spring over diff [Archive] - Australian 4WD Action Online Forums - the 4WD, 4x4 and offroad truck community. Get the latest tips, news, reviews, images and video clips.

DEEV8

10-07-2007, 09:28 PM

absolutely (although illegal in QLD)

try going to these forums and using the search function. you will find alot of technical info.

Outer Limits 4x4 Board :: Index (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com)
Zukikrawlers - Powered by vBulletin (http://www.zukikrawlers.com/index.php)

this forum even has a "how to" section that you might be able to find some good info/pics in.

Zuwharrie.Com BBS - Index (http://bbs.zuwharrie.com/)

Other wise there are a alot of 4x4 companies making most of the bracketry that you need to weld on to make it all work. Try some of the australian custom 4x4 shops websites, such as Big Balls Offroad (http://www.bbmotorsports.com.au) etc

grimbo

11-07-2007, 09:22 AM

it is possible but as DEEV8 pointed out illegal in QLD. Also it is not a simple mod, there are alot of things like steering that also have to be modified as well.

Why do you thhink you need to do the mod?

We have guys in the Suzi club in Victoria running 36" tyres without having to go SPOA and they perform really well. I ran 34" Swampers with only a 2" lift and a 2" body lift. Mind you thhat is also illegal in QLD i Believe

Bazza_rips

11-07-2007, 10:42 AM

i'm pretty sure you are allowed 2" suspension and 2" body lift in queensland.

DEEV8

11-07-2007, 11:53 AM

i'm pretty sure you are allowed 2" suspension and 2" body lift in queensland.

yes my mate bought his suzuki with these mods done, it is running 31" tyres. It came with an engineers certificate for the 2" body lift.
However going by the book the 31" tyres are technically illegal. He has had no troubles though.

Going to significantly bigger tyre size (31"+) will require reductions in gearing, either ring & pinion in diff or lower gears for the transfer case, particularly when offroading. You will burn clutches otherwise. My mates on 31's has no gearing mods and does little low range work, but his clutch is on its way out (after a few years of use).

tonka_199

11-07-2007, 07:26 PM

tonka_199

11-07-2007, 07:29 PM

i'm pretty sure you are allowed 2" suspension and 2" body lift in queensland.

Year your right looks like i can't do it because i all ready got a 2'' lift in it

lump_a_charcoal

01-08-2007, 09:31 AM

Dunno if it was just speculation, but I thought I heard that swapping in Hilux diffs (which are sprung over as stock) was ok, as the main diff structure wasn't being modified... Just a thought...

grimbo

01-08-2007, 11:31 AM

not as simple as that as you are changing your track width, you have to change all your steering, you have to mod your brakes etc etc and I don't believe that would be legal or engineerable in QLD either.

GRPABT1

01-08-2007, 04:03 PM

grimbo

01-08-2007, 04:15 PM

I would steer clear of SPOA mate, from what I researched about SPOA it stuffs up your geometry of steering and suspension to much and requires more work than it's worth. If you need that kind of hight I would reccomend the Calmini kit that I was looking at because it is still supposed to drive normal and comes with everything.

Supposed is the big word here. Lifting anything 5" is going to need to have steering sorted out plus a few other things. Anything over a 2" lift requires a lot of things to be looked at. Things like driveline length, steering, brake lines maybe, castor, drive shaft angles

GRPABT1

02-08-2007, 07:05 AM

The thing is that the calmini kit comes with everything like drives shaft spacers, brake lines, drop pitman arm and the shackle reversal fixes some of the normally associated caster angles etc with big lifts. But like you said, "supposed". I can't confirm till I buy mine I guess.

It seems grimbo that you are a huge fan of the 2 inch body and 2 inch spring lift and nothing else is worth mentioning. How many of the other types of suspension have you personally tried?

grimbo

02-08-2007, 10:00 AM

Don't need to. Think about it. A 5" lift means the springs have to be very stiff to maintain the arch, add that to a light vehicle like a Sierra and you are just going to end up with a hrash ride and no flex. The longer and flatter the spring the better the ride and flex. Which is why we use OME 2" rear springs all round with the overload leaves removed. It gives a long, flatish soft spring which means comfort and flex. A 2" BL is easy to add and abit of grinding you end up with a nice low vehicle that can fit up to 36" tyres.

http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/grimbo/GrahamZook_417.sized.jpg
http://www.4wdlinks.com.au/albums/grimbo/aaq.sized.jpg

02-08-2007, 04:21 PM

It seems grimbo that you are a huge fan of the 2 inch body and 2 inch spring lift and nothing else is worth mentioning.

Alternatively some people just don't want to hear things unless it supports their view or desire.

The Calmini 5" kit doesn't have that great a reputation. Seriously consider what Grimbo has suggested and look at Old Man Emu with RUF(rears up front), some bumpstop spacers and a body lift. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. There are variations on the RUF but even the simple version makes a worthwhile difference.

GRPABT1

02-08-2007, 04:27 PM

I'm not going the 5 inch kit anymore anyway. I'm getting the 3.5 inch kit which only uses 1.5 inch lifted springs with the shackles relocation. Hence it will have softer flatter springs, thinking of taking a leaf out of the rears though as they have 2 overload leaves I think.

grimbo

02-08-2007, 04:33 PM

By shackle relocation what do you mean? You don't mean shackle reversal do you? If so have a bit of a rethink before you do get them because what this means is when you compress the springs like climbing a ledge you are causing the axle to move backwards potentially causing problems with firewall contact with the tyres and also shoving the drive shaft through the t/case if you hit hard enough

GRPABT1

02-08-2007, 05:03 PM

We will see.

bigzuk

11-09-2007, 07:42 PM

i have a SPOA drover and well i wouldnt have it any other way.
the conversion isnt that difficult if your mechanically minded and can source the parts cheaply enough.

i use the merc steering arm way. which is a bad thing according to some. but fine according to others. was just fine when my engineering bloke had a good look over things.

madmike400

30-10-2007, 08:49 PM

rustyzook

30-10-2007, 11:19 PM

ive been looking at the 5" lift but am keen on the 2" OME also looked at a SPOA! also grimbo Think about it. A 5" lift means the springs have to be very stiff to maintain the arch, add that to a light vehicle like a Sierra and you are just going to end up with a hrash ride and no flex.

not an attack but a few things sierras are a verry harsh ride anyway, yes 5" lift has a big arch but alot of the lift in the kit seams to be the shackles and from what i have seen they flex verry hard and no gard cutting needed witch is what i am after because i need to keep metal in my car as there isnt much left!

But Tonka_199 i would recomend the ome 2" as your in QLD where they limt you alot! i really feel sorry for every one there! but there are other things you can do, there are also more kits then just the OME lift, also some 2" extended shackles they work a treat for me with stock springs!

i do not mean to offend anyone and if i have im sorry, thats just my 2c.

et4wd

31-10-2007, 10:25 AM

I have done the SPOA on the missus Zook plus a 2 inch spring lift and it came out sweet!!!
It still handles like a zook on the road ( nice and zippy) and it has good flex and is stable off-road, she loves it and it get's the looks too!
We used a Snake racing kit and got my mate who is a enginner to give everything the once over before we welded it all together, has been like that for 2 years this Xmas!

Steve.

GRPABT1

31-10-2007, 05:24 PM

ive been looking at the 5" lift but am keen on the 2" OME also looked at a SPOA! also grimbo

not an attack but a few things sierras are a verry harsh ride anyway, yes 5" lift has a big arch but alot of the lift in the kit seams to be the shackles and from what i have seen they flex verry hard and no gard cutting needed witch is what i am after because i need to keep metal in my car as there isnt much left!

But Tonka_199 i would recomend the ome 2" as your in QLD where they limt you alot! i really feel sorry for every one there! but there are other things you can do, there are also more kits then just the OME lift, also some 2" extended shackles they work a treat for me with stock springs!

i do not mean to offend anyone and if i have im sorry, thats just my 2c.

Well I have had my 5inch calmini kit in for a couple of months and I love it. No need to change anything to fit the tyres I want. On road it is no different to stock besides some more body roll and that is to be expected specially with the sway bar removed. Off road it flexes a heap better than what it used to and quite nice on the bumps compared to before. And regarding the possible firewall rub and/or spearing the driveshaft through the transfer case it sure as hell hasn't happened yet and I have hit some big hills, big rock ledges and fast whoops without a problem.

tonka_199

31-10-2007, 09:04 PM

I going 2" lift with 2" extended shackles to fit a set of 31x10.50 but i want good wheel travel.

rustyzook

31-10-2007, 09:56 PM

i might have a better look into that 5" kit then sounds nice! there was a bloke on here showing me his duel tranny case who had the 5" lift it flexed nice!

tonka_199 i have 2" extended shakles with stock leafs and i run 30" muddies no probles at all a 2" cab lift might be in the lines for you as well tho! just to be big and safe lol

red_zook

31-10-2007, 10:22 PM

2 +2 is good...
SOA is good....
in my opinion...
SOA on lux diffs is nice and simple...
works well...
i rely dislike the calmini kits... the arch in the springs is ghey, they dont flex...
shore big micks do.. but he has 36's on each end of his diffs!!

i have either tried or been in zooks with most set ups...
keep it simple!!

2inch bl and 2inch springs will give u a nice low cog (center of gravity)
witch overall is more important than looking bling

This is my old zook...
DAM TALL i know... but that was soa on lux's with a boddy lift.. if i had my time again i would rip the BL out!
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/PSI713/muddyflex34s.jpg
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j139/PSI713/gueswhoison34s.jpg

lump_a_charcoal

01-11-2007, 04:49 PM

Red Zooks are the best!

red_zook

13-11-2007, 05:17 PM

Red Zooks are the best!

hehehe
except my new one is black...

GRPABT1

13-11-2007, 06:28 PM

2 +2 is good...
SOA is good....
in my opinion...
SOA on lux diffs is nice and simple...
works well...
i rely dislike the calmini kits... the arch in the springs is ghey, they dont flex...
shore big micks do.. but he has 36's on each end of his diffs!!

i have either tried or been in zooks with most set ups...
keep it simple!!

2inch bl and 2inch springs will give u a nice low cog (center of gravity)
witch overall is more important than looking bling

This is my old zook...
DAM TALL i know... but that was soa on lux's with a boddy lift.. if i had my time again i would rip the BL out!

Swapping axles is more than just a bolt in lift though, and my calmini kit flexes as goot as your first pic with 235/75/15's on it and the wheel sits further in the well. I plan on 33's, the reality is if you only want 31's or smaller there is no point in going a 5 inch calmini kit anyway so really it is to suit big tyres, like big micks.

red_zook

13-11-2007, 08:23 PM

Swapping axles is more than just a bolt in lift though, and my calmini kit flexes as goot as your first pic with 235/75/15's on it and the wheel sits further in the well. I plan on 33's, the reality is if you only want 31's or smaller there is no point in going a 5 inch calmini kit anyway so really it is to suit big tyres, like big micks.

not calling your a lier...
BUT the calmini kit does not flex.. basically not at all... i have scene a few rigs with it...
UNLESS they have MASSIVE offseted rims and massive tires...
and a lux diffs swap is pretty much bolt in lift i u know what you are doing...
simple as pie!
litrlay the foot is a bolt in!!
ALSO lux diffs and SOA will masivle lower your center of gravity comparison to callmini, as it only uses little zook diffs..

Phil

GRPABT1

13-11-2007, 10:09 PM

not calling your a lier...
BUT the calmini kit does not flex.. basically not at all... i have scene a few rigs with it...
UNLESS they have MASSIVE offseted rims and massive tires...
and a lux diffs swap is pretty much bolt in lift i u know what you are doing...
simple as pie!
litrlay the foot is a bolt in!!
ALSO lux diffs and SOA will masivle lower your center of gravity comparison to callmini, as it only uses little zook diffs..

Phil

I think the bad rep of the Calmini kit comes from the fact they advertise it with the "heavy duty" springs. I got the "light duty" springs with mine, less leaves and hence more flexy. I don't dount the heavy duty ones would suck as I could probably still take a leaf out of mine but no need as it's my daily. And also like most calmini stuff (as found out in the mag with the D40 Navara kit) it is over estimated so the 5" kit is really like 4" and will sag everntually with the light duty springs. I would love an axle swap but it's just more money.

red_zook

14-11-2007, 10:19 AM

I think the bad rep of the Calmini kit comes from the fact they advertise it with the "heavy duty" springs. I got the "light duty" springs with mine, less leaves and hence more flexy. I don't dount the heavy duty ones would suck as I could probably still take a leaf out of mine but no need as it's my daily. And also like most calmini stuff (as found out in the mag with the D40 Navara kit) it is over estimated so the 5" kit is really like 4" and will sag everntually with the light duty springs. I would love an axle swap but it's just more money.

NOT relly...
considering the callmini kit is well over a grand..
and i payed $400 for a whole lux, taxed the diffs and sold the rest for $200...
then move rear mounts and shorten tailshaft (if you had to get some one to do it) lets say $350
break lines $50
steering.. i am using cross over so just another arm welded on and a new top arm $250?

i know it works out cheaper, as my mate did callmini in his at the same time as i did soa in my last one...

MUD-PIG

14-11-2007, 05:53 PM

Basically Snakeracing Kit does most of the stuff that is needed for SOA. This is what you need to do the swap basically then you would also need to get it engineered in your state....

4 x spring perches
2 x tailshaft spacers
1 x Hi steer knuckle, 1 x "Rock Rod" 2 x jam nuts, 2 x tie rod ends.
Extended braided brake lines.

Snake racing sells as a kit $1350.00 ?

Or you could source the stuff your self and make the spring perches either way it wouldn't end up much cheaper than that, plus you then need the perches welded to your diffs.

As a comparison of the two in terms of Flex SPOA and standard setup, my Sierra with SPOA axle and elleptic rear scores the same on a RTI ramp as my mates who has a 2" Dakar springs and clmax shackles on the rear.

So if you want flex it doesnt make much difference, I would say the only advantage I have with SPOA is a slightly better approach angle at the front.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l216/MUD-PIGSIERRA/RTIRampday128.jpg

OOK_TRUCK22

14-11-2007, 07:45 PM

GRPABT1

14-11-2007, 08:17 PM

What would be the best way to go about getting 33" tyres under my sierra. I have 2in OME suspension and will be getting a 2" body lift shortly. Will this be adequate without fouling guards but still give reasonable flex?

You will still foul the gaurds. That said you already have the OME setup and planning the body lift so I would just go to town on the gaurds and fit some bushwacker style flares.

lump_a_charcoal

14-11-2007, 08:22 PM

Got pics of the eliptical rear springs mudpig?

GRPABT1

14-11-2007, 08:23 PM

NOT relly...
considering the callmini kit is well over a grand..
and i payed $400 for a whole lux, taxed the diffs and sold the rest for $200...
then move rear mounts and shorten tailshaft (if you had to get some one to do it) lets say $350
break lines $50
steering.. i am using cross over so just another arm welded on and a new top arm $250?

i know it works out cheaper, as my mate did callmini in his at the same time as i did soa in my last one...

Yeah I suppose it can be done. But for people like me without the necessary tools it is alot easier to do bolt in kits. I would have done RUF otherwise but it's my cheap bang up car, and I wanted something I could do without paying labour as it is dear as poisen up here and nobody knows WTF they are doing.

At the end of the day it's whatever suits the person in the particular application. I just think some things like Calmini kits and drop shackles etc are overlooked because of bad reps from shoddy past history when they both in fact can be used very effectively.

MUD-PIG

14-11-2007, 08:38 PM

Got pics of the eliptical rear springs mudpig?

This probably the best pic I got at them moment as in seeing it working, mudflap blocks out where you can see the spring resting on the chassis when not in use, I have two pins that I put in for normal road driving to lock it in when not needed..... Im currently in process of remaking rear traction bar and transfer case mounts so Ill get some more once Im done.
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l216/MUD-PIGSIERRA/RTI004.jpg

OOK_TRUCK22

15-11-2007, 10:03 AM

so if i go with the flares i should be able to get them to fit

grimbo

15-11-2007, 10:49 AM

no adding flares wont help tyres fit, they help keeping them covered.

OOK_TRUCK22

15-11-2007, 10:59 AM

Well how much lift will i need to get them to fit?

grimbo

15-11-2007, 11:17 AM

what you have is fine but what size tyre ie 33 x 10.50 on an offset rim should fit. What state are you in by the way? You will also have to change your gearing to compensate for the big change in tyre size

Rogue Patrol

15-11-2007, 11:43 AM

Adding 'normal' flares will only cover th tyres, but if u use BIG flares like B'wacker cut outs or what look to be factory Jeep ones on Mudpig u can cut ur wheelarches out and give th tyres more room.

OOK_TRUCK22

15-11-2007, 12:31 PM

I live in Tassie, I was going to change the gearing anyway. I want to run 15x8 rock crawler rims with 33x12.5 Mickey Thompson MTZ's

red_zook

15-11-2007, 03:15 PM

I live in Tassie, I was going to change the gearing anyway. I want to run 15x8 rock crawler rims with 33x10.5 Mickey Thompson MTZ's

smashed diffs here we come!!!!
where in tassie are you?

tasmq

15-11-2007, 04:40 PM

The reoccuring theme here is that everything is illegal in QLD, I am suprised that they haven't mede breathing illegal yet or is that coming too?

grimbo

15-11-2007, 04:45 PM

smashed diffs here we come!!!!
where in tassie are you?

why smashed diffs, we seem to be able to run up to 36" tyres on Sierra running gear in Victoria without too many dramas. I ran 34s for many years without any diff breakgaes or other breakages for that matter. I understand that on high traction surfaces like rock it is a concern but low traction stuff like mud or dirt it isn't a drama if driven smartly

MUD-PIG

15-11-2007, 05:32 PM

Agree with you there Grimbo, I think even low gearing and lockers helps because you dont end up with one wheel spinning then coming down on a rock and breaking internals. I had 33"s on my first zook but in the end went with 31"s easier to drive on.

Heres one I dug up when the 33"s were on my old soft top did okay but I still could do most things with 31"s...
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l216/MUD-PIGSIERRA/Misc032.jpg

GRPABT1

15-11-2007, 06:11 PM

I can't wait to get my 33's :D :D :D

rustyzook

21-11-2007, 05:42 PM

im trying to find some 6 stud roters and drums so i can "borrow" my bros 35's when i get a lift and a grinder HEHEHEHEHEHEHE but so far all i can find out is jap zook have 6 stud, not aussie zooks so good luck with that.

tonka_199

21-11-2007, 07:04 PM

there was a set of six stud diff on ebay for a zook

rustyzook

21-11-2007, 10:40 PM

yeah but i missed them :(

seen

31-03-2008, 08:16 PM

i hav 2inch king springs front n rear with the shocks that arb recomend for the lift in the front i hav no down travel n in the rear i hav about 50mm has any one else had this problem n wat shocks would fit in there with stock mounts bcoz i am takin the shocks back bcoz n swapin them

rustyzook

02-04-2008, 10:58 PM

commodore rears fit in the front and any eye-eye shocks fit the back eg: Hilux

grimbo

03-04-2008, 09:20 AM

not true not any eye to eye shock. They need to be the right length if they are too long you will bottom the shock out more thabn likley wrecking the shock, ripping shock mounts off as well. Seen are the shocks actually limiting the travel, one way to check is to to take them off and flex the car up and see if there is any more travel available. If there is it isn't as simple as just chucking a longer shock on. You need to make sure it is the right length

Zook_Fan

03-04-2008, 04:27 PM

wat sort of money is involved in 2 inch suspension and 2 inch body lifts?
Also in QLD is it illegal to get 2 inch extended shackles and 2 inch bowed springs?

grimbo

03-04-2008, 04:38 PM

illegal I believe but better for you to contact the authourities and find out for yourself

tonka_199

04-04-2008, 08:01 PM

seen

05-04-2008, 02:24 PM

well at the moment i hav my swaybar on at the momentso i hav very limited travel in the front to start with but i tock the bottom shock bolts of n it didnt go down any further they were at full down travel when i am jst driven around so it isnt really save

seen

05-04-2008, 07:47 PM

out of wat model hilux r they out of n if u can give me size of them it would be a great help to

YoungGun

16-04-2008, 11:07 AM

hey guys can anyone tell me the advantages of doing the RUF conversion?? any info would be apreciated

grimbo

16-04-2008, 11:48 AM

it changes the way the vehicle behaves. it becomes much more balanced with flex becoming alot more equal front to rear. It changes the wheelbase by lengthening it and by using a longer spring you get more flex. The Sierra has a very short wheelbase and anything that can increase the wheelbase increases the ride comfort.

YoungGun

16-04-2008, 01:12 PM

thanks grimbo as i am in the market for a sierre at the moment i am only looking to go as big as 31" tyres

grimbo

16-04-2008, 02:27 PM

being in QLD you wont be able to go to a 31" tyre and still be legal. Just a heads up

MWD_99GV

16-04-2008, 07:53 PM

i cant believe that, 31"s illegal, qld laws suck!!!

YoungGun

16-04-2008, 09:39 PM

thanks for that but hopefully it won't look to over the the top and won't get noticed

DEEV8

17-04-2008, 11:38 AM

it shouldnt, alot of sierra's running around with 31's. Just make sure youve got mudflaps and the tyres are covered with flares wide enough... SPOA will be cop bait in qld, nothing but..

I live in QLD, for me it its important to keep it SPUA. (sprung under). I also wanted to run 33" tyres as 1. I already had them, 2. More diff clearance, 3. lots of sidewall to flex. I can run these at real low pressures too on my rims under the light weight of the zuk without beadlocks (usually 8 psi, but have gone to 5 a few times). Havent rolled a tyre off yet, but i always carry a spare & jack & tools.
Scored a set of 6 stud drums/rotors so I got to keep the rims off my patrol too.

heres a pic
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/DEE501/P1050039.jpg

Bear in mind that theres a bit of screwing around. Ive played with my susupension a fair bit. My front diff is 35mm foward (RUF) & rear is 1" back (mq leaves in rear). They WILL scrub! I'm now running 1" wheel spacers to get the tyres of the leaf springs in the front at full lock.
For those interested in spua & fitting 33's, see the zuk thread in my sig. Will be updating tonight with a revised suspension/shackle setup for a better ride, simplicity, more clearance (no rub! :D) & the same (or *hopefully* more) travel/droop.

YoungGun

17-04-2008, 09:46 PM

thanks mate i will most likely do a ruf conversion and 1" body and extended shackles is that enough to clear 31"s?

DEEV8

17-04-2008, 10:28 PM

yes it should with a bit of hammering at the seams inside the wheel wells. 1 of my mates is running 2" lifted rear springs all round, with the back of the front springs moved back in the mounts (rears are longer than the fronts). He is running 2" body lift & 40mm extended shackles, 15x8's with -25mm offset & 31" mtz. they don't scrub anywhere. It works well, good combo.