headers are they any good!

[terrain patrol]

Hi guys I have been considering replacing the standard exhaust on my td42 patrol with a set of free flow headers and 3 inch free flow exhaust.Is it worth the expense as far as performance gains and engine longevity? A turbo is out of the question as I find the expense hard to justiy and it just adds to the complexity and mechanical stress on the strongest diesel in the business!

[Patrolling Paddy]

I would highly recommend a set of headers/extractors for a gain in power/tourqe and if driven right economy, however I think a 3" on a non turbo will be too big and you would be better off with a 2.5". Prior to going down the turbo route I went from a std exhaust to extractors and 2.5" system and improved economy by about 1km/L and the power and torque was noticably better, plus it sounded sweet.

Hope this helps some.

PP

[toy yoda]

i agree with PP...
header/extractors are indeed beneficial on just about every motor.....they evenly draw used gasses out of the head to the collector and due to there length of ech pipe they allow the next cyl to expell gasses with out the gasses fighting for a way through the std manifold....

this being said if you put the wrong box or wrong pipe on after it , it can neutralise the effect of the pipes

3" on a non turbo imo is too big 2 1/2 is ample

remember too that as a free flow exhaust with headers will usually sound sooo much sweeter that b4 people have the tendancy to be a little more abusive on the throttle pedal jusst to enjoy the engines new found freedom and voice

[terrain patrol]

Thanks guys thats terriffic info ,just need to run it by Mrs accountant and were away! CHEERS.

[toy yoda]

unfo for the minister of finance /leader of the opposition

1)..... the exhaust will improve fuel ecconomy
2)..... the exhaust will decrease the stress put on the engine,,improving life
3).... the exhaust will allow you to use less rpm and as said less fuel but will also improve longevity of injectors and other parts

So in short the exhaust is a small price to pay for increased power ( safety for overtaking ect), improve engine life and fuel usage
win, win for your truck.....Just sell it to the boss in a positive way lol
good luck

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

One thing to realise about fitting headers is that unless you've lucked on the right set of headers, most will move the torque and power band UP in the rev range, not a heap, but enough to be noticeable in a vehicle that gets used in low range at low revs a lot, or if the vehicle has std diff ratios and larger dia wheels, ie 35's teamed with a 4.11 ratio!

Most users will find that the little downside that is brought about by that need for higher revs is far outweighed by the overall gains, but it is something to keep in mind, ESPECIALLY if you are running 35's and std diff ratio's, or spend a lot of time in low range at lowish revs!

Cheers

[toy yoda]

good call

[terrain patrol]

Cheers peter,as usual the font of all knowledge.Planing to retain original ratios,but run 32 coopers,can you suggest a brand of header that would give good results with this combo?

[terrain patrol]

Sh#@ got a foot in both camps now,just bought a tb42 dual fuel for a second car, wonder if the hand brake will let me buy two sets, maybe bulk buy special! Go figure ask approval for a set of headers and exhaust,get a second truck? Be buggered if I can work 'em out!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The headers for the TD42 and the TB42 engines are exactly the same, so you COULD get a matching set?!

[BEU77Y]

A bigger exhaust is always a bonus for the motor. Factory systems are always a compromise of price/noise/ease of manufacture.
I put a 3" on my 1HZ and it improved the breathing of it no end. Just spun easier. 3" was a tad big but I did it hoping I cold turbo/supercharge it later.

Don't worry about longevity of the TD42... a mate has a big ass Garrett and intercooler running 15 PSI with 500,000 on the clock. And it flys.

[terrain patrol]

Has anyone got or are using a brand that they can recommend and how much should I pay for an installed system?

[azzad]

I think pacemaker are supposed to be the goods, when I was looking they could be bought on ebay, sorry cant remember price.

I put a cheaper set on my patrol was about $320, cant think of the brand at the moment, I wouldnt say the 4wd produced anymore HP or torque (backed up by dyno results) but it did rev easier, making it better to drive.

However I wasnt happy with the results and 18months on I have sourced a second hand aftermarket turbo setup, all up including everything (egt, pipe, gaskets etc.) was just under 2k.

Iam reusing the 2.5" exhaust I put on at the same time, minus the muffler. So all up I probablly spent an extra $300 odd dollars on something that I would consider didnt improve the performance of my Patrol considerablly.

Dazza

I just reread some of the other replies and just wanted to add that this is just my experiences and Im not trying to put you off, we all have budgets to work to.

[AJS1]

I have had a set of Perry extractors and a 2.5" mandrel bent system on mine for about 10yrs ,best to go with the mandrel system,I have had no trouble,noticed a big differance in economy and power,
best of luck with the hand brake.

[terrain patrol]

Thanks AJS1 &azzad the biggest problem with purchasing accessories for the 4bee is that no one in the industry can give you accurate info backed up with independent testing to quantify all the claims that are made about whatever widgit they sell or manufacture! It's areal pain in the arse ,but I guess thats the real world. Its only thru the forums that you can get real feed back on what is really the true performance sometimes subjective, but with more responses you can make a reasonably correct descision! Again thanks for all the feedback and keep them coming.

[feet in 2 camps]

Another issue I would like to know about: How do headers affect a vehicle travelling down a steep hill in low 1 on, or just off compression? Would the vehicle travel faster or remain the same? I have a 2.5"system to fit & was told it would be a waste of time without extractors, advise welcome. Cheers, feet in 2 camps.

[jim0001]

One thing to realise about fitting headers is that unless you've lucked on the right set of headers, most will move the torque and power band UP in the rev range, not a heap, but enough to be noticeable in a vehicle that gets used in low range at low revs a lot, or if the vehicle has std diff ratios and larger dia wheels, ie 35's teamed with a 4.11 ratio!

Most users will find that the little downside that is brought about by that need for higher revs is far outweighed by the overall gains, but it is something to keep in mind, ESPECIALLY if you are running 35's and std diff ratio's, or spend a lot of time in low range at lowish revs!

Cheers


Here's what I would do. Ask the potential supplier of the headers (and exhaust ?) if they can provide a dyno sheet with a before and after comparison.

If they can't, then odds are they havent done a comparison. And if they haven't, it's an even bet they are guessing as far as the outcome is concerned. Too may people spend a lot of money on mods to their engine without getting concrete proof in advance that the mod/s do provide the kind of gains they are looking for.

It is not that hard to dyno a car before and after fitting headers and or exhaust systems. If you want to improve the low end torque (as an example) go and get the car dyno'd before, and after. But more importantly, if the supplier of the headers or whatever mod you are looking for can't or won't or hasn't done the homework to demonstrate that what he is selling absolutely will give you the gains you are looking for, find somebody else that has before you spend your money.

Jim

[terrain patrol]

Cheers Jim

[JackoLux]

I fitted a set of headers to a 2.8 Hi-Lux a few years ago ,waste of time and money

There are a lot of things out there that will improve preformance and economy and most of its BS ( Hi-Clone ) I even know ppl that reckon they are great

[agroface16]

lookin to do the same to my truck how much can ya expect to pay for decent headers and mandrel bent exhuast.

[tonto]

my ignorence but whats a mandrel.?

[netman555]

i have headers on my gq swb td42 ,non turbo, it made a big diffrence to performance ,fitted to 2.5"" mandrel exhust,recomend to any oiler.

[gilfish]

tonto remember this from my pipefitting days when you bend a pipe round a former the internal radius puckers while external stretches to reduce/eliminate this a solid core moves down the pipe as it is bent round the former this is what is called the mandrel ours was the largest in the southern hemisphere 30years ago in the shipyard at whyalla would bend six inch pipes and pulled through by cable hope this explains it to give smooth pipe bore

[mackerelmauler]

This site has a few pictures as well as describing the process of a Mandrel bend.

What is Mandrel Bending? at Van Sant Enterprises' Trick Tools.com (http://www.vansantent.com/definitions.htm)



mackerelmauler

[tonto]

cheers guys that makes it easy .
Now how about a standard '98 Rodeo 2.8 deseil turbo are extracters and better exhaust system going to make a difference. Most of my driving is on contry gravel/dirt roads & 8 hour trips to Adelaide. Not much 'off road stuff'

[4 play]

cheers guys that makes it easy .
Now how about a standard '98 Rodeo 2.8 deseil turbo are extracters and better exhaust system going to make a difference. Most of my driving is on contry gravel/dirt roads & 8 hour trips to Adelaide. Not much 'off road stuff'

Sorry bud but you carnt have extractors with a turbo.The turbo manifold replaces the extractors.A larger free flowing exhaust will help though.

[woza_black]

Just some food for thought, extractors are a great thing but the standard TD42 exhaust manifold is pretty good when you compare it to the one on the Toyota 1HZ. It makes it a tough decision to spend the extra if the gains aren't significant. On my NA GQ swb I went for a 2 1/2" hi flow exhaust and I put in a K&N air filter. Sounds good and goes well.

[terrain patrol]

Sorry guys havent been back to this thread for a while,had other priorities(sidewall staked 2 Yokis which moved the tyre descision forward and spent dollars on braided extended brake lines ,dbs slotted rotors and blue stripe bendix pads which reaaaaaaly stop the thing!),I am still looking for the right combination of header,exhaust fitter and price.Going to the Pilbara in September and somewhere on the Gibb River Rd in October so the fitting will come soon, will post results ASAP.

[terrain patrol]

Hell yes they are good!Ive had a system fitted now for nearly 3wks and have been very impressed with the results.I went with a set of Mercury HiTec headers fitted by Mettams Mufflers in Kelmscott WA with a custom bent 2.5 inch system matched to a Mercury Muffler. The exhaust was very professionaly fitted ,all tucked up out of the way and solidly mounted.The fitter there showed me the custom made flex joint that they were using prior to fitting and mentioned that a lot of fitters re use the original flex coupling to save dollars which will just choke the whole system ,and looking at the original coupling in comparison I could see why ,its tiny 1.5 inches by my guess!For those interested in price ,all up fitted $800.00.
The results so far are pretty impressive,The engine now revvs much more freely from around 2500rpm to 3500rpm and beyond ,where as before it very reluctant past 3000rpm ,and also holds revs much more readily under load ,a recent trip towing and heavily laden on the Grt northern Hwy past Muchea to New Norcia was a revelation. Up and down long steep gradients without the normal shift down to second gear and 40km/hr with steadily rising temp,to 3rd gear 70km/hr no problem temp spot on!Temp control has been a real benifit ,I guess from better gas flow and Ive also noticed a soot deposit around the rear bar that wasnt there before ,which I suspect is a result of the vastly improved flow ,better there than in the oil and cylinders.
Fuel economy has been a bit difficult at this stage to quantify because Ive been a bit heavy on the loud pedal ,as some of you guys have mentioned the note of the engine is just sensational and its been hard not to get carried away and give it some ,although I think that even with me doing this it looks like Im going to get another 60Km out of my 140litre tank with combined city and Hwy driving.Not a very scientific test I know ,but appears to be a substantial gain ,great news with diesel prices in the stratosphere in the bush.

[jerbGQ]

Hell yes they are good!Ive had a system fitted now for nearly 3wks and have been very impressed with the results.I went with a set of Mercury HiTec headers fitted by Mettams Mufflers in Kelmscott WA with a custom bent 2.5 inch system matched to a Mercury Muffler. The exhaust was very professionaly fitted ,all tucked up out of the way and solidly mounted.The fitter there showed me the custom made flex joint that they were using prior to fitting and mentioned that a lot of fitters re use the original flex coupling to save dollars which will just choke the whole system ,and looking at the original coupling in comparison I could see why ,its tiny 1.5 inches by my guess!For those interested in price ,all up fitted $800.00.
The results so far are pretty impressive,The engine now revvs much more freely from around 2500rpm to 3500rpm and beyond ,where as before it very reluctant past 3000rpm ,and also holds revs much more readily under load ,a recent trip towing and heavily laden on the Grt northern Hwy past Muchea to New Norcia was a revelation. Up and down long steep gradients without the normal shift down to second gear and 40km/hr with steadily rising temp,to 3rd gear 70km/hr no problem temp spot on!Temp control has been a real benifit ,I guess from better gas flow and Ive also noticed a soot deposit around the rear bar that wasnt there before ,which I suspect is a result of the vastly improved flow ,better there than in the oil and cylinders.
Fuel economy has been a bit difficult at this stage to quantify because Ive been a bit heavy on the loud pedal ,as some of you guys have mentioned the note of the engine is just sensational and its been hard not to get carried away and give it some ,although I think that even with me doing this it looks like Im going to get another 60Km out of my 140litre tank with combined city and Hwy driving.Not a very scientific test I know ,but appears to be a substantial gain ,great news with diesel prices in the stratosphere in the bush.


Hey TP,
Just wondering if, now that the honey moon is over, you are still happy with the headers? I've been considering them for a while myself. Have you noticed any detriment to the low range torque or engine braking?

Would you spend $800 again?

[Moshe]

yes definately

[terrain patrol]

Best money Ive spent so far!It really has changed the whole drivability of the Patrol,for what I would call low buck and risk.It's not just me who thinks so either.I recently competed in our clubs Mud Gymkhana with all the touring gear on board including twin rooftop campers and it went like the clappers!So much so that a few of the Guys have now invested in similar exhaust systems thru mettams mufflers and their feedback has been very similar(1xGQ 4.2td42 and 1x80series 4.2dieselpoverty pack)There were even a few who thought it was turbo or engine swapped,and were quite surprised to find a standard td42!
As far as low range torque is conscerned,I suspect it is a fair bit higher but further up the rev range.I find that it seems to be more usable in the 2500 to 4000 rev range and there is no effect on engine braking.The engine seems quite happy to rev higher and in fact sounds better and feels like it should be there,if you know what I mean?There have been quite a few threads posted where the opinion is that you should work your diesel reasonably hard and that they thrive on it,low revs choke them death and so far I would have to agree.

[Kitika]

I got my 80series 1hz done on Wednesday and she goes so much better now! Revs heaps faster and easier and seems to have a bit more poke. I had some trouble with my extractors because of the supercharger mounting bracket and some clearance issues with firewall...(2nd hand extractors of a different model car) So had to modify every pipe coming on the extractors to make them fit in. I got 2x 2.5inch pipes coming off the extractors and going into a twin genie turbo muffler and then had it dumped just before the right hand rear tyre. Sounds so good and performs so good! Now I just have to figure out any economy gains/losses.
Costs all up:
2nd hand extractors= $100+2 weekends to modify and bolt on
6metres of 2.5inch pipe= $115
Muffler= Free (had in shed from old mans v8 sahara)
Labour to get pipe bent up and fitted= $330
The sound alone made it a worth while investment:D

[jerbGQ]

Right, so I've got the import GQ : Nissan Safari. It's got a PTO winch, handy bit of kit, but premade headers don't fit with the PTO in place.

Any ideas on adapting premade ones, or having some fully custom made?

Are people bothering with mandrel bends after extractors?

I'm starting to think about buying my own pipe bender. THen I could make a roll bar too.

[Kitika]

I modified some premade ones to fit on my cruiser because the premade ones didn't fit because of the supercharger. But I also got the headers really cheap so it didn't bother me if I stuffed up a little bit. I don't think I'd do it again because of all the hassle of getting the angles right and adding in the extra pipe etc was a pain in the a$$ to weld. Did it all with a stick welder too:thumb:
Altho i'm loving the ability to rev and the sound that erupts from her now:)

Also we tried to bend some pipe to make up the exhaust and found it extremely hard to do... We ended up towing the cruiser 75k's to get it done by a proffesional because it was way to hard for us to get right. Could have been our pipe bender and our lack of knowledge tho:o

I got quoted about $500 to $1000 to get some extractors modified and fitted which is why i went down the path of modifying them myself