Beadlocks - What's your posion?

[wooders]

So just wondering what's everyone take on beadlocks?
So you run internals, extrenals or none???
Most importantly WHY???
(For the record I have externals - will elaborate why soon).... 8)

[Slunnie]

I don't run them, but are internals street legal?

[wooders]

Sent to me from Gotta Love My Suzi - So I thought it best to put it here (hope that's ok mate)

"I plan fitting externals to my zook sometime down the track...only problem is suspect is the on road legalities. give me alloys and a daily driver and they'd be internal. With comp tyres though and super low pressure I'd be inclined to use externals. On the topic of tyres and beadlocks and stuff, what do you reckon is the ultimate comp tyre or do different designs suit diffrent 4wd's. I was thinking with my zook, to use Simex jungle trekkers.

Zook_the_almighty "

[wooders]

Ok here's some of my take on beadlocks....

Leaglities:
Non-beadlocked obviously don't have any legal issues as long as they aren't 10" wide and are within the allowed increase (25mm?) from the supplied width...Otherwise it's engineering cert time...
MOST Externals are not road legal. As far as I can determine the only reason is because of the mounting face is welded to the rim and under ADR's you are not allowed to have circumfrence welds on the outer rim....However since it is possible to get forged alloy beadlocks without the weld - I'm not sure if anything specifically makes them illegal (anyone know?)....But Since I'm running TSL swampers which are not road legal either (not speed rated) It seems a moot point to have road legal rims....So I have two sets of wheels & rubber (like plenty of others do)...
Internals Are road legal becuase they are effectively just a tube inside the tyre....well a bit more than that - but.....from a legality persective I don't believe there is anything ruling them out....but them you also have to make sure that the tyres you plan to run are street legal too ro you're really not any better off.

Cost
Internals Can be bought for between $200-$300 each....I believe the TireLok (swedish brand) is in the $300 range, and there a new Aussie brand which I can't recall the blasted name right now which I think was about $200 (or theres abouts).....Naturally you've still got the cost of the underlying rim too...
Externals - well I cheated, I bought mine secondhand (hardly used) cost me $150 each and since I knew I'd be running two sets of rims/tyres (because I wanted to run swampas) well the externals certainly had the cost advantage.

Other considerations
Good
I like the fact that with externals I can simply carry a spare tyre without the extra rim and if needbe, can simply unbolt the tyre to swap - no bead breaking tools required.
bad
The steel externals are not exactly light....combined with the incorrect amount of right foot - this makes axle carnage more of a possibility.
Running two sets of rubber means you get plenty of practice spinning the wheel brace - I REALLY gotta get a rattlegun ;)

That's enough from me for now...anyone else???

[my45]

yeah slunnie the internals are totally leagal

[bentzook]

I bought mine secondhand (hardly used) cost me $150 each

Gee I bought mine at $135 each brand new, I guess its best to shop around and don`t buy them through a 4x4 shop.

[wooders]

Ops should have mentioned one of the major downfalls of (newer) Jeep Ownership, the stud pattern in 5 on 4.5" whichisbloody non existant on other 4be's so rims are more expensive since they are nearly alwaysbrought in from the US.....

[Simon]

Wooders,

do you mean the TIRELOCs are $300 each? As in $1200 for 4 wheels?
Maybe I dont want them anymore :o
Might just buy a packet of pk screws and a drill ;)

[wooders]

Yup....
But the Aussie one are Only about $200each ;)

[my45]

Yeah but the aussie ones are only 8" wide or less :( :( so anyone with those FAT rims could have to cough up $300


I have heard the their in the process of making 10" aussie internals ;) ;D

Cheers

[big red]

i have JT beadlocks and one advantage is that you can still mount a tyre in the normal manner as the locking ring base is welded to an intact rim, not a cut down one.
So if i break a locking ring i can mount the tyre normally to get home.
the disdvantage is these rims are not coined so you have to keep a good eye on them to make sure the wheelnuts don't come loose.
shane

Secondair is the name of the aussie ones.

putting a set in the prado 285 MTR's on 8" rims for bush work.

Less than $200 ea and no broken bolts to keep fixing..... ::)

[Kev.]

Why are bead locks only used on the out side of the rim ?
???

To me thats only fixing half the problem!!!!!

[srowlandson]

Why are bead locks only used on the out side of the rim ?
???

To me thats only fixing half the problem!!!!!

The only bead you generally knock off is the outer bead, and also if you did some statistics, you would find it was generally also the front wheels.


The Mechanical Beadlock also adds strength to the rim.


Both internals and Externals have their Pros and Cons, I have tried Externals on my old GU with Q78 Swampers which worked well, just have to keep making sure all the bolts are tight, as well as the wheel nuts eh Darren ;)


I will be getting the Aussie Internals for the Trxus on the Prado, in the coming months.

Steve

[Tlux]

What's an extrenal?

[my45]

These are extermals
http://www.bigballsoffroad.com/prod44.htm

just weld em on and bot ur tyres to em :)

Cheers

[baby_troupe]

I don't use them & I don't need them.

I like to watch this stuff, but I have no inclination to do what they do to my own vehicle.

[wooders]

My general rules are:

If you aren't poping a bead occassionally - you're running too much air.....
If you're not popping beads you don't need beadlocks ;)

BTW not ALL external beadlocks only do the out rim - some do lock both sides, but as said above generally when you pop a bead it's the outter bead - US baja style racers often run extrenal beadlocks on both beads.

Its not popping beads wooders......

Its rotating the rim in the tyre..... you musnt be letting enough air out....... or dont have enough torque.... ;D

[wooders]

I've never had enough torque for my liking yet..... :'(

Ive found 500-600nm @ the wheels works well....

Had that in 2 4wd's so far ;D

[baby_troupe]

How many cubic inches drove it though???

4.5 litres in one, 7.5 litres in the other, one turbo intercooled, one 454 ci of Chev cast iron and alloy ;D

Everyone should have a Big Block at least once in their life!

[baby_troupe]

I only have 2 people left to convince. 1 is the thumb print, the other is the bank manager. I think the bank manager is the easy option.

[jimmyb]

running procomp beadlocks on the XJ with 3.75" backspace. only run them when i play. run the stock alloys around town.

[mav]

Secondair is the name of the aussie ones.

putting a set in the prado 285 MTR's on 8" rims for bush work.

Less than $200 ea and no broken bolts to keep fixing..... ::)


hi,
do you know the name of the company that makes secondair or a contact for them so i can find out some more info.
thanks mav

Try Pro Comp Pro Shop Vesper Rd Hallam, tell them DArren sent you and have you sold my rims yet... they will know... ;)

[Lotza MUMBO]

hi,
do you know the name of the company that makes secondair or a contact for them so i can find out some more info.
thanks mav


The name of the company that makes these is Beadlock Australia P/L they are located in Ringwood Victoria -Phone- 03 9876 1511 or Email on beadlockaustralia@bigpond.com.au
Roger Smith the Range Rover driver of Outback Challenge Fame owns this company.

And he will refer you to Aust Competition Tyres Vesper Rd Hallam, as Rog is a wholesaler, manufacturer, not a retailer..........

[Lotza MUMBO]

::) ::) And he wanted the manufacturers details so i gave them to him ::) ::)

[BLU-125]

We probably should point out that beadlocks are really best used on competition style cross-ply tyres like Baja Claws, Swampers or those Asian things. Radial ply tyres that are run at pressures low enough to need locks probably aren't going to last too long.

[MickRangie]

I got me some 2nd Air beadlocks the other day...

Getting them fitted to 35" SImeX Cents on reversed Disco Rims...

[LEXX]

ok here goes my version on beadlocks.

A while ago I invested in some Baja Claws and thought ok lets go some smicko Procomp Beadlock wheels becuase I was sick and tired of breaking a bead with my other tyres. Fitted the beadlocks and I was a happy camper, unbeknown to me that the beadlocks really need to be suited to the tyre I was running, so a week after I get my beadlocks fitted I decide to head off to Tassie for a touring holiday. 3 days beofre we are to come home the missus asks me " do all the holes need to have a bolt in them?" I quickly check the situation and low and behold the beadlocks were breaking bolts!!! OK no biggy really I'll just make sure the tye has a decent amount of air and all will be good untill I get back to Vic and I can get it sorted. Get back to Vic and have a discussion with the guy who fitted them and his reply was " geez the first time I've ever seen this", and this guy reagualy compeates, so we replace all the bolts making sure it just wasn't a bad lot of bolts and very nice high tensile top quality bolts.

Two weeks after that I head to Coffs Habour by the time I reach Albury I had lost approxomately half of the bolts on all my wheels and the rear two were basiclly flat. So after a call to the guy who fitted them we replace them all with nice stainless steel blots and inserting ground down washers in the beadlock to act as a spacing ring. All was good only lost 2 bolts on the way to Coffs and Back again.

OK I was getting a bit peeved about the whole beadlock thing and decicided to invest in some internal beadlocks. After a long and tense discussion with my 4wd guru I was directed away from internals. reason being was the Jeep was to be used as a daily driver and not a comp rig. Big draw back with internals was the fact that if you were unfortunate the get a flat on the open road you wouldn't really feel it and also the case on the trail becuase the internal locker is keeping the tyres handling charaterists close to inflated, so you end up destroying a tyre withut realising it. Secondly they are a bitch to change if need be, and can make the tyre do some funny things on road.

So after being completly peeved and confused I ask "ok what do I do then?", it was decided to run a set of Simex tubes as a cheap amn internal beadlock and I have to say that I would never run without them now. In a few mud pits I have completely dislodged the bead and the tyre is still operating to it's fullest, just claen the bead and go for a drive and all is good. The only time I've had problems is when I completly ripped off a valve stem.

Also if the vehicle is going to be a daily why do you feel the need to run beadlocks on the open orad, my advice is go a set of tubes and go and have fun. Also if you have the misfortune of someone sticking things into your tyre while your at the supermarket all you have to do is patch to the tube and your off again, easy.

My 2c

Seems you have been the victim of bad advise, and bad service.

Yes the bolts will break if the beadlock doesnt pull up tight, and arent checked regularly for the first week, and tensioned correctly.

External are also illegal, and if you had an accident with the bolts allowing the tyre down, bye bye insurance.

The internal Secondair beadlocks are easy to fit, [took me less than 2 hrs to do all 4 inc drilling rims] and easy to maintain, they are awsome on road, especially when the tyre pressures are let down, and hold both inner and outer beads on the rim, stopping stuff getting under your bead like the tubes all together pretty much.

I have run good quality tubes for years, but the secondairs are awsome in comparison, and will stop the tyre rotating on the rim at low pressure.

[YankeeDave]

Does anyone know where i can get new outer rings for my bead locks,

16 stud not 24

[shakes]

yeah slunnie the internals are totally leagal


sure....? your still modifying the rim by drilling a hole in it, this hole "modifies" the structual integrity of the rim meaning it is no longer legal.

its just that most cops make coments like "ohh two valves, how come you got two valves?" so it generally goes un-noticed

[Mick.]

sure....? your still modifying the rim by drilling a hole in it, this hole "modifies" the structual integrity of the rim meaning it is no longer legal.

its just that most cops make coments like "ohh two valves, how come you got two valves?" so it generally goes un-noticedYou can buy custom wheels these days that have the 2 valve holes all ready in them which would get you over that loope hole.:waycool:

Cheers Mick.

[landcrusier ute]

ok here is a cheap opition that we use we run 35 at 8 psie and rooled rims like crazy so what we did was run tubes in the tyres and have never rolled a tyre yet but that is what we do

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Yeah but running tubes in the tyres won't stop the rim spinning inside the tyre, taking the tube with it and ripping the valve stem off in the process! They work "Sorta" as a cheap beadlock, but there is no real competition to the Second Air Beadlocks (or Staun or warnd or whatever you want to call them, they're all the same stuff) and they WORK well!

BUT, i've fitted a few in a workshop, and it's been hard enough to convince me that I really don't want to hafta do an internal tyre repair on a tyre fitted with internal beadlocks when I'm out in the bush. If I add the same sort of dollars as the beadlocks cost for each rim to the cost of the tyres I currently run, I can afford to buy some pretty Hi-Tech Kevlar belted Rally tyres or off-road tyres that are almost bullet proof, un rollable off the rim, and puncture resistant to a far greater degree than anything else you can get for the $$. So while there are some attractions to the Beadlocks, I don't roll a bead off the rim often enough to consider them as a real alternative to dedicated off road tyres, or even to on road/off road compromise tyres. I'll save the $$ and look at the Kevlar belted off road tyres thanks!

[Liam@bbm]

Aahh, a subject close to my heart.

Technically any modification to the rim after manufacture is illegal. You have to be a member of the Wheel and Tyre assosiation to repair/modify rims with approval. It's basically a closed shop (trust me, I've been down this path)

The pressure cast alloy beadlocks with a bolt on ring is not legal ( tried that one too) as the Wheel and Tyre association don't recognise the design as maintain the bead with an approved JJ standard pattern.

"ericson" style internal runflats are only deemed legal if fitted by the original VEHICLE manufacturer. (So H1 Hummer runflats can only be fitted to a H1 Hummer) I have no idea what the reasoning behind this is...they wouldn't tell me as I'm not a member...you can by the standards info, but there's no obligation to tell you what the reasoning is

Screwing the beads to the rim is not legal ( and is only a marginal fix for drag racing uses, where theres no real side load)

Kevlar rally tyres are for rally cars...they dont last long are not designed to work at low presures. Those that do ( Stonewalls, baja FC's, Baja pro's) are not legal on the road , not speed or load rated and are actually stamped to reflect this. Offroad racers don't air down to 3 PSi and go crawling.

With the weld in beadlocks the inner ring needs to be welded in straight and without any pin holes in the weld. The inner ring is effectively laminating or strengthening the rim - anything you do to bend it would have rooted the original rim anyway. In all the years we've sold weld in kits, I've only seen a couple of the outer rings bent beyond repair, again the rim was rooted anyway. Using high tensile bolts ( we use HT cap heads and nylocks) and 24 bolts per wheel stops the breakage issue and any leaks between the bolts.
It's not uncommon to sikaflex or silastic the tyre to the rim on both sides ( your friendly tyre guy wont be so friendly anymore)

Internals are a good thing- minimal mods to the wheel, seals both sides and will recover from really big hits. There harder to fit on smaller tyres, but once fitted they're pretty well maintanence free. They'll actually make it EASIER to swap a tyre in the field than a normal tubeless setup. the beadlock makes it easy to set the the bead.

As far as balance goes, it's a big call- the tyres will need to be able to be balanced, the rims straight and true, the beadlock fitted properly and all assembled well. If you start with the thinest, nastiest malaysian rims you can get for $48 each, do everyone a favour and put them on a balancer without beadlocks or tyres- you'll be less likely to scream blue murder when those beadlocked bias ply swampers wont balance.

[micks troll]

Just out of curiosity i have spoken to the department of transport and according to this topic. "any modification to a rim is illigal" so a hole drilled for a valve stem is illigal?

[landcrusier ute]

Just out of curiosity i have spoken to the department of transport and according to this topic. "any modification to a rim is illigal" so a hole drilled for a valve stem is illigal?
who cares mate look at half the 4wds out there i dont anybody cares

[Liam@bbm]

Technically, yes. Drilling a hole oin your is illegal. Yet to hear of anyone, anywhere having a problem though.

[Ryano]

If you get an approved rim repairer to drill the hole, the rim is legal.
According to the Staun Internal Beadlock Disclaimer they are for "Off Highway Use Only!"

Cheers,
Ryano