V8 Engine Conversion RA Rodeo

[Scabbard]

Lads

Links to my last thread on the eaton blower etc, I have been getting conflicting stories on the ability for this unit to fit my 3.5L V6. I am looking at other options and would appreciate any feedback on issues associated with a 5.0L Holden V8 conversion into the rodeo, who does them, What other mods will need to happen etc etc. Any experience with turbo fit to the existing donk would also be greatfully received.

Cheers

Scabbard

[Ducky103]

There were two ra Rodeos built for the australian safari a few years back and they were fitted with 5.7genIII V8s they were quite a wepon from what i can remember. I have also seen earlier TF series rodeos with the 5.0L holden V8 in them and they were 2wd versions.

[Bazza_rips]

please please please don't put the 5.0 in it. if your gonna go a v8 i'd be looking at a gen 3. why not look at other blowers??? i've seen a centifugal type blower on a rodeo and it had about 400 kw. this would probably be easier to fit up with out the need for a custom manifold.

[Redfox]

Lads

Links to my last thread on the eaton blower etc, I have been getting conflicting stories on the ability for this unit to fit my 3.5L V6. I am looking at other options and would appreciate any feedback on issues associated with a 5.0L Holden V8 conversion into the rodeo, who does them, What other mods will need to happen etc etc. Any experience with turbo fit to the existing donk would also be greatfully received.

Cheers

Scabbard

I don't think you could fit a 5.0 litre in an RA due to ADR emission rules. This engine would be too old as production ceased in 1999 and RA was made from 2003. Although it might be Ok with 100% LPG.

[Scabbard]

Lads

Further Info and a new approach. Spoke with my trusty Auto engineer and his advise was to keep it straight and narrow then ditch the idea of turbos and Blowers they are big bucks and will most likely get hit as non compliant with emission, ie richer mix. As I'm a bit older now 34 not 24, experience has shown that I might as well do it right. Bazza/Refox you are right on the money, Oldmate suggested a 5.7L Gen III was the way ahead, as it is designed to pump out 225KW and approx 400Nm as standard. Flip side is that is costs a bit more than the $8000 i had earmarked for the upgrade. Spoke to Holden a new 5.7 GIII will set me back $9,700, SIX speed manual $3,500 and Clutch another $800 and that is just parts. I could probably look at $20,000 for the job complete. Just attempting to convince wifey that Scabbard really needs to do this, but I have a cunning plan. I will be shopping around for better prices as those were quoted from Hunter Holden at Ryde and from expereience they charge like wounded bulls. The pipe work will likely cost me approx 2K. the guy there told me if I do this conversion then I wouldn't be the first, apparently there is already a Gen III 5.7 running around ryde as we speak. So One I know it will fit, and 2 I know it will be legal. Any other things I should consider?

[Scabbard]

Also any advise on a reputable engine conversion mechanic in Sydney? and how much would someone pay for the 3.5L V6 with 54K on the clock?

Scabbard

[Bazza_rips]

there is an old saying about engine coversions......

work out how much it you think it will cost........ and double it, then you might be getting close.

sorry, to be a downer but i have heard this many, many times from people who have been there.

I would be very suprised if you got it done for 20k.

i would still consider the blower, perhaps you should talk to a tuner regarding passing emissions testing? i think it would be much cheaper and go just as hard.

as for a ls1, i'd be looking at wrecekers, there's bound to be a few wrecked ones out there.

[boof]

As above engine conversions are never easy. Personally I would be going the blower. It is a bolt on mod also so its cheaper and easier. If you want all new parts then you will be looking at 20 at least to get it done. I fail to see how its harder to engineer a blower on the vehicles standard motor than to add one nearly twice its capacity and power. With the blower you could run with lower boost to start with if emissions etc are a problem. Then later when used to the power add more boost without the need for an engineer.

[Ducky103]

Look for a wrecked commmondore with the genIII in it then you will get the wiring loom and computer with it as well. Makes the conversion a bit easier and cheaper.

[fatboyvncalaisv]

please please please don't put the 5.0 in it. if your gonna go a v8 i'd be looking at a gen 3. why not look at other blowers??? i've seen a centifugal type blower on a rodeo and it had about 400 kw. this would probably be easier to fit up with out the need for a custom manifold.

is this just an opinion or do you have a real world reason for dissing the 5.0l?
consider the 5.0l is much cheaper, has much more bottom end useable torque and uses alot less fuel (not to mention the physical size of it) i would not even contemplate a gen3 in a 4x4.
they have 5 times the electronics on the gen3's, so add mud and water, much more risk of being stuck in the middle of nowhere.

PAT GARDNER V6 CONVERSIONS (http://www.v6conversions.com.au) in the central coast should have a full kit for the 5.0l or the 3.8 v6 conversions.

i would have expected a 4x4 forum would realise the big pile of crap that is the GEN3....
no low down torque, all revs.......not what i would want for a 4x4 motor.



ps, any blower can be fitted to any motor, just depends how much you want to be stuffed around.
an eaton on the 3.5 would kick ass.
all you would need is a custom manifold (any decent engineering shop could knock one up) and a fuel and ecu upgrade.

i had an M90 fitted to my old VN V6.....custom manifold, full engine freshen up, Haltec ECU, injectors, fuel pump, cam......to a total of $4000 tuned, not inc the blower cost, i already had that.
it made 385Nm at 1400rpm, and around 210kw at 2200rpm at 8psi
more than enough for street fun, and even more than more than enough for a 4x4....... considering it was on the 3.8

[Bazza_rips]

Without going into a pissing match..

The 5.0 is an old design motor. yes it was pretty good in it's day, but it's crap now compared to other motors out there. The GenIII is a much better design and willl more readily make power and use less fuel doing it.

While i realise that you probably can't leave this alone (your screen name is a bit of a giveaway there)this is all i have to say on on the subject of 5.0L vs GenIII.

I would still pursue the blower option an engine conversion would much harder to get engineered.

Also, he knows what's involved with fitting an eaton. the beauty of a centrifugal blower is that they don't need a custom manifold. it makes the whole fitment much easier and simpler.

[Scabbard]

Boys

Lastest Update

A bit of Background. The GEN III was strongly advised by my independent RTA Engineer as the 5.0L would have not passed engineering certificatification due to the year of construction (05) of my Rodeo and emission test requirements. I received two "confirmed" estimates/quotes Mannell Motors and Autotech Engineering that 20K would be what I would need to have a "new" (out of the box) LS1 GEN III 5.7(complete - Computer, Wiring Loom, Altenator, starter etc) , 6 speed manual transmission and clutch, plus fuel pump, adapter (custom) and exhaust to name the major bits. Whilst investigating further I stumbled across a guy here that has already put a CV8 Monaro GEN III into a 4 x2 Rodeo earlier this year. Unfortunately he was not able therefore to give me tips on the bolt-on transfer case for my push button 4x4. Anycase the estimated time off road was between 4-8 weeks which I cannot afford as it gets me to work ever day and moreso that the top of my wifes head flipper off when I told her the price. (I know whipped). Her argument was that instead of me thinking of my member, I should think about and will be "issued" enough funds to cover the following: Outback Draw system with Fridge mount, T-Max 11000lb 5.5hp winch (with plasma rope), a full recovery pack (snatch strap, D shackles, tree prototector etc), Canopy, 2 x Hand held UHF (5 Watters), Polyair Bellows with internal to cabin opertion with compressor etc. Staun tyre deflators, Garim streetpilot GPS. All in all not a bad loss. The boys at OP Lock Brookvale are still however giving me a quote for a custom turbo system for about $8K that I might still be able to slip through the keeper but my preference would still be the V8 for any engine mods through being realistic the turbo or blower my still be a better option. I'll update as things develop.

Cheers Scabbard

[Scabbard]

Fat boy

The link was usefull but clarifies my point in the cut fro thee website itself re my ability to put the 5L into an 05 Rodeo.


To comply with Australian emission laws the engine must have been manufactured the same year or later than the vehicle. The engine must also have all of the emission components connected, including the catalytic converter. The engine must also be run on unleaded fuel or LPG.

I hope this clears up why the 5L is not an option. Very impressed however on the output from the eaton M90. Cheers for your input.



Scabbard

[Bazza_rips]

saw a 250kw gen 3 engine at capalaba wreckers for $4000 (i think)

[Scabbard]

Thanks Bazza

Scabbard

[Oigle]

Hello Scabbard
Looks like you are past this now, but just in case, to fit the GenIII's in the Safari Rodeos, they did a fair bit of front bulkhead cutting and it left quite a small footwell. The standard RA transmission isn't up to the task either, so they used a Hollinger, plus they had different front and rear differentials amongst many other changes.
Turbo would be a much easier way to get power/torque increases on your 6VE1. If you aren't after really massive gains, try an aftermarket calibration, just remenber the weak link in a Rodeo drive train is the transmission.
Good Luck

[fatboyvncalaisv]

why not go the LS2 then?
they can be bought from the US for fairly good prices.

while my name may seem to "give it away" i am not a massive holden 5l fan.
i just think the GenIII is a piece of crap.
personal opinion.
your correct in saying the GenIII is a better design, sort of.
The VN-VS 304 had better heads, is much stronger, is cappable of much more boost (if your insane enough....lol)
the GenIII is an ok engine, in stock form, and pretty good when modified.
The LS2 is about 500 times better than both 5.0L and Gen III.

i don't mean to sound like i was lookin for an argument, i wasn't.
I was just talking from experience.

pro's...304.....Strong block, Lots of aftermarket, Best factory heads (especially for modifying) good fuel economy (typical 5l comodore manual gets between 9-11l/100km mixed normal driving), lots of bottom end torque, proven to handle 15-20psi in totally stock form, forever.

pro's....Gen III.... Larger capacity = more power in stock form, better ignition system, better A/F control, better all round EFI design, Mains are 6 bolt, Weight.


con's....304..... Heavy, lacks top end power in stock form, can have a lack of manners when modding, bannana monifold is restrictive.

con's....Gen III.... very poor bottom end performance (under 2500rpm) typical Gen III manual gets anywhere between 10-15l/100km depending on fuel (premium, brand) driving style etc. this is directly due to the torque problem. having to rev it up to get going everywhere effects fuel economy, oil consumption issue's, cost (compared to other engine's)


after all that, the 6.0l LS2 is the best of both worlds, better fuel economy, good low down grunt, and plenty of top end, been used in the US in almost identical form to ours, for a few years, so there getting cheaper.




and finally, remember not to be blinded by the big KW numbers of engine's.
eg my VN has around 350hp at the wheels, and does 11.6second quarters.
my mates VN has around 310hp at the wheels, and does 11.1's all day.
we both have fairly stock suspension (both have king springs, monroe gas shocks etc) both have similar aged cars, identical Auto's etc etc.

the secret.
mine is centrifugal blown (powerdyne) so lots of top end
his is PD blown (m112) and has max torque from 1200rpm to 4900rpm.

while the 5.0l's bottom end torque sort of makes up for the lack of boost at low revs on mine, he still kicks my ass everywhere, in every situation.

[Scabbard]

Oigle

Thanks mate. Yep if I was going further down this path the transmission was also being replaced.

Cheers

Scabbard

[fatboyvncalaisv]

also if your not scared by a $20,000 bill.....what about a hipo diesel, eg the 5.4 chev turbo diesel V8, there is a 4.7 twin turbo V6 from (i think) Chrysler.

check out a US 4x4 site and ask around.
one of the other apprentice's (now thats going back) put a 6.5l diesel V8 in his troopy.
he had no trouble pulling himself out of mud holes etc.....he he.