/40.

Is this a problem? I've taken the conservative route and used semi-synthetic (15W/50), but would prefer the full synth if it's going to be OK.

Oh, and re bypass systems, a bloke I work with imports Frantz bypass systems. I'm going to fit one as soon as I can

[Terrano-saurus]

For those that are not aware of a centrafugial fuel filter it is a filter that physicly seperates the very very very small particals from the fuel and every now and then you have to pull it apart (very easy job) and literally scape out all the crap that has built up inside off (this crap would normally get to you engine. it is a bit like sand blasting the inside of the engine and that is why a centrafugal filter prolongs the life of your engine.
clean fuel = no sand blasting = longer life

just my 2 cents guy's

[pen]

your right terrano, they are the best systems. They are installed on long haul trucks. The only thing is that take up alot of room and are expensive to buy. I looked at them first and could only get them from the USA.

The frantz is good, I like that is cheap in filters and it does the job. The oil is still black because of the egr system that the 4.2 uses. I will be blocking it off at the valve and also be putting a petersen catch can on so the turbo is not drawing air from the rocker cover. It puts crap back into the air intake manifold. Eventually the system will clear up as its cleaning and there is not more crap being added as its doing so.

[Big Boots]

according to an aircraft engineer from another forum that I am a member of, the high temps in an f18 engine will not have any adverse effect on the 100% synthecic oil that they use he stated that they get some absolutely stupid amount of life out of the oil because there are no contaiminates that get to the oil. ( I can not remember the time frame but it was some huge number of hours like many 1000's) so it is not the heat but the things like carbon, fuel that stuffs the oil up in other sections of the aircraft. This he stated was the far majority of the reasons for vehicle engine oil going bad, so the better the oil filtering system the better protection you will get.

You cannot compare a jet engine to a motor vehicle engine. Basically jets change their own oil, because they burn oil at roughly 0.2-0.8 quarts per hour. Also if you apply enough heat to anything, it will change.

[me3@neuralfibre]

Oil age is not the problem here, oil condition is. Why dont you get an oil analysis doen. It'll cost you about $40 a time and soon enough youwont have to speculate.

I'll post my results in anohter 1000km from the last 7 analysis I have had.

FYI, looks like extended drains work fine for me.

Paul

[Big Boots]

What have you extended your interval too ? Using what oil and filters ? Cut open a filter when you changed it ? How about engine internal wear rates ?

[me3@neuralfibre]

What have you extended your interval too ? Using what oil and filters ? Cut open a filter when you changed it ? How about engine internal wear rates ?

To be honest I'm still playing.

10000 is factory for 1HZ
5000 is recommened if you have a turbo and what I have done in the past.
15000 is still passing analysis.

Have cut open all filters and have pics. Not sure I can see the point though, is there such a thing as a visibly clogged filter? I was looking at construction and filter medium.

Tried 3 oil / filter combo's over 15000km each, changing filter every 5000km.

Best thing would be if a few other ppl did the same and posted their numbers.

Havn't stripped the motor or anything that extreme, I just wanted to know what my motor was doing.

Paul

[Big Boots]

Ah so the oil does 15k and filter 5k ?

[Rip'n'Shred]

Oil age is not the problem here, oil condition is. Why dont you get an oil analysis doen. It'll cost you about $40 a time and soon enough youwont have to speculate.

I'll post my results in anohter 1000km from the last 7 analysis I have had.

FYI, looks like extended drains work fine for me.

Paul

Very interested to see some results from independant testing!

Have you got anything for us yet?

[Patrolos]

I just fitted a Fratz bypass filter to my oil and one to my fuel. (I also got a Unifilter for my air).
The guy at frantz suggested I get a triple for my 4.2 lt diesel but I opted for a single.
It's made a huuuuuge difference to my GQ. I love it.
If I had my way again I would have got a triple.
BTW. Oil also makes a difference. I replaced my oil with PM oil. They offer free oil analysis if you use their oil. The oil only cost me $182 for a 20 lt drum plus delivery. Bloody cheap for the best oil in Oz if you ask me.

[Patrolos]

UPDATE with Question
The old GQ has been struggling when under load. When I drive up a big hill in our area (Alfords Point Bridge) in 3rd gear, the tacho reads about 2800rpms then it drops and shudders and eventually it'll get up to about 3000rpms to get me over the hill at 70kmh. It fealt like there isn’t enough fuel getting to the motor, so I decided to remove the bypass filter off the fuel line and now it has no problem getting to 75kmh in 4th gear.
I can only assume that the fuel pump can not handle sucking fuel through the bypass filter.
Has anybody else experienced this? Is it common in Nissans or do you think my fuel pump is ratchet?

[Yom]

I think it would be quite common.

Add a low pressure fuel pump at the tank.

[toli]

UPDATE with Question
The old GQ has been struggling when under load. When I drive up a big hill in our area (Alfords Point Bridge) in 3rd gear, the tacho reads about 2800rpms then it drops and shudders and eventually it'll get up to about 3000rpms to get me over the hill at 70kmh. It fealt like there isn’t enough fuel getting to the motor, so I decided to remove the bypass filter off the fuel line and now it has no problem getting to 75kmh in 4th gear.
I can only assume that the fuel pump can not handle sucking fuel through the bypass filter.
Has anybody else experienced this? Is it common in Nissans or do you think my fuel pump is ratchet?

I had this problem with a CAV filter I was installed on my 4.2 diesel landcruiser. You could feel the motor hesitate as it was a stuggle to get the fuel through.

Since then I was told by a CAV dealer that there were some bad batches of the CAV filters made in South Africa, where the filter paper was too tight, hence not letting enough fuel through.

Once I sorted that out I found that the CAV filter became dirty quickly by about 4k kms it needed changing. In the end I decided to go back to the Toyota standard filter. I changed the last filter after 10k km and the current one now has 5k km on it without any issues so far.

My suggestions is try connectin the Bypass backup and try a new filter to see how that goes.

[Patrolos]

I didn't want to write a drawn out post so I left out some detail. I did replace the filter cartridge and it was worse. The bloody thing was actually stalling on me with the new cartridge.
I'll contact the supplier on Monday and see what he has to say. I'd prefer to run the filter because I understand that there are no standards in fuel today. You never know if the fuel you are buying is dirty or clean. The filter cartridge (bog roll) supposedly picks up water if there is any in the fuel along with any solids.

[drifter49]

Regarding extending oil change intervals - its my belief that to do so without carrying out oil analysis would be courting disaster. The oil analysis shows up contaminants like silicone (sand), water, metals etc but more importantly (as far as oil life is concerned) is the TBN. This indicates the ability of the oil to protect the engine against acids produced by combustion. Oil anaysis is not cheap - it is generally cheaper to just change the oil as per the vehicle manufacturers reccomendation.

[toli]

I didn't want to write a drawn out post so I left out some detail. I did replace the filter cartridge and it was worse. The bloody thing was actually stalling on me with the new cartridge.

This would happen when I replaced the CAV filter. It would take a while to bleed the new filter in. I could drive 2 minutes down the road and it would then stall.

To bleed it, I would change it then start the engine and from the engine bay would rev the engine at the same time priming the fuel filter pump. would do this for 5 to 10 minutes and then I would have no problems.

Maybe you can try this also.

[Patrolos]

Toli, I tried it for about 20 minutes. I drove around the Shire and it kept shaking and stalling. It was probably too tight. I'll try another cartridge (bog roll) after I speek to them.
Thanx Mate

[toli]

My guess that it is too much for the injector pump to pull fuel through. As someone else mentioned a low pressure tank pump would help.

Let us know what Fratz say about it.

[fullmetaljacket]

Oil anaysis is not cheap - it is generally cheaper to just change the oil as per the vehicle manufacturers reccomendation.

IIRC the SOS from CAT costs $40, Castrol and Valvoline kits were about $35.........got a funny story about oil analysis......but this is a G rated forum

[Patrolos]

Yep.
We were all right. It isn't uncommon. He suggested I use a booster pump.
I think I might stick with my factory filter and ad the bypass filter to my oil line in parallel to my other oil bypass filter. Why waste it? At least my oil will be absolutely clean.

[FeralDave100s]

I had a an oil bypass filter & fuel filter on my 1HZ from brand new.It had a turbo fitted at 20k. I would change the bypass oil filter at every 5k & top up the oil with 1-2ltr as required. I would do a full oil & filter change at 20k. I had the vehicle for 13yrs & sold it with 330k on it. Never any mecahnical problems.
The dunny roll fuel filter was removed when I took the vehicle in for an injector service due to the restriction it creates and increases the workload for the fuel pump to pull the fuel through.
If you use them you need to use the proper paper as normal rolls will break up & block the oil galleries.

[zagan]

Which raises a question. I'm just about to give the 80 an oil change, and am prepared to spend the $$ for fully synthetic oil. Only prob is that the viscoisity range of the oil 5W/50 lies outside the specs for a 1HZ engine - 15W/40.

Is this a problem? I've taken the conservative route and used semi-synthetic (15W/50), but would prefer the full synth if it's going to be OK.

Oh, and re bypass systems, a bloke I work with imports Frantz bypass systems. I'm going to fit one as soon as I can


lol, 5w/50 is better than 15w/40 oil.

Cold start at 5degC and protects the engine up to 50degC.

where as it's 15degC cold start and 40degC temp protection.

also 100% synth doesn't break down only gets dirty.

[ol blu 40]

lol, 5w/50 is better than 15w/40 oil.

Cold start at 5degC and protects the engine up to 50degC.

where as it's 15degC cold start and 40degC temp protection.

If you don't know what you're talking about, don't post IMO. 5w/50 and 15w/40 DON'T indicate temperature protection at all, it's the VISCOSITY of the oil eg:VISCOSITY of a 15 grade oil when cold and VISCOSITY of a 40 grade oil when hot, hence the term MULTIGRADE!!

Seriously, some people need to do a little research before they think they know what they're talking about...

[truK]

yeah not correct about the viscosity stuff. have a read of Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/) its got some excellent general info (and detailed stuff) about oils. by the way you can get 15W/40 synthetic diesel engine oils (there are a few to choose from)..you dont have to get 5W/50 and they have different applications, one is not generally better then the other.

i have an 80series land cruiser with the 1hd-t engine. i looked into fitting one of the AMSOIL bypass kits (they from the states and from what ive been able to find out very good units). i think if you have the $$ to spare they are definately worth doing and used in conjunction with a decent oil (i was looking at AMSOIL 15W/40 synthetic diesel oil) then you can definately get extended OCI.

i can across 3 problems with fitting a bypass system:

1) 1hd-t engines dont make fantastic oil pressure as standard and i wonder if fitting an oil bypass filter system would take too much pressure from the main lub circuit of the engine...

2) also the feed line for the filter is taken from the oil pressure sender line (next to the oil filter), general advice is that the return line is plumbed into the top of the rocker cover (through the oil fillter cap). my concern with this is that quite a bit of oil would be flowing through the bypass filter so will this extra oil dumping striaght on top of the engine be able to drain back to the sump fast enough and also would it create extra oil "mist" which could flow through the rocker breather line into the air intake and cause the engine to "over run" (run on the oil mist coming through the intake) in an extreme case? an option to avoid this would be to plumb the return line into the sump itself but i worry if this would just be something else that could get damaged when 4wd.

3) cost, its an 18yr old truck with a motor that has already done 285000. whilst it is running awesomely and doesnt use much oil it hasnt been given the best oils or filters for its whole operating life. Also is fitting a couple hundred of dollars worth of filter equip + running synthetic oils + oil analysis every 5000km worth the trouble and the extra $$$$$? currently im just using caltex dello 400 (buying in bulk, 20lt drums $80) with 5000km OCI and genuine toyota oil filters $30 + a filter magnet 10000km FCI.

Even running a synthetic diesel oil at 10000km OCI with toyota filters getting changed at that same interval it would still be cheaper just to use dello 400 at 5000km OCI. I guess the question is which would be better for the engine...and then would this make much of a difference considering the i have no idea what type of oil and filters were used by the previous owner?