Diesel Contamination ?

[arcticwolf]

This is the start of what I hope to be some legal action by numbers. I have just been given the news by mazda that the $5,269.25 damage to a bt50 engine was from contaminatied fuel and is not covered under warranty. This engine has only done 3944 ks. What we need is numbers,dates ,exactfaults and costs to any make or model ,mostly with a common rail injection system. If the fuel is the problem then we need to target the fuel companies or is the common rail tolerances too fine for our fuel. please lets get the ball rolling as to my knowledge there are a lot with large repair bills and I have only been looking for 3 days.

[miyata610]

Could you elaborate on the damage, how the contaminated fuel caused the damage, and what was the contamination?

If Mazda are arguing this case then they must be able to answer these questions for you.

Have you contacted a solicitor or possibly one of the industry groups for advice?

You may need to have the damage assessed by an independent expert before letting Mazda do anything.

I am sure many people on this forum are keen to hear more.

Phil.

[oul053]

did u put bio diesel in it?? u will find the owners manual that u cannot use this 'fuel' in common rail diesels, if u did put that in good luck getting warrenty. if its just 'dirty' diesel take a sample and get it tested. the bio diesel will ruin injector pumps ( and injectors etc) in a few hundred kms if its not meant for that engine.

[mimmo_gsr]

What about Bio20, its sold by a reputable servo chain and has 20% bio and 80% dino diesel.

I too would like to know more about the damage as I have a Ranger.

Mimmo

[arcticwolf]

No I sadly do not have that much faith in bio diesel yet. I have got Mazda to send one of the injectors to South Coast diesel and the report came back as contamination of a unknown substance inside the injector. They have no intension of honouring the warranty on the vechile.After speaking to 2 diesel repair people this is a huge problem with engines with common rail injection. This is something that is not in the advertising .It would seem there are a lot of people out there with huge bills for repairs:cry: including me,so far we are at a stand off and a phone call to insurance company it is not classed as accidental damage.

[voids]

i always get into the habbit of keeping my recipts for fuel, 6 months ago at our servo somone didnt close up the undergroung tanks one night while checking the diesel level and rain water got into the tank, i think there was about a dozen vehicles with water in the diesel one rand rover had to have the injectors and injector pump replaced to my knolage, all at the servo's expence. my point is maybe not relevent in this scenario, but if you purchase diesel and it happens to damage your car because it was contaminated the seller of the fuel should be held accountable for not selling you and adaquate product.

[Rocky Road]

What about the fuel filters on the car itself? Surely some blame must lie there too.

I was once told by a diesel mechanic to fit extra filters on any common rail diesel, AND, as soon as they run out of warranty, to sell them! Looks like the warranty is not worth much either!
Any water in the fuel is a killer of common rails.

Really sorry to hear of your predicament.

[miyata610]

I still don't get this.

If it was a particulate contamination, then surely the filter is at least partly to blame and Mazda supplied the filter. Ditto water.

How much does an injector cost? The labour cost can't be huge if it's only injectors. Was there any other damage? Pumps? Sensors?

This doesn't fully make sense.

Is it April 1?

[arcticwolf]

No water was found in the tank or filter just sediment. That is my argument that the filter should block and stop the engine. investigation then finds no fuel change filter and go home and clean the tank and line s pre filter problem prevented. The vechile has only been filled about 6-7 times (3944ks) but all my reciepts are in the console and its at the dealer that wants $5269.25 to release it.They took 28 hours to find the problem and say they are being fair at only charging for 16 at $1440. This mechanic is supposed to be trained on bt50 engines. The fight has only just begun as I will be taking Mazda Aust to the ACCC, Phone conversation with them said that they have breached the trade practices act by selling and unmerchantable vechile. more to come :)

[fullmetaljacket]

I have got Mazda to send one of the injectors to South Coast diesel and the report came back as contamination of a unknown substance inside the injector.

sounds a bit suss to me, its the year 2007 there are not too many minerals etc that are as yet undiscovered.......did Mazda tell you it was an unknown substance or did you talk directly to South Coast Diesel....if not may be worth a shot incase Mazda are trying to pull one over

hope you get the matter resolved with as little coin out of your pocket as possable

[arcticwolf]

Yes I rang and got it straight from the horses mouth, by saying unknown they are covering their arse incase somone says it is dust and they say it is dirt.They will only put a finger on it after a fuel sample is tested by a lab

[miyata610]

I'm glad you plan to take action.

I hope you succeed... it sounds like you will.

Have you spoken to Mazda directly? It sounds like the dealer may be a little dodgy... how can it take 28 hours to find what should be a simple to diagnose problem? There are only three things a diesel needs to run.... air, compression and fuel. They would have checked the fuel pressure on the rail straight off, so that just leaves the injectors. Duh.

Try the Motor Traders Association, or similar trade body. I know they help people pursue dodgy repairers.

Also... $950 per injector seems a bit steep.

Good luck, and keep us all informed.

[steelo]

Try Fair Trading also, good luck!:D

[oul053]

28 hrs seems a bit rough but the price for an injector sounds about right, they are very expensive the new ones because of such high tolerances and its was probably those tolerances being to tight that the fuel system shat itself. do u know if the pre filter and fuel filters r blocked or full of crap? good luck with outcome.

[OM617isbest]

I've never come across bad diesel and I go through 200-300 litres a day in my truck and some of it goes in the car. Something wrong with mazda.

[arcticwolf]

I have got the bill down to $3586 and picked up my truck this afternoon after 14 days of lengthy phone calls etc. Now I have to concetrate on getting this all into court with the ACCC and fairtrading. It is for sure their mechanics don't have a clue about these engines.

[Marc 1]

I've never come across bad diesel and I go through 200-300 litres a day in my truck and some of it goes in the car. Something wrong with mazda.

Something must be wrong with the Nissan 4.2 diesel in the GQ utes too then. Crap fuel is a reality - father in law had to shell out $2.5k ish to westend diesel to rebuild the pump and injectors after getting a load of bad diesel about a year or so ago.

[Marc 1]

Arctic where did you get fuel? Was it at large servo's, independents? Same place everytime? Do you buy the cheapest you find? Do you stick to one brand?

[OM617isbest]

I don't know about anyone else but I get around a bit and fill up when I need to at the cheapest place. I put ATF in the tank sometimes as it contains zinc which is a good lubricant. About 300ml to 40l.

[arcticwolf]

I had only filled at 2 servo's one was the caltex/woollies at Nerang and the other was the freedom on brisbane road at helensvale on the Gold Coast. The freedom turns out to be a inderpendent with freedom signage ,but they are newish servo's. I don't fuel in Canungra as the tank are at least 40 yrs old.

[Marc 1]

I had only filled at 2 servo's one was the caltex/woollies at Nerang and the other was the freedom on brisbane road at helensvale on the Gold Coast. The freedom turns out to be a inderpendent with freedom signage ,but they are newish servo's. I don't fuel in Canungra as the tank are at least 40 yrs old.

Thanks for answering. I won't say what's on my mind, that can get you slapped.

[oul053]

fuel comes the same place they dont send shit stuff to independant servos cos then it will come back on the company that they use. u may find tho that u filled up when the tank had either just been filled up or was nearly empty so u got alot of sediment and shit in ur fuel. I have never and will never fill up when i see a fuel truck at or leaving a servo for this very reason.

[Marc 1]

fuel comes the same place they dont send shit stuff to independant servos cos then it will come back on the company that they use. u may find tho that u filled up when the tank had either just been filled up or was nearly empty so u got alot of sediment and shit in ur fuel. I have never and will never fill up when i see a fuel truck at or leaving a servo for this very reason.

Who says all the stuff that goes into a servo's tanks comes from the same refinery? Which government agency monitors the fuel from the refinery into the servo's tanks?

About 5 yrs ago there were bucketloads of servo's in Sydney cutting down their fuel with excise exempt stuff like kero, heating oils etc. The fuel they topped up the tanks with probably came from the same refinery though. You are naive to believe that the only stuff that some independent operators tanks comes from the refinery. I feel sorry for the independent operators that are doing the right thing, but there has been too much evidence of this fuel tampering for me to go anywhere else than a large company owned outlet.

[sudso]

i always get into the habbit of keeping my recipts for fuel, 6 months ago at our servo somone didnt close up the undergroung tanks one night while checking the diesel level and rain water got into the tank, i think there was about a dozen vehicles with water in the diesel one rand rover had to have the injectors and injector pump replaced to my knolage, all at the servo's expence. my point is maybe not relevent in this scenario, but if you purchase diesel and it happens to damage your car because it was contaminated the seller of the fuel should be held accountable for not selling you and adaquate product.If you can prove they sold you a faulty product which caused damage to your property you can sue the barstards for damages, they have product liabilty insurance.

[oul053]

there are only like 3 fuel refinery's we all get fuel from one of them, like sudso said u just have to prove that they sold u bad fuel. some places will put ethenol and kero in fuel but u just have to prove that they did it. u cant stop people from doing dogy stuff to make a bit more cash tho, u just gotta catch them.

[Marc 1]

there are only like 3 fuel refinery's we all get fuel from one of them, like sudso said u just have to prove that they sold u bad fuel. some places will put ethenol and kero in fuel but u just have to prove that they did it. u cant stop people from doing dogy stuff to make a bit more cash tho, u just gotta catch them.

Not just three, one of the major chains was importing shiploads of refined fuel from Singapore at a cheaper rate than they could get ex refinery here in Oz. I may have been better fuel than that produced locally. The point I'm making is that even if fuel only came from the 3 aussie refinery's there doesn't seem to be any rigourously enfored guarantee of quality at the bowser.

Most people use more than one petrol station, their vehicle's fuel tanks are not sealed with tamper proof seals in between each fill. Fuel station owners can (correctly) claim that their may have been sediment in the bottom of a tank and that you ran it dry etc. Seeing as your vehicle is virtually brand new you have a better case than most, but there's still a lot of 'wriggle room' for the servo owners to say "it wasn't me".

As I stated a while back, if you had a tamper proof sample that was signed and sealed at the servo it would force the servo's to ensure that the stuff they sell and the tanks they store it in were in tip top condition. Clearly someone has sold you fuel that has damaged your vehicle. That's as bogus as buggery, but clearly the servo owners think they can get away with it or they wouldn't be selling the rubbish (intentionally or otherwise).

[dragn88]

Arctic, make sure you get the injectors back and ask for the contamination they found. If you send it to the fuel company they will analyse for you. Its not uncommon for fuel companies to pay for these types of repairs. They don't advertise it but if a complaint is made and you can prove you bought the fuel from them they may pay to keep you quiet.

Find out who the servo's buy there diesel from and don't mention to them your alrady talking about it on a forum, this may go against you as they may think the damage is already done and they wont be keen to advertise that they payed.

Good luck

[arcticwolf]

My question is ? I wrote to the editor about this problem / fact that they drove one of these to the Alice and didn't pick up dirty fuel and to this date have no responce

[dragn88]

Arctic, i spoke to a mate during the week who reported fuel contamination to an(oil company) for another one of his mates, and they sent arround a courier to pick up a sample of the fuel. In this case the guy had to admit he had put the fuel into a jerry and thats where the contamination came from, but he was happy with the response from the company. Don't spose you have any of the fuel?

[arcticwolf]

yes I have about 250 ml and it came straight out of the pump into the bt50 so I have that . It is like mating elephants at the moment (A lot of noise but not a lot happening ) I am trying to get it covered by insurance and that seems to be taking forever. Just got phone call , fuel test results on their way .

[arcticwolf]

Well the fuel test results have come back from wear check lab in sydney and suprise /surprise they say there is no way that the fuel was the cause of the failure in the injectors. mazda was not too polite to me again and wanted the results faxed to them so their tech department could go through them.

[dragn88]

Well the fuel test results have come back from wear check lab in sydney and suprise /surprise they say there is no way that the fuel was the cause of the failure in the injectors. mazda was not too polite to me again and wanted the results faxed to them so their tech department could go through them.

Arctic,
At least they are not dismissing the results. The fact that they are looking at them is a possitive.
If you can get these guys talking to each other then hopefully it becomes an argument between their respective tech heads and you can just keep stoking the fire untill one pays up!

Well done for keeping on them, keep in mind that at the end of the day Mazda have suppliers who they have warranty arrangements with, they will put the pressure on the suppliers to pay for the parts out of "good will" and they will only have the labour to pay for. Make enough noise and you will win. Also whereever you can, get everything in writing! Some times they will pay just to avoid putting it on paper, if they do put it to paper then they can't change the story when it suits them.

I bet they already get a cold shiver when they know "Arctic Wolf" is on the phone.

[dirtygq]

last time i heard of bad fuel is when they were adding toluene(a industrial thinner) and also with bp fuel ruining injector pumps . Can anyone ellaborate at all ?

[arcticwolf]

Well mazda has dismissed the fuel report ,even though it was done by wear check lab in sydney so now I am going for the throat.

[fullmetaljacket]

into them!!......I assume that you have been without the vehicle in question (on road), take this into coincideration with reinbursement

[arcticwolf]

no I had to bite the bullet and pay mazda to get the truck back but they had it for two weeks to find the problem , that was bad enough

[reastwood]

Articwolf, what where the symptoms of injector failure? Did your engine just stop running suddenly or was there a progrssive lack of power or something else? I only ask as I have never had a CRDi diesel before and would like to be aware of any warning signs.

Rick.

[arcticwolf]

It started to be slower at starting and then it was blowing a lot of black smoke as if it was over fueled or starving for air . On the way to the dealer I stopped it and it would not restart and that was it.The drama I am having is like mating elephants, but I am not giving up

[Frosty13]

Re Arctic Wolf.
Crikey, I'm just hours away from ordering my first CR Diesel (Mazda BT50).
This is my first diesel in about 30 years. Hope they're as good as back then!
This is a great forum, so many people want to help. I've gleaned some good ideas from participants, thanks all.
All I can say Arctic Fox is, go get 'em. Good luck, mate. I await your next chapter in this prolonged saga.

:drink:

[Phil H]

Thanks guys, my BT50 is a mere 3000 k's old and this has been very interesting reading. It reminds me of a problem I had in my Soob Outback which took 2 years of denial by Subaru Australia before they admitted to the problem and fixed it! So, Arctic Wolf keep right on it and push hard.

[sp0radic]

The fuel contamination problem is a big worry for me, with the new engines. I was speaking to someone at West End diesel and he said that it has cost up $7000 to fix some 4WD's because of diesel contamination. It may be worth giving them a ring.

[arcticwolf]

It has been a long slow road with all the crossing the t's and dotting the I's . Took it to far trading and they said that it is a contract arrangment between mazda and I so it has to go before the court. Keep you posted

[bushytas]

hey something that no one has asked yet
when you got you 4wd back did you have to replace the fuel in the tank ?
if you havent dont you think it strange that they would let you out the door without replacing it?
cheers
Brendon

[arcticwolf]

They replaced it, but it had 1/2 tank when it went in and they charged $50 for fuel and I had to fill up at the first servo less than a k down the road. I got no answers where all my fuel was.

[Catchy]

Hi all,

Just wondering if any one heard how this all panned out?:confused:

Cheers

[Lucas Mill]

Dear arcticwolf,

We have a fleet of 5 2007-2008 Holden Rodeo's.

We currently have a veichle stuck in Gladstone QLD with a $13500 repair bill due to fuel contamination.

Holden and Caltex have both been called to no avail.

Today I have rang the ACCC. Unfortuntly they are unable to help individual cases. I then asked how many other complaints they have recieved in this nature, they can not provide this information. I then asked what number of people the would require to investigate this issue....again they can not provide me with criteria to investigate this.

Can you advise what your outcome with Mazda, Fuel Company and ACCC

Also, how many other people have had injector failure due to fuel contamination.

Best Regards

Matthew de Jager
Lucas Mill Pty Ltd