TD42 surging

[MEGATROL]

hey all just saw this new section so thort id be the first to put a thread on here.

anyway i fitted a AXT turbo kit to my 92 TD42 about half way thu 07' its all running fine after getting it tuned to 13psi and upping the fuel. but the one thing i have noticed that when upping it around town mainly roundabouts it tends to surge asthough its running outa fuel. iv noticed on a coulpe of mates utes that they have an extra inline electric fuel pump half way along the chassis. is this what i need on my truck or not???? iv also had one of the fellas at work whos right into fast cars say that mayby a surge tank is needed to keep the fuel supply up to the engine.

Any info would be great CHEERS

MEGATROL

[Patrolling Paddy]

Does it tend to happen regardless of how full/empty the tank is??
The pick up in the tank is on the right side (on the rear tank) so does it happen if you turn into a left bend or only right around the roundabouts?

I can't see a TD42 pumping enough fuel (even if it is maxed out) to warrant a surge tank and you certainly can' tell me that you have that much accelaration (I also have a GQ TD42 12psi and fuel cranked) that the fuel is leaving the pickup.

Maybe a minor leak that is opened up when cornering.

PP

[Yom]

An inline fuel pump isnt a bad idea at all.

[Walt]

Before you spend all that money, change your fuel filters and air filter. My 75 did it from word go after putting an AXT turbo on the 1HZ Changed the filters and it was fine, did it a little while down the track, same thing, cleaned the filters and it was fine.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The TD42 injector pumps do have a few issues with 'smooth delivery' of fuel, and they pretty much all have a hiccough at around 2200-2400 rpm, and again up around 3400 rpm. These range from virtually un-noticeable on some, thru to a right pain on others, and some can even get so bad that the vehicles cannot be driven at any revs higher than the 2200 rpm, with real fuel starvation and lack of power issues.

Some of this has been blamed on the various in-line filters that have been added over the years, and some is blamed on the internals and the 'transfer pressure' inside the pump. There are various work arounds, some expensive, some cheap, and most frustrating if you have a hiccough getting worse and worse!

So could it be that what you are experiencing is this hiccough? Maybe you could describe exactly what occurs and how it presents a little more than you have so far? Does it feel like a cough or two, or just a dead spot on the accellerator that has to be got thru before the engine picks up again? What about smoke? Do you get any smoke when it occurs? If you run the engine up to revs in neutral, does it smoke any? What sort of colour is the smoke, and does it sound/look like the engine is missing, or sufferring from fuel starvation.

Tell us all a bit more, and there might be a better answer for you!

Waiting to hear?!

[90MAV]

G'day,
New on here and noticed MEGATROL's question as I'm having a similar problem though I don't have a turbo on my beast. Doesn't always do it and more noticeable after driving a while at steady 60km/h (or thereabouts). When accelerating from 50 to 60 in 4th (1400 - 1600 rpm) it feels like I'm pumping the loud pedal tho I'm obviously not doing that. Vehicle is a 90 Maverick :LWB TD42 5spd. Any suggestions gratefully accepted.

[MEGATROL]

thanks for the replys fellas.

PETER- As for your questions its more like a deadspot but if i keep the pedal down it it overcomes it and powers on and thats it. as for smoke i cant say iv ever looked so ill have a look next time it happens. it doesnt do it all the time only sometimes when im really up it.

WALT- i did change the fuel filter at 200thousand kms and its got nearly 230 on it now with the turbo being fitted at 215thou so i might change it out and see how that goes. as for the air filter its a K&N filter and it gets cleaned about every 1000kms.

PP- iv got about half a tank in it now so ill see if i can get it to do it. and you have mentiond about a minor leak. i know it has a leak coming out of the seam on the rear tank (only have 1 tank) so maybe its got sumthen to do with that. that might be this weekends job to pull the tank out and fix the leak

Thanks for all the info guys ill be sure to let you know how it all goes

MEGATROL

[Patrolling Paddy]

Megatrol
I actually meant in the fuel line more than the tank, maybe it gets a small air buble every now and then under the right conditions.
I also have a slight weep from the seem in the tank but I wouldn't get too concerned with that.

It sounds like a fuel filter might be the first job cause 30k km is probably too long to leave it. Are you running the CAV type filter or the std one? If you convert it to the CAV type the filter elements are only about $10-$15 and I normally try to change it about every 10k km.

Keep us posted

PP

[MEGATROL]

PP
I havnt had a chance to change the filter yet as i havnt been to town for a week or so. What do u mean by CAV type filter?? as far as i know its just the std filter

Megatrol

[Patrolling Paddy]

Do a search on here and you might find some more info.
The CAV type filter is a replacement for the std one, it has a glass bowl on the bottom and with this you can see any contamination in the fuel, it also has a filter element that is better than the std ones and is a damn sight cheaper.
It is a common conversion and I got mine through Coventry's but they should be available at Auto shops too.


PP

[dakar61]

Three quick questions Megatrol;

How many KM`s has the pump done?

How far did you turn up the fuel? (turns or fractions of a turn of the fuel screw)

Did it do it before you turned up the fuel output?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Megatrol, I seriously doubt that a surge tank or an in-line electric pump will help your problem, it sounds to be much more like a fuel starvation issue caused by blocked filters or maybe even poor timing on the injector pump?! The OE pump itself is able to push way more fuel than you'd ever be able to use without major mods! My first thought would be the same as PP suggested, change the filters! I say filters, cos with most Patrols, there is more than ONE fuel filter in the line!

A few years back Nissan Filters had a slight problem in that the filter element material itself would break down once it was in use, and the material of the filter itself shed tiny particles that would get blocked in all sorts of things. Nissan changed the filters to a different material and changed colours for a while too, they were sorta silver grey in colour for a while, then once they had established that the filters were no longer breaking down, they reverted to the old Nissan Blue! BUT, surprisingly, there are still some of the ancient blue elements out there with the shedding problem, and on the odd occasion they surface, creating the problems you are encountering, ie creating the 'dead spot' or worsening the hiccough that is always there. There were a couple of other 'fixes' let loose on the public too, in an attempt to reduce any issues that might arise cos of this issue.

One of the well know outcomes, you might have heard that since about 1994-5, Nissan have had a tiny little gauze filter in the bleed screw on top of the banjo bolt on the return line on the top rear of the injector pump? Most Nissan Dealers/owners are aware of this one, and getting it blocked can give you the 'dead spot' problem. It's easy enough to unscrew the bleed screw entirely, pull it out of the banjo bolt, and clean the filter out with compressed air or solvent. The filter is not removable, it's captive in the bolt, and if you want a replacement, the only way is second hand or to replace the entire banjo bolt from Nissan, about $80 worth!

BUT, you probably wouldn't have heard that when the filter break down problem first arose, most fuel injection places that got to look at a Nissan TD42 added a tiny little gauze filter on the INLET side of the pump as well! Under the banjo bolt on the top front of the pump's engine side. To get it out, start by removing the banjo bolt. If your pump has this filter, you'll find a spring in the inlet hole about 40mm long, and if you get a fine engineer's scribe with a little hook on the end, you should be able to hook out this tiny gauze filter - no spring, not likely that there's a filter in there, but probly worth a check anyhow. If it IS in there, it's about 40mm down, so you need a fine, long, hooked end scribe or similar to get it out, and once out it can usually be cleaned with compressed air, just blow thru it backwards! It is intended as a last ditch effort to catch anything that gets into the fuel between the filter and the pump - not all have it, and you'll never find it on the Nissan parts listing, in fact, lots of Nissan Dealers/parts interpreters don't even know it's there, but it is available and it even has a Nissan Part No which I can provide if you need it! About $14 from Nissan, usually about $9 from a Diesel injector/pump place! Well worth checking for it, and if it's there and clogged, it WILL be adding to your 'dead spot' worries, and the ever present hiccough!

And finally, if you already use the CAV type replacement filter, with the bowl on the bottom, there have just recently been a spate of aftermarket filters (not CAV's own gear as far as I know?!) doing the same thing as those old Nissan filters; as you use them the material of the filter itself breaks down and lets tiny particles from the filter system pass into the pump or that gauze filter. If you have that tiny gauze filter on the inlet side, you'll get the dead spot as it starts to clog up, eventually that will become a real fuel starvation issue as the filter clogs more, and I don't know what will happen if you don't have the tiny gauze filter, but I don't want to find out with any of my pumps, it can't be good! PM me if you think you might be having this problem and I'll tell you the details that I have on brand etc, I'm pretty sure that it's only a problem in a specific batch or range of batches, cos I've used these filters for years without any issues, and only recently had problems. However, just recently I've had 4 filters from one supplier all do it, and two from another, all before I heard that it was being a problem. I was just replacing the filters with new units from the same batch, and pulling my hair out (what little is left) at the continuing fuel starvation issue! Once I found out about the elements breaking down, I replaced the filter with one from a different batch and starvation issues dissappeared! Since then I've run CAV, Delphi, & Sakura filters without running into the same problem. So it might be worth a check of the brand of filter you are using at the moment. If it's a recently changed filter, and not of those brands above, note down the brand and batch number and PM me, or just see if you can replace it with another filter from a different batch. That should help resolve your problem a little, too!

Hope all this helps, it really does sound like a fuel starvation issue, and unless the pump is seriously compromised, then a surge tank or in-line booster won't help. If the pump IS seriously compromised, then while they MIGHT help, they won't fix the failure in the pump, only getting that sorted will, and then you won't need the others! Anyhow, check all your filters, and these little added filters/problems, they may very well resolve your worries!

Good Luck!



BTW, the CAV type filter heads run elements that filter down to about 9 microns, as opposed to the OE filters that are not so fine. I'm not positive of the number anymore, but I think they were about 30 microns??! Anyone confirm that? Regardless, 9 microns is a pretty good filtration level, and the CAV or even the Scania style replacement Filter Heads are a great investment in the longevity of your Injection pump!

[dakar61]

Peter, the fuel injection places didnt add that filter in the inlet as you say. It was added by Zexel into their pumps, not all, from about 1996 onwards.

Thirty microns is the rating for primary sediment type filters. The general limit for use on rotary style pumps is 10 microns for final filters. I`d doubt very much that the Nissan OE part is 30 micron.

Megatrol; any answers to previous quetions?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

It was the fuel injection places that told me THEY added the little filters to the pumps, dakar, but it could well be that they were referring to adding them to the pumps that were pre 96! Regardless, if you are having fuel starvation issues, it is one to look for, even if the pump is a pre 96 pump! I've run into more than a few early pumps with them there, and all were clogged!

Re the Micron's, like I said, I really can't recall what the OE Nissan number is, but I do remember the gob smacking surprise when I heard what it was rather than what I expected! And I know that the CAV, Delphi, & Sakura elements at 9 micron are finer, and I'm reasonably sure that Fleetguard and Ryco are as well. But if 30 microns is the normal rating for primary sediment filters, then that's probably where that number comes from and probably why it comes to mind!

Cheers

[dakar61]

Be careful with the fleetgards Peter, different print coluor denotes different micron rating, eg maroon denotes 30 micron, good only for stopping rocks. I steer clear of all them. Bad reputuation for splitting filter cases too.

[dakar61]

BTW, Nippon Max make great aftermarket reasonably priced filters also..

Sorry to hijack your thread Megatrol. How did you go?

[BIG PATROL]

Can,t remember all the details, but with the nissian FIPs the advance mech in the FIP can stick, this gives the problems listed. It is caused by the different metals use on the advance piston, one wears quicker than the other causing a lip to form, restricting the movement of the advance mech causing this problem.

[philjwturbo]

hi,i have had this problem with surging i found it to be the filter when it starts happening at 2800-3000rpm under load in 3rd it has after market cav system i dont use the ryco filter as i found the slits seem to be to small as i only delpha or baldwin as they have much larger holes