Where does it say bodylift with airbags illegal?

[joshy]

i did a search but didnt come up with anything i was after. im just off the phone to an engineer, and he says hes never heard of a 2inch body lift being illegal with a drivers airbag, but everytime someone mentions on here lifting a car with an airbag all the replies are a no. just wondering if theres a site or something that says it is so i can show him. he says hed have no problem engineerin the str navara without it...but at $500-600, id rather not if i didnt have to. any help would be great. thanks in advance

Josh

[grimbo]

depends on what state you live in as the rules differ from state to state

[TazMAV]

depends on what state you live in as the rules differ from state to state
From what I've seen Grimbo it differs from office to office and from walloper to wanker, sorry I mean walloper but here in Tassie they are one and the same anyway

[joshy]

im in NSW

[joshy]

the engineer got back to me today, he says he cant find find anything anywhere that says a 2inch body lift isnt allowed if you have airbags. when i first rang him i said even if theres a possibility i need a certificate im more then happy to get one...so hopefully he actualy checked it out cause it would have been worth his while. but yeah good news.

[TUFF IFS LUX]

ive just searched the VicRoads website and cannot find anything about that either. I too have heard every man and their dog say that you cannot fit a body lift with a vehicle with airbags, even fourby workshops, thou theres nothing to support this in any traffic regulations in black and white.

anybody else know any different?

[babylux]

As far as Iam aware you cant do it because it stuffs with the air bag sensors. And it is illegel to remove the fuse to disengage them for a car that has them fitted (but hey its illegel to have 33's on a lux to:( ). Well thats what I thought anyway.

[TUFF IFS LUX]

If say for example you put a 2" bodylift in, why cant you just raise the sensors where they sit on the chassis with 2" spacers accordingly?

wouldnt that make sense?

[RoddQLD]

Your bumper or bullbar position doesn't change with a body lift, so if the sensors are attached to the chassis then I can't see why they would need to be changed.

I think that the designers would be more concerned if you changed the design of their system (ie moving the sensors), or put the system at risk of failure (damage, etc).

[joshy]

so you think lifting the bullbar 2 inches 2 match the body lift will stuff around with the sensors?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

You need to look a bit further than just the 'Rules'! There are 'Regulations' referring to the Rules, and Interpretations, Instructions for implementation, the various State and Federal Enabling Legislation, the Legislative Instruments, publications, interpretations, variations, Codes of Practice, Standards, Standards Info Sheets, etc and a whole lot more!

Things like ADR's (Rules) get supported by enabling Legislation, varied by each State's own Legislation (or variances), the Legislative Instrument tells you how to read it, the Regulations tell you how and why and who by it's gonna be applied, the Codes of Practice tell you exactly what you can and can't do; and it goes on (and on, and on, and on, ....) So without being able to recall exactly in all that where the ruling,or interpretation of the ruling, or instruction on how to apply the ruling etc can be found (I didn't keep that one in a Favourites Folder!) the easiest way for you to resolve this to your satisfaction is to do what you've already started on!

Talk to the Engineer, make all those enquiries, then take the info that you've acquired under the Engineers' guidance down to your local Registration/Approval Authority! You need to make sure that regardless of what the Engineer endorses or believes from their take on all the rules, regs, etc, that the Approval Authority will allow you to get it registered afterwards! And don't forget that there are special rules regarding the Air Bag systems re working on them, de-commissioning, re-commissioning etc; you might need to find someone with a special licence to do that! And even when you've got the vehicle Engineered, Modification Approved, Registered, etc, you've gotta get it insured too!! And that might put a kybosh on the whole thing as well, 'cos if the ins company isn't convinced that the air bags will work the way they were designed and tested, then your gonna be up the creek without a paddle; WAAAAYY up the creek!!

So while I can't help with the exact reference, I'm pretty sure that in that mess of rules and regulations, legislation and guidelines, there is a reason that AirBag equipped vehicles aren't the best candidates for Body Lifts! And don't forget that even if there is nothing specific to stop you making any changes, most States 'Enabling Legislation' leave's a neat little handle for all those special circumstances they miss; you know, something like,

"Any vehicle that does not comply with the Design Rules as described here-in, and interpreted in accordance with XYZnnnnn dated the 23rd instance of Gerundifnuckles, or does not have affixed to its Doosy whatsit a Compliance Plate designed in accordance with the other whoosi doodah, or does not specifically match the as designed production model and destructive testing results provided by GMH to the Registration Authority on ddmmyyyy; will be deemed to be at variance with these Regulations and will therefore the non-complying vehicle will not be considered fit for Registration and the operator may be subject to the full force of the 'Imissedthatinthefineprint' legislation calling the immediate slapping of the left wrist with a wet tram ticket and paying bucket loads of money to the fun police!"

You know the stuff I mean, I'm sure!

Enjoy the search!

[joshy]

if left the airbag in and did the bodylift, do u think the average mechanic is going to know wether or not its illegal to be registered?, if no1 can seem to find and notion of it being that way then i doubt they would. i do agree with the insurance though, have to ring up and find out what they rekn. i dont understand how a suspension lift can be legal with airbags but a bodylift "isnt"?

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

..... i dont understand how a suspension lift can be legal with airbags but a bodylift "isnt"?

'Cos the suspension lift doesn't change the specified & designed relationship between the body and the chassis; ie, relative to each other, no matter what you do to the suspension the body and chassis are still in the same position regarding each other!

It's only 'cos the body lift changes this relationship that the bodylift legality is called into question. You (and most Engineers with only limited timeframes to devote to the problem) cannot guarantee that all the air bag triggering systems that rely on complex calculations will set the air baf off when they should once the lift has been done! That's because those triggers are based on the complex calculations and algorithms to ensure that the airbag ONLY discharges when that algorithm says go! Vary one of the most significant features in the range of variables, and you've set them all way out of the acceptable range, and no-one can say WHEN they'll go off now!

Leave it with the Engineer for long enough, and he'll sort out a new set of figures for you, but then you'd hafta pay for his time (a couple of weeks), AND for the total destruction crash tests required to verify that the calcs will work the way they should! I think last time I looked, it was 3 total destruction tests (you hafta supply the vehicles AND pay for the tests; and they KEEP the wrecks too!) So it was all this stuff that resulted in a decision not to allow bodylifts on Airbag equipped vehicles!

[joshy]

but if its that simple, then why not just say straight out bodylifts with airbags are not legal?...spose it is the government were talking about tho.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

You keep on answering your own questions!

It's a bureaucratic organisation that lives for only ONE reason!! To make life so confusing for the rest of us that we HAVE to have them to interpret the rules and regulations!! If it was easy, we'd be able to do it ourselves!

[BLU-125]

In the "Proposed" National Code of Light Vehicle Modification" that was on the DOTARS website a couple of years ago, it said that body lifts couldn't be certified with SRS Airbags, but the Code that is now published makes no mention of this. BTW the only mention of body lifts that I could find with a quick scan is under "Suspension & Steering".

National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification (NCOP) (http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safety/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx)

[joshy]

just read the body lift part of that document, and yeah no mention of airbags.although it does have all the crap at the top that says u gota go case by case doesnt apply for all vehichles...blah blah blah

[HDJ105]

Does your engineer know you are talking about SRS, i.e. suplementary restrain systems airbags, rather than suspension airbags or airsprings? :confused:

[HDJ105]

If say for example you put a 2" bodylift in, why cant you just raise the sensors where they sit on the chassis with 2" spacers accordingly?

wouldnt that make sense?

The location of sensors varies between manufacturers and models. My sensors are either side of the radiator, i.e. on the body not the chassis.

[DJR96]

Well, if I were you, I'd find exactly where the sensor/s are for the airbags. Generally, they should be somewhere around the firewall, maybe on the inside. Afterall, they're sensing the severity of an impact to the passenger compartment. It won't care how damaged the front of a vehicle gets, it's there to look after the occupants. Maybe there is another sensor on the chassis. In a collision it will trigger more easily because the impact shock is greater on the solid frame of the chassis, but not release airbag alone, only a pre-arming perhaps and then go off if the main sensor is triggered as well.

Regardless, leave all the sensors exactly where they are, that's the way it has been designed and tested.

A body lift is not changing the integrity of the passenger compartment. Or the way the front crumples in a collision.

Like anything, do it properly with commercially available spacers/kits with grade 8.8 bolts etc. There will be more scrutiny on them anyway.

Also, do you really need the body lift? Can you trim the guards, if that's what's fouling?

[joshy]

yeah the engineer knows im not talkin bout suspension airbags.

doin the body lift cause i have access to the materials and can make it myself, cant afford a suspension lift at the moment and sick of hitting the body and getting caught on the side steps on even small rocks.

[DJR96]

You might as well just get some lift blocks and U-bolts for the back and wind up the torsion bars on the front for the time being.

Body lifts should only be a last resort fix for tyre clearance issues.

[joshy]

yeah ive already done that

[nilla60]

I have a modern vehicle and was wondering what sort of engineers certificate I'd need to move the radio dial from 106.3 FM to 101.5 FM...

This post brough to you by the ADRs of 2015

[joshy]

I have a modern vehicle and was wondering what sort of engineers certificate I'd need to move the radio dial from 106.3 FM to 101.5 FM...

This post brough to you by the ADRs of 2015

haha it seems to be getting that way

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I have a modern vehicle and was wondering what sort of engineers certificate I'd need to move the radio dial from 106.3 FM to 101.5 FM...

This post brough to you by the ADRs of 2015

You ain't NEVER getting a Mod Plate for THAT! :cry:

[stuartd]

Joshy,

Have you tried talking to the local fun police with regards to this issue. I work for a rather large transport company and we are always having to fine tune things to comply with state regulations. I have just recently completed a project with the NSW RTA. By involving them in the project I was able to stream line other older regulations.

My point is, if you involve them prior to the build then you are puting some of the responsability back on them (if only a very small amount). These guy's are normally very helpful as long as you honest and up front with them.

Stuartd

[joshy]

is there a department or something inside the rta i should be trying to contact?, i get this feeling if i just ring or go to a branch ill end up on hold for hours before getting put on to sum1 who has no idea what there talking about so ill then get transfered back and forward..

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

You don't seriously think that by ringing anyone in the RTA you'll get an informed and correct answer?? It doesn't WORK that way!!

The role of bureaucracies is to leave you on hold for hours before handing you off to at least 3 successive departments who have absolutely nothing to do with your specific problem until finally putting you on to someone who obvioulsy knows absolutely nothing about what you are asking about but is prepared to go out on a limb and give you a definite NEGATIVE answer!! That should leave you with absolutely no recourse except going direct to the Minister (the Parliamentry type) and appealing, or calling your minister (the Churchey type!) and praying!

Probly better off writing and then waiting for the duration that'll seem like forever as they do with your letter what would otherwise be you on hold on the phone!

[joshy]

i sent them an email...maybe a month ago, still waiting...useless

[joshy]

i emailed the insurance company and they got back to me suprisingly quick. as long as its legal(which i dont know yet because im still waiting for the rta to email me back, emailed them twice now) they have no problem covering it....although it might add to the premium/excess crap. 1 step closer i guess.

[TUFF IFS LUX]

keep at 'em mate, I'd love to know what the result will be. hopefully its positive coz I wouldnt mind giving my airbag equipped hilux a bodylift in the future.

You could do the whole scene a big benefit if you succeed with this mate.

[Marc 1]

i emailed the insurance company and they got back to me suprisingly quick. as long as its legal(which i dont know yet because im still waiting for the rta to email me back, emailed them twice now) they have no problem covering it....although it might add to the premium/excess crap. 1 step closer i guess.

I think they are called the technical branch (sound's like a subdepartment of Scotland Yard). Father in law got the answers he was seeking on permissable overhang behind the rear axle of the camper he's buying easily from them. They are the high priests of mods in the church of RTA. Good Luck.

[joshy]

Thanks Marc, ill have a go at getting onto them in the next couple of days.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Ever get any response?

[TUFF IFS LUX]

Ive inquired and mentioned this to a bloke on the newhilux.net forum and he runs a company called "monster rides" that do up vehicles.

I told him about the new triton one of the members on here has that has a 2" lift and 2" bodylift running 35's, and he contacted that Triton guys engineer and basically when he got back to me said that you CAN bodylift a new triton or a new navara with airbags because they only have one sensor on the body of the vehicle and not the chassis rail, so lifting the body off the chassis wouldnt affect it.

Supposedly he was told that you couldnt do it to a new hilux because they also have a sensor on the steering column and you have to modify the steering column for the bodylift so they wouldnt pass it on that.

Ive checked the workshop manuals and my own vehicle and the new hilux's dont have a sensor on the steering column, so I dont know what he was talking about, they just have two on either side of the radiator on the body.

So theoretically you should be able to do this aswell.

Good luck trying to find an engineer and explaining this to him to make him sign it off for you.

Then again if your running 35's you illegal anyway, so what difference would it make?

[BMS]

Most things are illegal in this country now you should see the crap you gotta
go through to just put some diff seats in.
They want you to answer all the questions whether it's relevant or not on
everything like,
Will the suspension be modified , Raised or Lowered , so if you tick NO
cause it isn't atm, what happens down the track if I put say king springs in to
lift it to get my ride height back due to the bull bar.
Could they if an accident happens say you signed a statement saying you
didn't have raised springs so your insurance is gone.?
They ask about tyres, rims and you name it.
It's very confusing and I'm only doing seats so why don't they just ask questions
pertaining to that and not everything else as well ? End of rant !!

bms

[flexytj]

Les Richmond Automotive P/L (http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/336.html)

i found this a while ago

[Mick.]

The location of sensors varies between manufacturers and models. My sensors are either side of the radiator, i.e. on the body not the chassis.X2 Some are also under the dash in some cars,4wds etc. So it would depend on the 4wd.

Myself personly I wouldn't stuff with a 4wd that has airbags for a couple of reasons. One being I wouldn't want to have a serious acident and have the airbags not go off and kill someone and the other is I wouldn't want the airbag going off for no reason because I tampered with them.

I'm pretty sure they all run off vibration (heavy impact) which sets them off so if your moving the body it would obvously affect the sencers to some extent.

Cheers Mick.

[ed.]

Why don't you go direct and talk to the RTA tech department?
You can call them up and they will tell you on the spot if it's allowed.
You can then buzz them on the ADR that allows/disallows it.

[joshy]

i tried ringing the rta tech department. they wernt able to help me, said the engineer has to speak to his contact at the rta about it and asses it himself. so i emailed a couple of engineering places off the rta list but not one has replied, keep meaning to ring them but when i dont get home inside office hours its kinda hard. the airbag is only in the steering wheel so i dont have to worry bout being guilty for anyone in the passanger seat if i have an accident. and only 1 other person has driven my car more then 100metres since i got it 7 months ago and thatll stay that way. so anything i do is only goin to impact myself...and id actualy feel safer without the airbag, i just dont trust it, especialy when 4wding.

[Silver_STR]

Hi all, id also be very interested in how you go with the rta, as id like to get my str lifted aswell,...iv asked a few suspenion shops around here and they told me to check with rta aswell as they didnt know and havent done any. as most people are just modding older vechicals..

[joshy]

im getting a number of an engineer a mate is using, well see if hes going to be any help.

Silver STR, is that your navara in ur display?, what size tyres/lift you got on that?

[Silver_STR]

hey mate,,, nar thats what im hoping for eventually with mine,,its just a pic i found that would fit as my avatar thing...mine nothing like that heh

[sudso]

If your airbags are not standard but optional to your model you are legally allowed to disable or remove it.
And thats straight from Transport SA's website!
Do ya body lift and boo ya!

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Hey Susdo, I think that you have to be registered (or is that certified?) to work on the 'explosive' component of an air bag, so your post SHOULD say:


If your airbags are not standard but optional to your model you are legally allowed to get an authorised person to disable or remove it!
And thats straight from Transport SA's website!
Do ya body lift and boo ya!


Wouldn't want anyone to damage themselves or their car by touching the wrong thing and setting off the bang!! (Those bang!!s can hurt!) Leaving the bag itself and the bits attached directly too it well and truly alone is the only safe way, but if you want to disable it, find someone qualified!!

Cheers!

[sudso]

Good point Peter.

It says: (their words)
If a vehicle was required to meet ADR 69/ and it was originally fitted with an airbag that was optional equipment on that particular model or variant, the airbag need not be present, complete or operational provided the vehicle is fitted with all equipment (eg steering wheel, steering column, seat belts) that would have been fitted had the vehicle been originally manufactured without the airbag; i.e. the vehicle must be shown to still comply with the requirements of ADR 69/..

ADR69/.. is a design rule of minimum impact safety requirements for all vehicles manufactured after 1995.
Its basically saying the airbag can be removed, incomplete or non operational if the airbag was optional equipment for that vehicle.

cheers

[joshy]

if only they had it out there like that in nsw..i wonder how hard it would be to find an authorised person to remove it.

[Silver_STR]

Quick question> Was the 2006 airbag on the 2006 STR standard or an optional extra?

[Titch]

Truth be know we are all driving illegal cars i say the higher you go the more you see

[sudso]

if only they had it out there like that in nsw..i wonder how hard it would be to find an authorised person to remove it.
That was quoted from ADR 69 (Australian Design Rules 69) not NSW or SA rules etc.
Under ADR 69/.. if a vehicle manufactured after 1995 was fitted with airbags as an option, it still passed ADR 69/.. without the airbags.
In your instance doing a body lift with optional airbags still operational, would require an engineering cert. and I doubt you'd get one.
That ruling reads that if yours are optional fitment then you can legally have them removed or disabled which means your body lift may be approved.

Do you need a body lift for bigger tyres and would they be approved too? I've seen a Mickey Thompson promotional Navara with 35's (I think) I'm pretty sure from memory it doesn't have a body lift but a Calmini suspension kit.

[joshy]

Quick question> Was the 2006 airbag on the 2006 STR standard or an optional extra?


It came with all the 2006 str's as they were tryin to get rid of them all so got an upgrade of standard equipment. the 2003,4,5 of same shape and everything had the airbag as optional. So as far as i see it..the airbag on the 06 was just an optional thrown in.

[joshy]

That was quoted from ADR 69 (Australian Design Rules 69) not NSW or SA rules etc.
Under ADR 69/.. if a vehicle manufactured after 1995 was fitted with airbags as an option, it still passed ADR 69/.. without the airbags.
In your instance doing a body lift with optional airbags still operational, would require an engineering cert. and I doubt you'd get one.
That ruling reads that if yours are optional fitment then you can legally have them removed or disabled which means your body lift may be approved.

Do you need a body lift for bigger tyres and would they be approved too? I've seen a Mickey Thompson promotional Navara with 35's (I think) I'm pretty sure from memory it doesn't have a body lift but a Calmini suspension kit.

Thanks,ill try and find someone thats authorised to do it. I want the body lift for bigger tyres and for more clearance on the sills and stuff. Tyres are easier to swap back to legal then a bodylift.

[triton_mike]

Just a thought about this one. Have you considered driveline modifications rather than a body lift? Snake Racing make kits that lower your diff to correct the control arm angles.

As you would be aware when winding up torsion bars you are primarily limited by your bump stops and secondly by your control arm angles (wear on CV joints etc.). Due to this limit placed on IFS lifts, we look to options such as body lifts in order to fit larger tyres and improve ground clearnace of your body, but this is complicated by SRS airbags.

The kit produced by Snake Racing allows your suspension to maintain it's configuration while being spaced 2" downwards relative to your vehicle's body. This would give you the same nett result as a 2" body lift would it not?

Keen to hear other thoughts on this to check I am not off with the pixies....

[ERASER]

Just a thought about this one. Have you considered driveline modifications rather than a body lift? Snake Racing make kits that lower your diff to correct the control arm angles.

As you would be aware when winding up torsion bars you are primarily limited by your bump stops and secondly by your control arm angles (wear on CV joints etc.). Due to this limit placed on IFS lifts, we look to options such as body lifts in order to fit larger tyres and improve ground clearnace of your body, but this is complicated by SRS airbags.

The kit produced by Snake Racing allows your suspension to maintain it's configuration while being spaced 2" downwards relative to your vehicle's body. This would give you the same nett result as a 2" body lift would it not?

Keen to hear other thoughts on this to check I am not off with the pixies....
Nope all that kit does is lower your front diff housing which is attached to the chassie, to correct the angle of the cv's and give a bit more travel upwards in the suspension. Its not like a body lift were the body is unbolted off the chassie and bolted back on 2 inches higher. This kit though does give you a 2 inch suspension lift, which i think is the way to go. Personally ive never been a fan of body lifts. The extra shear force placed on the body bolts in the event of a head on will be 10 fold greater with a 2 inch body lift compared to not having one. Plus the extra stress placed on the body causes the body to crack after a while. If you only want it for bigger tyres cut/bash your guards and keep your cog low. as for the sills get some decent sliders made up with nothing to catch on the under neath and just slide over the bigger rocks.
As for the air bag side of things. Air bags are optional items fitted by manufactures to improve saftey. Most cars are NOT ADRed with air bags. So you can remove the air bags legally. When buying a new car you can have the dealer remove the airbags if you dont want it. I know a lot of utes get there passenger air bags removed from the dealers so that it enables them to have a baby capsule in the passenger seat.

[cac]

As for the air bag side of things. Air bags are optional items fitted by manufactures to improve saftey. Most cars are NOT ADRed with air bags. So you can remove the air bags legally. When buying a new car you can have the dealer remove the airbags if you dont want it. I know a lot of utes get there passenger air bags removed from the dealers so that it enables them to have a baby capsule in the passenger seat.

eraser....i have never heard this specifically.....and i think the best source we have is the ADR quote sudso posted above....

joshy....i know this is an old thread, but where did you get to with the body lift....did you find someone to approve it yet....or have you given up??

[sudso]

eraser....i have never heard this specifically.....and i think the best source we have is the ADR quote sudso posted above....

joshy....i know this is an old thread, but where did you get to with the body lift....did you find someone to approve it yet....or have you given up??
Yep airbags can only legally be removed if they are a factory option on the model and not factory standard on the model range according to that ADR.
ADR's go a lot by what is factory "standard" and what are "options".

[TUFF IFS LUX]

In regards to bodylifts and airbags, I have proven to an engineer that a bodylift does not affect the activation or deployment of airbags on the new hilux.

I have chased up paperwork from all over the world including TUV Certified Paperwork for Hilux and Triton bodylifts from Europe and the engineer, the first one that actually gave us the time to hear us out has been studying the paperwork now for a good 2 months.

hopefully he gets back to us soon so we can start bodylifting the new hilux's legally.

In regards to removing airbags....you'd be hard pressed to find any new vehicle sold these days with airbags as an option. They are almost always standard so they can meet the safety ratings.

its either in there or its not.

[cac]

In regards to removing airbags....you'd be hard pressed to find any new vehicle sold these days with airbags as an option. They are almost always standard so they can meet the safety ratings.

70 series landcruiser :)...well actually, they aren't an option....they aren't even available for it....

sorry...couldn't resist lol

[ERASER]

They are almost always standard so they can meet the safety ratings.

its either in there or its not.
If its standard across the whole model range then yes its more than likely part of the ADR of the car.
eg. if a base model 05 hilux 4x4 does not have a airbag, then the airbag would be a option across the whole range even though its probably standard fitment to a SR5. So what ever model 4wd you have go to the very basic/entry level model. If that model doesnt come standard with an airbag then the air bag is just a accessory across the rest of the range.

On the air bag issue a quick question, arent airbags supposed to be replaced after 10 years? I remember something about that years ago. If thats the case im sure theres a lot of illegal cars out there on the road atm.

[joshy]

Yeah i found an engineer that will sign off on it, i just havent had the spare cash to get it done. Goodluck with the engineer Tuff Lux

[Mick.]

Just because you have an engineers certificate that doesn't make the mod any more legal and if you have a prang the insurance company can still wipe your insurance.

Don't think for one minute just because the nice girl on the phone said they will happily insure you and take your money that your now covered as that means stuff all even with an engineers certificate. I had my Patrol fully engineered about 5 years ago when it was still a daily driver. It had no sway bars, no mud flaps, the exhaust was held on by cable ties (seriously:D) internal bead lockers which are all illegal. It was then blue slipped like this.

Knowing what I know now back then I wouldn't have even attempted to get it engineered like this but it still passed. I was also involved in an accident about 6 months later (not my fault) but i had coppers looking over my patrol just to see what mods I had done. The only thing they quizzed me on was the 2 valves on each wheel. When I told them what they where they thought they where a good idea and should be standard on all 4wds.

Moral to the story is most Police don't know most of the ADR rules or care and some Engineers will pass anything.:thumb:

If your not at fault in an accident you probably wont have any dramas but if your at fault, injure someone or worst kill someone then your head will be first on the chopping bloke then probably the engineer.

Cheers Mick.

[cammo79]

my insurance underwriter personly told me if i could get a body lift in my bt and it was legal they would insure it. their only quam was i could only go 4" in total ie 2"suspension lift 2" body lift.

All the bt50 sensors are located on the cab as well and im waiting for a qld engineer to get back to me.

if he says yes it will be done as fast superman putting his undies on ive got the price and everything.

[Mick.]

my insurance underwriter personly told me if i could get a body lift in my bt and it was legal they would insure it. their only quam was i could only go 4" in total ie 2"suspension lift 2" body lift.

All the bt50 sensors are located on the cab as well and im waiting for a qld engineer to get back to me.

if he says yes it will be done as fast superman putting his undies on ive got the price and everything.I be surprised if the Department of transport would allow that though. There 10 times worst then the RTA and no one has found anyone to approve them down here yet. I'd also be getting it in writing of your insurance company.

In the end it still means nothing though. If you crash your 4wd you can wave all the paper work you like in front of them but if they want to wipe the claim they will. They will just find something else. This goes for any mod really.

Cheers Mick.

[sudso]

Just wondering, where does the air come from that inflates the bag so quickly?
The gadget would be great for reseating popped beads :D

[MR MAC GU]

my insurance underwriter personly told me if i could get a body lift in my bt and it was legal they would insure it. their only quam was i could only go 4" in total ie 2"suspension lift 2" body lift.

All the bt50 sensors are located on the cab as well and im waiting for a qld engineer to get back to me.

if he says yes it will be done as fast superman putting his undies on ive got the price and everything.


In QLD You dont need an engineer to sign off on a 2" bodylift unless QLD Transport asks for it. You must register your intent with QLD Transport before fitting the body lift and only if they pass it can the bodylift be fitted. They dont even inspect the vehicle once it is done. Seems a bit backwards to me but this is what the told me late last year when i inquired but i never went through with it. Cheers.

[MR MAC GU]

Good point Peter.

It says: (their words)
If a vehicle was required to meet ADR 69/ and it was originally fitted with an airbag that was optional equipment on that particular model or variant, the airbag need not be present, complete or operational provided the vehicle is fitted with all equipment (eg steering wheel, steering column, seat belts) that would have been fitted had the vehicle been originally manufactured without the airbag; i.e. the vehicle must be shown to still comply with the requirements of ADR 69/..

ADR69/.. is a design rule of minimum impact safety requirements for all vehicles manufactured after 1995.
Its basically saying the airbag can be removed, incomplete or non operational if the airbag was optional equipment for that vehicle.

cheers

If your vehicle has been fitted with an airbag then your seat belts will have pre tensioners in them designed to work along with the airbags. Im pretty sure that if you remove or disable your airbag then you will have to replace your seat belts as they wont meet adr without the airbag fitted and in an operational state.
I may be wrong ,but im pretty sure im right???????????
Cheers

[Hoppy11]

My Hummer Replica has VX commodore seats in it, the seatbelt storks are attached to the seats and have the pre tensioner on them, I had to put one new one on as the seats came from a damaged car ( only one had gone off), the Hummer was licenced as a new vehicle and I was told by the authorities that it was fine to leave the seatbelt storks as they were as there was no wiring attached to them, The seat belt pretension is designed to go off when before the airbag does, funny thing was that both front airbags went off and only the passenger pre tensioner went off, drivers side was fine.

Hoppy

[stRanger]

Just wondering, where does the air come from that inflates the bag so quickly?
The gadget would be great for reseating popped beads :D

They have a small explosive charge built into the airbag this inflates the bag in less than 30 milli seconds (Faster than you can blink).

[Wombat1965]

....I wouldn't only worry about what the engineer thinks...make sure you check with the insurance companies as well to see what they allow. The last thing you need is to have an accident and then find that the sharks employed by the insurance mob find a little loophole that means they won't pay out. I know a woman who used to work at "a major insurer", and they used to go over cars with a fine tooth comb trying to find reasons not to pay out. One that sticks in my mind was a lambswool steering wheel cover..."reduces adequate control over steering", and they knocked back the claim, sticking the driver with trying to pay for the damage to both cars himself.

The last thing you need is to be standing up in court or wherever and answering the question "what makes you think you know more about suspension design than the manufacturer with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment and design behind them?"

Not the first time that's happened...:crazy:

[cac]

Just because you have an engineers certificate that doesn't make the mod any more legal and if you have a prang the insurance company can still wipe your insurance.


The last thing you need is to be standing up in court or wherever and answering the question "what makes you think you know more about suspension design than the manufacturer with hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment and design behind them?"

it does mean you don't have to answer this question though....it will be the engineer who has approved it who will be under the hammer....

[loppa]

Just reading this and I have a body lift on my frontera and that has airbags never had a problem with them but i was told that on my model they have deceleration sensor's, so that when you slow down in a very short amount of time they go off. Before i did the lift i looked everywhere for crush cans or sensors, but then i was told that it is different to other 4bys so i just did it anyway its the only way to fit bigger tyres.

[grimbo]

They have a small explosive charge built into the airbag this inflates the bag in less than 30 milli seconds (Faster than you can blink).

and a funny little side note to this. I used to be a signwriter and we used do all of a car manufacturers stuff for them. When they launched their new vehicle with passenger airbags to the media things went a little, well wrong. Because the official ones hadn't landed in Australia they had to "make" one up for the launch so they could remotely activate it for everyone to see. Somewhere along the way they overcharged it. When it went off with a very large bang it blew the dashboard off, the cover on the passenger side smashed the windscreen and richocheted into the back taking the head rest clean off.

We laughed but the manufacturer had to do a lot of explaining to the media. :D

[joshy]

haha thats gold...

[TUFF IFS LUX]

Almost over the line in regards to the bodylift with the engineer.

All documentation is technical data I have provided is satisfactory, only thing to do know is to provide the engineer with a couple of the blocks that will be used for stress testing and some sort of chemical composition report or something along those lines so he knows exactly what the material is that will be used. That high densitty "poly-what-da-f$%k".......

anyway.....atleast its moving along....even if it is slow.

[Mick.]

and a funny little side note to this. I used to be a signwriter and we used do all of a car manufacturers stuff for them. When they launched their new vehicle with passenger airbags to the media things went a little, well wrong. Because the official ones hadn't landed in Australia they had to "make" one up for the launch so they could remotely activate it for everyone to see. Somewhere along the way they overcharged it. When it went off with a very large bang it blew the dashboard off, the cover on the passenger side smashed the windscreen and richocheted into the back taking the head rest clean off.

We laughed but the manufacturer had to do a lot of explaining to the media. :DA lot of passenger airbags actually do blow the front screen out so you can only imagine how much they would hurt if they did smack you in the face at full noise.:cry:

Some of the new Lexus's we fix at work have up to 12 airbags (from memory). I'd hate to be in one if there was a malfunction and they all went off at once.:crazy:

Cheers mick.

[MQSWBSD33]

hey mate
just cover your own ass as long as you can still get insurance and it passes engineering you should be right, but by changing certain aspects of the vehicle the airbags may not work as intended, wouldnt be a bad idea to research where the sensors are and how that system works to not change anything with their deployment otherwise it could be a costly mistake Its almost like fitting a bullbar to a SRS car, as long as its the right one for the vehicle you should be right. But from a mechanics perspective as long as its legal in your state you should be right.

[Dave_STR]

Hey Josh, I noticed the other day at son of trials the mickey thompson D22 has a body lift and a airbag.

Next time you see the ute ask em who engineered it.

Dave.

[TUFF IFS LUX]

hey mate
just cover your own ass as long as you can still get insurance and it passes engineering you should be right, but by changing certain aspects of the vehicle the airbags may not work as intended, wouldnt be a bad idea to research where the sensors are and how that system works to not change anything with their deployment otherwise it could be a costly mistake Its almost like fitting a bullbar to a SRS car, as long as its the right one for the vehicle you should be right. But from a mechanics perspective as long as its legal in your state you should be right.

Ive done the research and accumalated the technical data and have gotten absolutely everything there is and all that you can possibly get in regards to airbag activation and deployment and when it works, how it works, what the failsafes are etc etc etc...I know em inside out now from researching this. And this is the reason why the engineer is almost over the line.....he's happy with the info I have provided him....just a waiting game now.

[joshy]

Hey Josh, I noticed the other day at son of trials the mickey thompson D22 has a body lift and a airbag.

Next time you see the ute ask em who engineered it.

Dave.

should see it again at tufftruck. You sure tho? last time i looked it had a custom front bar aswell. I thought it was a pre included airbag model.

[Dave_STR]

Steering wheel was the same as mine, couldn't get in to look more as it was locked.

Dave.