GU recovery points?

[YOYO]

Above the Tow Bar is a U shaped hook welded to a thick plate with 4 bolts to it. I know it supposed to be a recovery point but I want to know how good is it. Am i better off getting aftermarket ARB ones that bolt to chassis or is the factory recovery point good enough.

At the front of the veichle there is also a recovery hook to the chasis Is one of them enough one one side or should there be 2.

Thanking you in advance Yoyo

[trity]

if it is standard i dare say the recovery hook at the front is actually a tie down hook

get proper rated recovery hooks all round mate you are better off taking it somewhere to set you up properly

i have heard of people using the hook on the back step but the dud change the bolts to high tensile but i'd still be weary of using it

[Patrolling Paddy]

I think you'll find that is a tie down loop, not a recovery point. Be very carefull using this for any recovery as it is likely to pull off. I have used mine (prior to knowing better) but I will never use it again and have taken it off.
If you have a Reece hitch then you can use the pin (put the strap into the hitch and put the pin through stap) or you can buy a receiver with a hook/shackle to fit in where your tow receiver would. Or you can get a rated ARB or similar recover hook on the chassis, two with a equalising bridal would be best.

[YOYO]

Its got tie down loops on both sides but on drivers side of chassis has got a reverse steel hook looks very strong nothing like the tie down points. The Patrol is an ST if thats of any help to anyone. It's definetly factory. I might do some research 2morrow on it

[Chriso]

I think the recovery point (hook) at the front right side of the GU is that exactly...a recovery point. At least I hope so, as I have been using that, not very often because, well lets face it, it is a PATROL:D It doesnt make sense that it would be a tie down point as it is a hook and in reality any rope , chain or strap would slip off. Ther are also obvious tie down points at the front.
As for the rear loop, I have been wondering the same thing, but I have a pintle hook in the tow bar that I use to recover Toyota's:thumb:

[trity]

if you're not sure go to a 4wd shop and ask them direct they will say yes or no (more than likely no) i believe it is a tie down point and i wouldn't be using it

really you should have two points on the front and two points on the back and use an equaliser strap at all time to prevent chassis twisting

you can use the reece hitch as a recovery point that has served me well in the past but i never ever used a tie down point for recovery as it will become a missile once it snaps

[GUJohnno]

The front hooks can and do break. i have had one snap off my truck.
If it looks like it has taken a hit, don't risk it and get it replaced.

The loop on the back is not rated for recovies. It may be strong, but I wouldn't take the risk.

[mick85]

if you're not sure go to a 4wd shop and ask them direct they will say yes or no (more than likely no) i believe it is a tie down point and i wouldn't be using itthey'll only say no like majority of 4by shops so they can sting ya for a new hook and labour if need be etc!!!:crazy:

[TonyH]

I doubt ot's a tie down point. They're usually on the corners of the chasis. God know I've pulled some dead Toyota's out of some sticky bogs from the rear loop, and it hasn't looked like loosing it's shape.

It bolts directly to the chasis, with some kick ass bolts, I think it's safe to trust it, but if you don't, you can always remove the tongue from your tow bar and put the pin through your recovery strap, or fit a recovery tongue from a 4by shop.

At the front you can use the recovery hook that's bolted to one side of the chasis, or if your bullbar allows, a rated shackle on each of the tie down points is a better option as it shares the total load evenly down both chasis rails.

I don't know about vehicle other than the Patrols, or recomend using tie down points for recovery, but these front suckers are plenty strong enough. I'm sure others here will strongly dis-agree, but it's a decision you will have to make for yourself if you choose to use them.

[GUJohnno]

It bolts directly to the chasis, with some kick ass bolts, I think it's safe to trust it
It bolts to a cross member, which is nowhere as strong as directly to the chassis

or if your bullbar allows, a rated shackle on each of the tie down points is a better option as it shares the total load evenly down both chasis rails.

The eyelets on the bull bars are far too small to use for recovery.
Your taking too many risks using these.

Recoveries can be very dangerous, don't take any short cuts.

[FullyInjected4x4]

I have used the hook that bolts onto the chassis on the front of both my patrols many times and have never had a problem. I have also used the U shaped hook on the rear to recover, althrough i perfer to use my reece hitch. But i have recovered off the U hook once and riped an aftermarket recover hook off the 4wd i was recovering, which shot into my back step of my patrol. So just because it is an aftermarket hook doesnt mean its better than the factory ones on the Patrol. I think the Patrols factor hooks are as good if not better than aftermarket ones.

[chas]

Along similiar lines,

On my 98 GU i use a recovery hitch which slips into towbar on back. Happy with that.

The front is the issue. I have used the standard recovery which bolts to side of drivers side chassis rail but have heard a few scare stories about it.

Id like to fit an aftermarket recovery hook on front but cant see any spot on front where i could attach it to (I have TJM steel winch bar).

Has anyone with a GU found a good spot to mount a hook to? One of the main issues i have is if you find a good spot and drill a hole in chassis you cant get to inside of rail to put nut on anyway!

Any pics of solutions would be great

Chas

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

The big hook on the drivers side chassis rail of GQ/GU Patrols is a RECOVERY POINT, the manual tells you that, AND NISSAN will tell you that if you ask. They WILL NOT give you a SWL or WLL or any other form of rating tho', so while it might be safe to use, it's up to you to make a judgement call!

The little eyes on the bottom of bull bars ARE NOT recovery points for snatching. They will take static loads but not dynamic loads, so are really NOT for use during most 4WD recoveries, and I've seen shackles attached to both by a load equalising bridle passing thru the back window AND the front window of the recovering vehicle, bridle and all!

You are best off to fit TWO rated recovery hooks, from a 4wd accessory shop is OK, from a rigging and slings place is better. They will mount onto the same plate the bull bar mounts to, often into the same holes with captive nuts, but if you need to get them lower, there are a number of attachments made that will allow you to fix a drop bracket to the chassis rail in the same spot and then attach the hooks to it. Ask at your local 4wd accessory shop or visit Nobles or similar and get something made up.

The loop on the rear IS NOT A RECOVERY POINT it is a tow loop for rigid towing bars. The cross member behind it is made of the same material as the chassis itself, and is braced and boxed, so it is massively strong where that loop os attached. Every other country in the world gets an 8tonne rated pintle hook mounted in that same spot, but for some reason it doesn't make it here. There are places here that can supply and fit pintle hooks to that spot (utilising the captive nut holes) Failing that, you can use the tow bar receiver without the insert, sliding the loop of your strap into the hole and passing the pin thru the loop. If the pin and towbar are genuine Nissan or HR, then you won't stand a chance this side of hell of bending it, but if you don't know or can't find out if they are, don't risk it, get a genuine one or fit an Outback Ideas Bush Hook. I prefer hooks to eyes, simply because if you don't put the strap loop in the shackle mounted in the eye in the right position, you can tear open the shackle and rip the lot out, sending a shackle shaped projectile flying at a rapid rate of knots towards the car on the far end of the strap!! NEVER use an unrated shackle, and if you must use and eye, make sure that the pin of the shackle will be vertical when it is mounted. Horizontal mounted shackles allow a pull at an angle to the axis of the pin, and it is those that can be deadly!!

Always check that your hooks and eyes are attached with HT bolts, and that they are attached directly to a chassis rail or the rear cross member, or to a peice of metal attached directly to the chassis, like one of the main struts on your bull bar, the pieces of steel that are attached to the chassis anyhow. They often have twin holes just above the horizontal deck that are designed for mounting recovery hooks! Think Safety first, last, and during!

Enjoy!

[TonyH]

I have bent the front recovery point on my old wagon, so I started using the tie downs, and they seemed to hold up fine (always made a point of checking each use), though none of these recoveries were in mud, mainly a gentle tug to get a diff off a rock etc.

Peter, are these the points you meant, or did I read right in that you meant holes in a plate somewhere on the bullbar. I found that my bullbar was hanging low enough I couldn't fit a strap to the tie down without it rubbing, hence, if you bullbar allows.

I recently fitted a riggers lifting eyes rated at 18tonnes I think to my bullbar using a panel washer to spread load through the bar. I will change it soon so to incorporate a bracket that bolts to the chasis rail, and is bent at 90 degrees snug with the back of the bulll bar channel. I'll then bolt the eyes through both the bullbar channel and the new bracket, and put one on each side.

[GUJohnno]

I've seen the pright stays on the ARB bars bend, very easily, when pull a vehicle out with a recovery hook attatched to those holes.

[YOYO]

Thanks Peter I will take your advice. I have a genuine Nissan towbar but it will have a trailer attached to it. In most cases I will need to be towed forward as we will be travelling in up to cape and I'm at the back of the convoy

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I've seen the pright stays on the ARB bars bend, very easily, when pull a vehicle out with a recovery hook attatched to those holes.

They can bend, it's true, but that should be minimised if you have TWO HOOKS fitted to the indicated spots on the uprights (low and very close to the top deck of the bumper section) AND you use a load equalising bridle to spread the load evenly. If you look closely at your 'instructions for conducting a Snatch recovery' they also suggest that 'every recovery should be made straight ahead from the front of the vehicle' ie, try and only carry out snatch recoveries where you can get directly in line with the long axis of the vehicle. And even then, the destructions suggest that the pull should only be sufficient to ensure the extraction of the vehicle within reasonable amounts of exertion, and should not be conducted with heavy accelleration or excessive force. And if you do all that, you'll never have any issues with bending bull bar uprights and if your equipment is maintained and cleaned appropriately you should never have any broken straps issues either!

Many people consider that snatch recoveries are intended to be carried out with as much run up for the recovering vehicle as you can get, as well as heavy accelleration and brutal 'G' forces as things work! NOT SO! You should only be using about 2 steps of slack in the strap at most (ie stand alongside strap, bend down and pick it up by your feet, take 2 steps back towards the eye on the stuck vehicle, then put the strap down; affix the other eye to the hook on the recovering vehicle without reducing the overlap to get the MAXIMUM safe overlap), and you ONLY need enough momentum in the recovering vehicle to stretch the strap; IT'S THE STRETCH IN THE STRAP THAT SHOULD DO THE RECOVERY!! If the recovering vehicle is being jerked as the strap comes under full stretch ie IT (the car) is PULLING once the strap is stretched to its limit, THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG AND YOU SHOULD BE LOOKING AT OTHER FORMS OF RECOVERY!! Let the STRETCH in the strap do the work, and it's a lot gentler than most think (and a lot easier too!) Once you get close to the end of the stretch, the stuck car should be popping out of the bog easily! And an 8 tonne strap will actually exert pretty close to that much pulling force as it resiles too, so for most bogs, you don't need to work hard!!

BTW, remember that bigger straps (ie 10 tonne) are for bigger CARS, not bigger recoveries! Most medium 4By's should be fine with an 8 tonne strap, and a 10 tonne strap is more than adequate for the larger trucks in mildly modded condition (weight wise) commonly seen. Things like F250's, Geolandars, Canters, Pinzgaurs, and OKA's might need a 15 tonne strap, but not many lighter vehicles! DO NOT use a 15 tonne strap to recover a Nissan Patrol or a Toyota 80/100 series, you stand a good chance of breaking the car/s! If you keep breaking 8 and 10 tonne straps, then YOU ARE using incorrect techniques and you will end up hurting someone/thing if you continue using those techniques! Modify your techniques to avoid breaking the correctly rated straps!

[jedsute]

i guess these are what are being discussed?

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/jedsute/hook2.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t311/jedsute/hook1.jpg

[High Country]

Hi - that hoop in the centre of the chassis at the rear (lower photo), is definitely not safe to snatch off. Because - A) They are not held on with HT bolts ex the factory.......& B) If you unbolt it & look at the back of the assembly - the hoop is only pressed through the backing plate - has no welds on the rear. Shock load from a snatch recovery, tears the front welds & turns the loop into a projectile with a shackle attached to it..............

Using a 50mm receiver towbar hole / pin at the rear - big thumbs up - works well, & is fairly safe. My most prefered option anyway.

Cheers.

[jedsute]

yeah i wouldnt even consider using the rear one

[ergjan]

when i did my advanced driver training this year, they told me the rear shackle is rated and fine for recovery. I still choose just to use a reciever in the towbar with a rated hook.

[luxa]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/luxa/DSCF00011.jpg
Outback Ideas - Front Recovery Point, 10mm steel plate.
Large hole for shackle attachment, 2 small holes allow a recovery hook to be attached also.
From memory they don't fit GU IV, as they replace the factory hook that is secured with 3 horizontal bolts only (inc GQ, early GU).

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a69/luxa/RearBoltonBushHook.jpg
Outback Ideas - Rear Recovery point - same bolt pattern as the factory one.

Luxa

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

when i did my advanced driver training this year, they told me the rear shackle is rated and fine for recovery. I still choose just to use a reciever in the towbar with a rated hook.

Nissan will tell you that too, then refuse to give you ANY idea of Testing limits or more importantly, WLL, or SWL, so it's a judgement call on your behalf as to the range of safe circumstances for use!

So while it may suffice as a 'Last Resort' option, you are going to be way better off using the brackets that luxa posted, with appropriately rated hooks mounted on/in them (the Outback Ideas hooks are tested to 10000lbs!) And there are also Rated Pintle hooks that will go on the back, mounting to the bolts on the rear cross member, and rated for towing too! They have hooks that are rated up to massive loadings, far greater than anyhthing I'd want to be on the recovering end of!!

Enjoy!

[sudso]

Sorry to hijack but since this question about factory tie downs/recovery points is open, I have one about the brackets that are welded to the chassis on all four corners on GQ's (both front rails, both rear rails). They are 6mm plate with a fair size slotted hole in them.
Are they factory tie downs?
To me they seem strong enough to tow from if a bridle strap is used but I wouldn't take my chances doing a snatch recovery from them.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Sudso, they are factory TIE-DOWNS!! They MIGHT survive a tow or 6, or even a snatch recovery or 2, but are you prepared to take the risk?

It's one of those things, maybe as a last resort and it was that desperate?? But certainly not in the normal course of events!

Cheers!

[sudso]

Hi - that hoop in the centre of the chassis at the rear (lower photo), is definitely not safe to snatch off. Because - A) They are not held on with HT bolts ex the factory.......& B) If you unbolt it & look at the back of the assembly - the hoop is only pressed through the backing plate - has no welds on the rear. Shock load from a snatch recovery, tears the front welds & turns the loop into a projectile with a shackle attached to it..............

Using a 50mm receiver towbar hole / pin at the rear - big thumbs up - works well, & is fairly safe. My most prefered option anyway.

Cheers.Or get one of these 30T babies;) (Everything will break before this does)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/sudso/2006_1201.jpg

A repost but this is what the bullbar eyelets should really only be used for. It's actually what they are for, Hi-Lift jack adaptor.
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/sudso/2006_0601ARBjackmount0004.jpg[/URL]
[URL="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/sudso/2006_1201.jpg"] (http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a54/sudso/2006_0601ARBjackmount0004.jpg)

[sudso]

Sudso, they are factory TIE-DOWNS!! They MIGHT survive a tow or 6, or even a snatch recovery or 2, but are you prepared to take the risk?

It's one of those things, maybe as a last resort and it was that desperate?? But certainly not in the normal course of events!

Cheers!Hey did I mention that I asked for rated recovery eyelets (bolt in ones) with my new bar?

They sent two rated ones.............WWL 0.7T lifting eyes :eek:

[MikeH]

Sudso, I'm fairly sure Japanese Automotive grade 7 bolts are not particularly high tensile. I'd get a set of 12.8 bolts for that 30 ton hitch if I were you.
I have a reference chart somewhere for Jap Auto bolts, I'll post some info when I find it.

[sudso]

They're actually a 4 embossed on them. I thought those numbers correspond to torque settings stated in the manuals though, not the grade of bolt.
I've never heard of grade 7 bolts. Keen to see that Jap auto bolt chart though.
4.6 and 8.8 etc are common. I wouldnt have a clue what grade those bolts are on the pintle hook but even 4.6 grade times four of them makes it a reasonably strong fix.

Dont worry, I dont snatch from it. I have towed with it though.
In my owners manual it says that (the factory loop ones) are for tow recovery only, meaning they're not for snatching or trying to tow vehicles that are suction stuck chassis deep in mud.
cheers

[MikeH]

Most this information is from the back of a Toyota repair manual for chassis and body for a 1984 hilux.

It seems reasonable that a bolt that can be tensioned with more force would have a higher tensile strength.

I've searched a bit for eqivalence table to compare to Automotive grade to the commonly used 8.8, 10.9 and 12.9 without any success.
To give you some indication I've put the recommended torque for an M10 hex head non-flanged bolt - there's a page full of tensions for M6 to M16 and I'm not entering it all.

4 or no mark = class 4t tension is 19 ft-lb (flat ended studs are 4t)
5 or two protruding dashes = 5t - 24 ft-lb
6 or two protuding lines with captive washer = 6t - 29 ft-lb (studs with a circular groove on the end are 6t)
7 or three protruding lines = 7t - 38ft-lb

From a fastener website:
M10 grade 8.8 should be tensioned to 36 ft-lb
M10 grade 10.9 is 51 ft-lb
M10 grade 12.9 is 61 ft-lb

Sudso: I suggest you go buy some bolts and a lotto ticket. :)