Can't decide on what Compact SUV to get.....

[crazym3]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks to everyone for helping me decide on what to get within the Hilux 4WD - manual Vs Auto thread however will all that information I got I have decided not to get the Hilux. Due to a couple of reasons...http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

1 - I will do the occasion sand, snow, gravel driving and not every week.
2 - its not really a car to drive in the city
3 - a bit too big for the misses to drive as well

so I have decide to go for a SUV with the ability to drive on snow, sand, gravel, tow a boat......etc...

I really like manual cars but if there is an Auto out there which can tow a boat up hill without lagging I will def consider.

The only manual's I have found are the compact SUV.

I have concluded to get disel, part-time 4WD or full-time 4WD which ever is better. Which I don't know. (pls advise)

It will be mostly use to drive to and from work, fishing on a regular basis, off roading during Xmas, Snow during winter and sand through the yr for fishing.

I've been looking at the 07 model: -
- Honda CR-V
- Maxda CX-7
- Subaru tribeca
- Ssangyong Rexon
- Nissan X-Trail
- Nissan Murano
- Mitsubishi outlander
- Toyota Hilux (last option)http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

After looking at those cars I am completely LOST!!!!!http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon4.gif

which is better for what I need? please HELP!!!!!http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

[grimbo]

I'd say none of those. What about a Grand Vitara as it at least gives you hi and low range and is a 4wd with good looks, more capabilty than the others and won't be too big for your wife.

[mudy]

for once i agree with grimbo.

but i cant really see your logic about the hi-lux.
there not that hard/big to drive everyday.

[crazym3]

Sorry guys, but I'm not really a fan of Suzuki thats why I didn't go look at it.

Correct if I'm wrong but I have checked the Nissan, Toyota and Mazda which will have hi and lo as well just in a different naming convention.

the others are 4x4 which is hi and lock which is low, well thats what I read.http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

Well I have had a test drive of the Hilux and loved it!!!! http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'll prob take the misses for a test drive too then.

[tempestv8]

Now that you've decided to buy a new vehicle, here are my thoughts:

- Honda CR-V - not a real four wheel drive as the center differential is too slow to turn the rear wheels when the front ones get stuck.


- Maxda CX-7 - too high fuel consumption for the petrol engine, got to keep the revs up high. Design looks great though!


- Subaru tribeca - new shape is coming to replace the very weird 1st release, so best to buy the new shape as they sold very few of the original one.


- Ssangyong Rexon - very poor resale value - you'll cry. Diesel motor is underpowered and smokes.


- Nissan X-Trail - basically a very sound package, but since new shape is coming you must bargain very very hard. Very reliable and fuel efficient petrol engine. No diesel option.


- Nissan Murano - know very little about these


- Mitsubishi outlander - great value, and rear seat now has that one button automatic release - very clever.


- Toyota Hilux (last option) - whilst resale may be good, it's poor value to buy new, as the equipment list is so basic for what you pay for.




So if I were in your situation, it would be a hard call between an Outlander and an X-Trail.

Lawrance

[tempestv8]

And definitely consider the Suzuki Vitara.

Like the X-Trail, it's got low range gears.

[grimbo]

I don't think any of the mentioned ones in the list have a true transfer case with high and low range like the Grand Vitara does.

[landcrusier ute]

i would go auto all you have to do it push two pedals easyier than manual

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Sorry guys, but I'm not really a fan of Suzuki thats why I didn't go look at it.

Correct if I'm wrong but I have checked the Nissan, Toyota and Mazda which will have hi and lo as well just in a different naming convention.

the others are 4x4 which is hi and lock which is low, well thats what I read.http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon11.gif

Well I have had a test drive of the Hilux and loved it!!!! http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'll prob take the misses for a test drive too then.

Not sure what you are getting at here! But I think that out of your list only the REXTON & the HILUX actually have a low range! (Anyone know for sure about the Murano?) All the others have a single ratio and centre diff, or the equivalent, that CAN be locked (maybe not the Honda). Basically they are constant 4WD vehicles, with NO LOW RANGE, and when the lock position is selected it will lock the centre diff, making it operate just like a part time 4WD in High Range ONLY!! While the lock position is not selected, the centre diff (or its equivalent) operates exactly like any other diff, it will ONLY drive the easiest wheel (or in this case end) to turn, the one with the least traction, then each of the cross axle diffs do the same, so for any given instant, the engine will only actually be driving the single wheel with the least traction. They do get a bit high tech in that they do have different systems and features that are designed to make that centre diff work at driiving both ends some of the time, while still allowing the differentiation which is essential to allow the car to drive on hard surfaces. The Honda has a different package that uses a 'pump' arrangement to force drive to the other end, some of the others have viscous couplings to increase the amount of drive that gets transferred across to the other end as slip or wheel spin increases, but all up, they are STILL only single range constant 4WD's. No Low Range, no gearing advantages and no real 'off road' or even soft sand capability!

The Rexton is not really in any of those classes, they are hard to explain, being a bit more than a poor town car but less than a poor country car, and not really good enough to be a good off-road car. I think that a Parts and Accessory place might find a use for one of them, reasonable to drive around town, but not good enough to get thrashed by the apprentice 9too embarrasing to be seen in!) Reasonable size load space, but not strong enough or good enough in the suspension to be able to take the ton of bricks the next door neighbour wants to borrow it for. Will take all the team to the pub on Friday afternoon, but won't attract attention on the way home after the pub shuts. Not even the Police want to be seen too near one! All up not a great car anywhere, but certainly better than some of the real dogs that have been seen in the past, ie not a 'burn rather than drive' car either!

So all up, I think that I too, am with Grimbo here; if you want to use your new vehicle on the beach, to tow a boat, to hit the snow, to drive on gravel roads, and still not be too big for the missus around town, go for the Grand Vitara!! All the others except the Hilux will have compromised ability to do those things. Enjoy

[Marc 1]

Pretty much as per Peter's advice except that the Honda, Mazda and Outlander aren't even constant 4 wheel drives, they are so called 'on demand' systems that will only shunt drive to the rear axle when the system senses slip at the front end. The Honda has apparently improved from earlier editions which were apparently pretty diabolical. Particularly on sand where the front wheels would start digging toward China before the rear wheels kick in, by which time it was probably too late as the heavy end had already bogged itself! The X Trail and Murano depending on the position of the selector will be locked 4x4, on demand 4x4 or 2wd. I'm pretty sure the only true constant 4x4 is the Subaru.

If you were considering a Subaru, I'd be more inclined to look at a Forester manual (Hi and Lo range albeit a pretty token effort) or auto (no dual range - see the thread on auto versus manual for advantages of an auto) If you were going auto try the XT - a WRX on stilts apparently great fun on the sand.

The Suzuki is really your best compromise in this situation.

[Disco98]

And definitely consider the Suzuki Vitara.

Like the X-Trail, it's got low range gears.

The X-Trail doesnt have low range does it?

Mum and dad have a Rav4 and love it, they dont take it to the beach or anything but they like it, and the new model is larger than the previous.

What about a Kluger? Larger than the smaller ones, no idea if it has low range never owned or driven one, but would be capable on the beach. Matt

[Marc 1]

The X-Trail doesnt have low range does it?

Mum and dad have a Rav4 and love it, they dont take it to the beach or anything but they like it, and the new model is larger than the previous.

What about a Kluger? Larger than the smaller ones, no idea if it has low range never owned or driven one, but would be capable on the beach. Matt

No, no low range, just the three positions on the selector switch. Locking the centre diff doesn't engage any low range as there isn't one. No low range in the Kluger, although at least it is constant 4x4 and outperformed the Adventra and Territory in one test I can remember.

[Disco98]

No, no low range, just the three positions on the selector switch. Locking the centre diff doesn't engage any low range as there isn't one. No low range in the Kluger, although at least it is constant 4x4 and outperformed the Adventra and Territory in one test I can remember.


I didnt think so, wasnt sure on the Kluger, but a woman i work with owned one for a couple of years and she liked it, comfy, spacous and plenty of power. Matt

[grimbo]

other options might be to look at the SWB Pajero or maybe the Tucson

[crazym3]

WOW thats good useful info....http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

RAV4....well i don't really like them as they are not strong enough for my liking...

I also found the new Land Rover Freelander 2............. What does everyone think about that??http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon5.gif I'm strongly leaning towards it as its not too big and not too small.... its almst perfect for size.( well nothing is perfect http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif)

With what I have read on the land rover site... the freelander 2 pretty much does everything I want it to do and can tow up to 2000kgs which is plenty for me......I also saw it being tested on Top Gear and it was pretty impressive.....http://www.4wdmonthly.com.au/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

So any doubts??

[bloke76]

i will put in another vote for you to consider the vitara, mainly for low range, good reputation and also availability of accessories. you may not be interested in accessories but you will come around.

[grimbo]

Freelanders from all reports are rubbish, steer clear of them. You obviously have it in your mind that you don't want a 4wd but instead want a softroader or AWD. The AWD in most cases will be better on the bitumen but the 4WD will be bettter in most cases off the bitumen.

[crazym3]

Whats the difference between 4WD, AWD and softroader?

the Land rover freelander 2 is a 4WD

[Marc 1]

Whats the difference between 4WD, AWD and softroader?

the Land rover freelander 2 is a 4WD

Used to be simple once, all proper fourby's used to be 2wd rear wheel drive on bitumen, then when the going got soft or slow you engaged 4wd which engaged the front driveshaft so you could have all 4 wheels driven. (let's keep it simple here and not talk about lockers/lsd's or open diffs in the pumpkins shall we) This type of drive train should not be used in this mode on high friction surfaces as the two axles need to turn a different rates when you steer the car around a corner, the axles are locked so you get what's called windup. Best case you'll hear tyres hopping/squealing, worst case you'll break something big and expensive in your driveline. Old 60 series Landcruisers, Troopies and Nissan Patrols all use this system.

AWD Stands for All Wheel Drive. Landcruiser 80's, 100's, Audi quattro's and all Subaru's currently sold are all wheel drive machines. They have another differential between the axles that allow them to tun at different rates, thus the system can be used anywhere. As such all the wheels are getting driven all the time hence all wheel drive. Here's where it gets a bit tricky, the Landcruiser 80's and 100's can lock their centre diff when in low range, thus making them like the traditional 4wd's.

Softroaders generally refers to the light category of 4wd's that lack low range and decent ground clearance, although you could also lump the big BMW X5, Audi Q7, Ford Territory, Toyota Kluger and Holden Adventra in the same bunch as Rav 4, CRV, Subaru Forester etc.

The generally accepted usage is that 4wd's are real fourby's mostly all with decent low range gearing, decent clearance, and a seperate chassis such as your Patrol etc. And your softroader/AWD machines that are well suited to a trip or two to the snow, dirt roads and maybe a little beach work, such as the ones mentioned above. The Toyota Hilux is definately 4wd, whereas all your other choices are softroaders/AWD's.

The Freelander is more capable than most softroaders as it has some pretty trick electronics to help, but the previous history of the brand in Aust hasn't been that flash. On the previous generation, the petrols were either gutless (1.8l) or thirsty (2.5 V6), and the diesel, a BMW 2l tdi was probably the pick. Most had waranty issues and all were overpriced.

For the same money as a Freelander 2 you could get something more capable yet not totally hardcore such as a Pajero or Pathfinder. Both would have better resale and probably reliability.

[roscoFJ73]

RAV4....well i don't really like them as they are not strong enough for my liking...

?
Well most of those on your list are about the same or worse.

Whats actually wrong with a Vitara. Its been a top seller for years,has good parts back up and has probably the best combination of off/onroad capabilty in its class.

[roscoFJ73]

With what I have read on the land rover site... the freelander 2 pretty much does everything I want it to do and can tow up to 2000kgs which is plenty for me......I also saw it being tested on Top Gear and it was pretty impressive....
So any doubts??

Top Gear is not really up to it when it comes to 4wds .They might be witty and clever when it comes to $300000 supercars because we cant really afford to buy one to prove them wrong.
I watched one of their older shows where they tried to tell the viewer their English made Range Rover was a better 4wd than a 80 series Landcruiser.
Yeah right look at the resale value when they are 15 yo.
They are Anglophiles when it comes to offroad machines,nothing can beat a Landrover is their mantra.

[d3m0n1c_4b]

I don't think any of the mentioned ones in the list have a true transfer case with high and low range like the Grand Vitara does.
as far as i knew, CX-7's weren't even 4WD, at the most i think they may be AWD like the MPS Mazda 6. i would never even try and take it on more than a gravel road.

[ODA1]

Well im another to Vote for the Grand Vitara, good onroad and good offroad with a large range of toys to add to your ride

[runner]

The nissan marano is just an over growen x trail.
(for those that dont no).

[Anjitago]

if you want it to tow a boat you have to look at the load ratings for the vehicles because a lot of them probably wont be able to tow your boat.

I would also check out the nissan pathfinder or navara - similar in size to the hlux thou. saw a new nav on the morgan trip and it did everything the patrol could do and often made things look easier, and would go places a hilux couldnt make

another thing to look for is if you want to do any mods like snorkel, suspension, bull bar, cause you cant always get mods for the vehicles unless there is a big enough demand

[jeeptheone]

Sounds like you are after a smaller 4x4 but with real offroad characteristics and a low range box. IMHO as with others the Grand Vitara or even the KJ Cherokee, both are very similar in price, size and you can even get the 2.7L oil burner in the Cherokee. Both also have heaps of aftermarket parts and support. If you are not brand loyal you have heaps to choose from for around $40K and below if you really want the low range!

JTO

[disco_nex]

KJ is a great idea, good size 4WD, but still small enough, have a diesel motor, and are being replaced soon, so you should be able to do a deal.

Freelander 2's will be the most capable compact 4WD in the market. It runs the "Terrain Response" system and will be far more capable than any machine in the catergory. As long as they are reliable, though that shouldnt be an issue with them anymore.

Grand Vitara's are nice, but now what they used to be IMO. Though still capable enough.

Top choice would have to be a diesel Hilux though.....

[Coatesy]

As an owner of a new Grand Vitara, I really have to add my two cents and endorse them ... they go really well on, and more importantly, off road.

I've been really surprised how far my Vitara has gotten me ... it's done it all - Rocks, Sand, Mud and Water ... and it currently has no suspension mods ... only BFG All-Terrain Tires ... :D

It's DEFINATELY not in the same class as a CR-V or RAV4!

I wouldn't mind some suggestions as to where I can go to look at some mods ... I now want to add a suspension kit (as we all know, bigger is better) ... and ARB don't have anything yet ... Who else should I look at??

[general lee]

Mate if i was in your position i would consider the following vehicles:

-The Grand Vitara, as you have already heard it is a very capable small 4wd, note: not AWD! has a good low range box, only drawback is independant susp all around.

-The Freelander 2, if you did only want an AWD this would be the one to go, Landrover have really picked up their act recently and if the disco3 is anything to go by then this will be a nice little car. As mentioned earlier the terrain response program is awesome.

-The new Paj short wheelbase, My uncle has driven a diesel one and said it was awesome! True low range etc and a very good looking smaller 4wd.

-Either of the KJ Cherokee or JK Wrangler, Both smaller 4wd's that are still very capable offroad, particularly the wrangler with true low range capability. If you don't like the soft top idea then get a hardtop wrangler.

-Hilux, Definitely has my vote. i drive a 07 td hilux daily and i have no problems around town, live on the sunny coast but work around brisbane a lot. It is a breeze to drive on a daily basis and i have no probs parking it.

Hope this can help.

[tuffnup79]

stick with the hilux... or have you looked at ford ranger, mazda bt50, triton or rodeo???

[steelo]

Pajero "io" a very under rated little 4b that DOES have low range.:truck:
Just opening up the "window" guys.:D

[Trojan]

.I watched one of their older shows where they tried to tell the viewer their English made Range Rover was a better 4wd than a 80 series Landcruiser.


Proves they do know what they're talking about if you ask me ;)

[grimbo]

Top Gear is not really up to it when it comes to 4wds .They might be witty and clever when it comes to $300000 supercars because we cant really afford to buy one to prove them wrong.
I watched one of their older shows where they tried to tell the viewer their English made Range Rover was a better 4wd than a 80 series Landcruiser.
Yeah right look at the resale value when they are 15 yo.
They are Anglophiles when it comes to offroad machines,nothing can beat a Landrover is their mantra.

and in their country for their conditions and for the prices of the two vehicles the Rangie probably is the beter of the two. In Australia pricing and uses are completely different and the 80 Series is probably the better bet

[boof]

Buy the Hilux the others on your list are rubbish and should not even be considered as four wheel drives. SUV as you call it really only means a 2wd with a higher driving position the on demand AWD systems are not designed for offroad work. If the Hilux really is too big then you only really have a Vitara to look at in the smaller 4wds.

Or buy the wife a little run around and buy yourself a second hand 4wd that you enjoy and can actually use.

Just my 2c

[whyallacookie]

I'd vote Vitara too, but if you really don't want to have a good look at the Hyundai range, especially the diesels.

New Xtrail is likely to have the diesel option so could be worth a wait if you want to go that way (If nothing else there might be some good buying on the out going model)

[saltyqld]

what about the new little Dodge?

they look alright :)

[Kasen]

What about a Kia Sorento?
Has Low Range, good LSD and you can add a suspension upgrade later through OME if you wish.
The diesel should be available very soon so the consumption would be around 10lt / 100kms.
I have the petrol and I am getting 12.5 on the highways and averaging 14 when combining off and on road stints.
The standard suspension is a bit too firm, but at least makes for a better ride on road. They don’t suffer the wayward steering and floating like the Terracan’s do.

I owned an X Trail before getting a Terracan, than swapped it for my current Sorento.
My reasons were due to the higher fuel consumption of the Terracan (15lt / 100km MIN) others have gotten better than that and I find the Sorento better to look at.
The change from the X Trail was a result on catching the 4WD bug.

I have been away with the Sorento heaps over the last 18 months and it has been great.
I am certainly have not gone into heavy duty off road tracks but moderate trips have been fine.

If you want to see some pictures and trip reports let me know, I am very happy to pass on any more info.

[JFR]

what about the new little Dodge?

they look alright :)I'm looking at one at the moment Dodge Australia - Nitro - Home (http://www.dodge.com.au/nitro/index.html) same drivetrain as the warngler and cherokee but in a slightly higher state of tune. Not sure how the re sale would be though, most Jeep/Dodge/Chryslers are pretty bad for re sale aren't they?

[tasar]

the petrol Jeeps have poor resale not the Diesels

the jeep diesels are just amazing thanks to the damiler connection

there are 3 diesels in 7 cars now

2l in the compass and soon be released patriot (vw engine)
2.8l in the wrangler 2 door and 4 door and KJ Cherokee (also in the nitro)
3.0l in the commander and grand

they are all economical - powerful the 3l throws out 500+ nm and gets 12l per 100k

the 4wd drive systems in the jeeps embarrass the competition especially the quadradrive II

[Luxyone]

Or buy the wife a little run around and buy yourself a second hand 4wd that you enjoy and can actually use.

Just my 2c

No there's a man with logic. Forget all the nancy SUV's get yourself a REAL fourby and buy your Mrs a brand spanking little "hair dressers" 4 cyl thing. She'll love ya for it, and you get to buy yourself a MAN's car! It'll probably cost you the same as a new SUV.

[Kiri]

If you go for a new Freelander you will have to keep it for a long time, as it makes a bad trade-in, rather go for the Suzuki, or even better follow Luxyone's advice.

[Matty R]

My 2 cents......

I own an 05 x trail and i love it. I was in a similar situation to you, i came from driving hot hatches but found i needed more space but didnt want to jump straight in to a big 4by. So the x trail fitted the bill perfect.

They are very capable, as long as you remember they are a soft roader. My exy has taken me to places i never thought i would see. We use ours as a tourer and know that it will never be a patrol or cruiser. Be aware that they do have limits.

I have added BFG A/T's and a 40mm lift and it has made the world of difference.

Having said all that, i have really been bitten by the touring bug now so once its paid off i will be moving into somthing bigger and more capable, ie patrol triton etc.

So i guess what im trying to say, if you think you are going to do more and more off road, go straight to a true 4by.

[OGJON]

Like matty r I also drive an x-trail & love it if u want low range you can bolt in the latest pathfinder transfer case as the x-trail runs a cut down version of it the only difference is it aint got the low range selector so all ya gotta do is bolt it in mod the selector buttons and away u go to do some low range tracks providing u give it a 4" sus lift.

[grimage]

And there will be another soft roader coming out later on this year if you can wait....

It is a Jeep, and no... not the Compass... How about the new Patriot?? It is built on the same platform as the Compass and the Mitsu Outlander, and is actually "Trail rated" in Jeep speak. It will have dual range, and will be available in a diesel.

From what I have read, specs wise, it will be a very capable little vehicle.

Engine sizes will be a 2.0 and a 2.4lt petrol and 2.0lt turbo diesel.

It will be priced below the Compass, which makes it priced rather well.

Here is the link to the US page: Jeep - Patriot - Home (http://www.jeep.com/en/patriot/)

[stinhambo]

Has anyone tried a Patriot off road? To me it's what the X-Trail should be - Diesel!

Alternatively, Renault are bringing out an SUV based on the X-Trail plus a diesel engine. I think that will be launched late next year though.

[Marc 1]

Has anyone tried a Patriot off road? To me it's what the X-Trail should be - Diesel!

Alternatively, Renault are bringing out an SUV based on the X-Trail plus a diesel engine. I think that will be launched late next year though.

Subaru will have a flat 4 turbo diesel next year too, combine that with constant AWD, a dual range transmission and a 40mm suspension lift, and you've got quite a capable littlie.:waycool:

[peteinoz]

LOL.. your not an expert on what your looking for..

but get pretty much expert opinions on what is good in the market your looking in..

but then you suddenly become an expert about what is not good about the cars advised to you LOL

why even ask questions if you suddenly know more about the cars the good people here are telling you is the best in this market?

seems like you wasting peoples time more than you actually want to be advised on what is a good little truck or not.

btw... if you want a diesel .. theres only 2 on your list that come with it.

pete

[tasar]

And there will be another soft roader coming out later on this year if you can wait....

It is a Jeep, and no... not the Compass... How about the new Patriot?? It is built on the same platform as the Compass and the Mitsu Outlander, and is actually "Trail rated" in Jeep speak. It will have dual range, and will be available in a diesel.

From what I have read, specs wise, it will be a very capable little vehicle.

Engine sizes will be a 2.0 and a 2.4lt petrol and 2.0lt turbo diesel.

It will be priced below the Compass, which makes it priced rather well.

Here is the link to the US page: Jeep - Patriot - Home (http://www.jeep.com/en/patriot/)

gimage

Patriot and compass same car underneath except the patriot has traditional 17in jeep wheels and the compass has 18in wheels

a couple of other nice to have on the compass plus it uses less fuel as more streamlined

Patriot not trail rated in oz - $1000 option in the states ....with a low range gear box and transfer case won't get it here unless they sell a few

both cars a re worth a look if you want a diesel - the six speed 2l crd is fantastic and at 6.5l per 100k hard too ignore

the petrol cvt 2.4l is a funny gearbox but goes nicely

I've order a compass crd ltd with sunroof and 9 speaker boston acoustic ...just waiting for it too arrive

good luck looking there is alot of competition in the market space



otherwise go for a subaru forestor 2.5l turbo ....can that fly