Lokka diff lock

[BigDave]

G'day,
Just wondering if anyone has fitted a Lokka diff lock (the automatic locking type)?

Im considering fitting one to the front of my FJ62 lancruiser, as with the hubs unlocked it wont make a difference around town...then an ARB airlocker for the back when i can afford one :(

Has anyone had any problems with them or heard of problems with steering or axles snapping off road?

Do they really lock and unlock with the ease they say they do??

Has anyone tried them in sand?

They seem to sound good for their price.

cheers
Dave

[baby_troupe]

I have heard they can be a pain to get them unlocked sometimes (from a guy who has them on the fron axle of his 4runner).
He also often breaks CVs. Could be a coincidence, but I cannot be too sure.

[adamleschke]

I've got two mates who have got one on the front of there GQ Patrols. They don't really recommend them and would spend the money on air lockers next time. They do lock and stay locked when 4wding but they have mentioned quite a few times about having trouble turning especially up tough stuff with power applied. Seems to be that when not much force is applied they unlock to turn easily, it's the other times when your giving it a bit that they have trouble unlocking and turning. Another mate had one on his Landcruiser and thinks its better than air lockers because nothing can really go wrong, like break a compressor hose etc. Thinking of getting lockers soon and still tossing up which way to go. Leaning more towards air lockers because you can at least turn them off and probably give you less wear and tear on a part time 4wd. :-\

[JoeLux]

I was thinking about gettin the same locker setup for my 'lux, but i have a mate with a lokka on the front and air locker at the back.... and the steering problems caused when it locks in are not worth it.... Which has made me think that if i do go for the cheaper option it might be best to go for the lokka at the back and an air locker at the front. Even if that does slightly compromise on road handling, personally i would be willing to learn to adapt for the traction advantage off road ;)

[BigDave]

Thanks for the comments...

I guess you just have to comprimise. I suppose the only real way is to drive a similar set up and see how it goes.

The price difference is enourmous though, as good as ARB are they overprice everything so much. Is sand and loose dirt i cant see the steering being too much of a problem, as with when climbing in low range. I guess at high speed you could just use 2WD...the big old cruiser doesnt really get pushed hard around too many corners off road.

maybe i'll just leave it ???

Thanks
Dave

[Pegasus]

Hey

I had a lokka diff lock in the back of my 4runner, I chipped the teeth of the drivers side plate, killed the lokka. It seems a bit week. It also made some pretty cool noises cornering, and failed to unlock easily, especially under power...

Stew

[Lotza MUMBO]

Hey

I had a lokka diff lock in the back of my 4runner, I chipped the teeth of the drivers side plate, killed the lokka. It seems a bit week. It also made some pretty cool noises cornering, and failed to unlock easily, especially under power...

Stew


Was this a LOKKA or a Lock Right?

[Pegasus]

lokka is the company that makes the lockrite diff lock

Stew

[Lotza MUMBO]

lokka is the company that makes the lockrite diff lock

Stew


No they are 2 different animals.
There is a LOKKA lockright by 4wd systems and there is a Lockright by PowerTrax.

[Pegasus]

ah, ok, I am with you, sorry, mine was the powertrax one.

Stew

[Lotza MUMBO]

ah, ok, I am with you, sorry, mine was the powertrax one.

Stew


Yeah ok then in my opinion you had the better of the two. I have heard very little complaints about the Powertrax one except for when they are run in the front and a CV is broken they are prone to failure. but this is usually just the pins which can be replaced.

[wooders]

I've got a Powertrax LockRight in the front of ma TJ & Love it......BUT there's NO WAY I'd fit one to the rear of ANY 4beee

[Lotza MUMBO]

Dave if you are still looking for a Lockright there is one for sale HERE (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5429)

[mal64]

I have a shorty BJ42 with a lokka in the back. Have found it hunts around a corner if you are on the balance of power/coast. then sometimes on a tight turn it throws you around some. Then theres the touque steer when I change gears under power on the black stuff, have to watch that as well.

If I could have afforded it an air locker would have been installed, but didnt so I will put up with it

Good luck! ???

[mudlux]

Automatic diff locks in the front can be a bit of an handfull at times. When going up hills wich are slippery rutted and have small bends automatic lockers can make the truck understeer and slide about.
Most of the time you will end up kissing a tree or over a cliff :o ??? :'(
I have air lockers front & back and never turn on the front one going up hills unless I get stuck or I can manage it.

[YobboFourby]

Hey All,

Ive been running lokka's front and rear in my IFS 4runner for around 9 months now and cant complain at all. As for the understeer and reduced turning circle, yeah sure it sucks sometimes but you get used to it and the benifits far out way the cons, I havent broken a cv or drivetrain part since putting them in as you no longer need to hit hills at speed or rely on momentum to get up things. But if your ordering them from the goose in adelaide be prepared to wait as mine took 4 months to arrive after being lied to all the time, good product, terrible service!!!!!

[als4b]

i'm very interested in this topic i have a lockrite in the rear of my hilux and to date no mech problems and the traction increase i got outways the loss of turning cicle. all i had to do was drive my lux differently now still thinking about putting one in the front. it has had 1 year of solid abuse no probs as with the click, click noise turn up the radio

[MTB4x4MAD]

I also have a Hilux with Lokka's front and rear. They have made a huge difference to the capabiltiy of the vehicle and the only down side is the extremely heavy steering - the hilux doesn't have power steering. Has anyone else had this problem? How much difference will the addition of power steering make?
The steering is currently manageable but is very tiring after 10 minutes of full on offroad terrain with low pressure tyres. Any suggestions?

[YobboFourby]

power steering defenitly helps at slow speeds, not much difference above about 40, but if you can do 40 you only need 2h anyway,

[Westoztroopa]

I agree with YobboFourby that the the pros outweigh the cons but ofcouse every fourby (and drivers) is different and the probs may manifest themselves in different ways.
In my situation I have had a Lokka fitted to my Jackaroo for about 2 and a half years with no probs. I can live with the heavy steering and understeer as the lokkas performance is very good.

Cheers,

Noel

[Pitbull]

Ok , all to their own , I have a Auto Lokka fitted to the front of my IFS Hilux for approx 2years and apart from slightly heavier steering and a tendency for the steering wheel wanting to return to centre more than before there is also a slightly larger turning circle, apart from that I've driven in sand , mud , rocky tracks etc etc etc without any problems steering , even driving at 100km on dirt roads going around bends etc , no problems, a great deal has to do on whether it has been fitted correctly or not and as for snapping CV 's to my opinion i haven't even come close and thats in the rough stuff , but like i said all to their own .

[YankeeDave]

well i have a lokka for sale for the front of a GQ or GU.

if you're in the melbourne area and are interested let me know
fitzpatrick7@hotmail.com

[Hiluxboy]

When i bought my 85 lux it had detroit true trac lokker in the back diff and a limo in the front diff. After having the truck for six weeks i swapped the diff centres from front to back the detroit was extremly harsh in its operation and made the car a pig to drive. As i accelarated around a corner it would lock and than release with large bang. i understand you should change your driving style but if you have to cross traffic whilst turning a corner you can't just roll so the diff won't lock.
Anyway the lokker is now in the front and i feel its a good comprimise when i get the money i will put air lokker in the back.
With 4 low engaged its a pig to turn with no power steering but if you unlock one hub when you turn a sharp corner it is easy as.
Any way get the lokker if your not happy with it in the back swap it to the front, the swap only takes about 4 hours

[The Troll]

You all seam to have fitted these to the rear, my problem is that I have a GU Patrol with LSD so only need to fit it to the front. So is it worth getting it or an air locker. Most of my driving is on the beach and some of the places we go it get very soft. Wouldn't you have the same steering problems with an air locker while its on?
Also which make is better?

[zordo]

Can't say about a lokka but i had a detroit in an 80s for nine years & no problems. highly recommend a detroit. It may cost more but it is a far better unit & bulletproof.
cheers Zordo

[Mick.]

You all seam to have fitted these to the rear, my problem is that I have a GU Patrol with LSD so only need to fit it to the front. So is it worth getting it or an air locker. Most of my driving is on the beach and some of the places we go it get very soft. Wouldn't you have the same steering problems with an air locker while its on?
Also which make is better?
I cant speak for the cheaper lockers but I have a detroit soft locker in the front of mine and its good on the beach. You don't know its there until you go to climb something and it pulls you up with ease. ;) On sand I cant imagine an air locker being that good. :-\

Cheers Mick.

[fromunder4x4]

You all seam to have fitted these to the rear, my problem is that I have a GU Patrol with LSD so only need to fit it to the front. So is it worth getting it or an air locker. Most of my driving is on the beach and some of the places we go it get very soft. Wouldn't you have the same steering problems with an air locker while its on?
Also which make is better?
yes you will have the same problems with any locker be it air or auto when on
by the way i have front and rear lokka diff locks in my ifs hilux a must and the price cant beat that! ( after 1 1/2 yrs driving with one in the rear would now love the be able to turn it off for my wife to use on road it is a pig!) I would fit one to the front of any 4b that can have free wheeling hubs fitted

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Just noticed this one, and very intrigued by the old post from Marklux, with his Detroit True Trak in the rear and all its banging and lurching!! The True Trak is a geared LSD, and not only doesn't it bang or lurch, it CAN'T do either!! As a limited slip diff, it uses gears instead of clutch packs to transfer drive from one side when it spins, across to the other side that still has traction!!

I don't really know what would have been doing the banging and lurching, especially as he says he had a 'limo' in the front??! I just wonder if he had an older style Detroit Series III Locker in the back?? That MAY have done the things he described, but anything that has been produced by Detroit since about 1996-7 has been the Series IV, and then the Softlocker since about 2000!! Maybe he got dudded on the sale, or did he buy something second hand??

fromunder4x4, you will find that fitting a Detroit Series IV Softlocker IN THE REAR, you'll get a 100% increase in 4WD ability AND 75% of your former 4WD ability in 2WD as well as some other on-road benefits. There are a few people who have put the Detroit in the rear and transferred the LSD into the front with great success. If you are happy with the LSD up the back, the Detroit up front will still give you a 100% increase in 4WD ability, you just miss out on the 2WD benefits and the increase in offroad capability while in 4WD.

Either way, you'll really notice the benefits of the auto locker, and because it still allows full differentiation, you don't get any of the drawbacks that you run into with manual lockers!! The drawbacks are caused by the diff NOT differentiating, and the Detroit does differentiate, in fact it takes as little as 2" of more travel by one tyre tread to cause the diff to disengage and allow differentiation - usually it will differentiate for lane changes!!

Go the Detroit Series IV and enjoy the unparralleled traction!! Have Fun!

[Alistair]

everything i have read on the topic has lead me to belive, ither a lokka in the rear, and an air loker in the front, or dual detroite soft lockers, or a soft locker in the back and a air locker in front. but never a lokka in the front, but thats what ive read, not what i know.

[fromunder4x4]

everything i have read on the topic has lead me to belive, ither a lokka in the rear, and an air loker in the front, or dual detroite soft lockers, or a soft locker in the back and a air locker in front. but never a lokka in the front, but thats what ive read, not what i know.
mate what type of driving are u mostly doing ????
as i said before I have both front and rear lokka diff lock (4WD systems type) had front first it was like god pulling me up the hills it was great only fitted rear because i had got both at the same time. have driven in sand ,mud,very loose rocks up most of the hills at LCMP no problem
the main reason i have this type of locker is the amount of coin i had to spend no much!! but when u can get 2 lockers for the less than the price of and air locker what would you do ??
yes most of my mates run ARB lockers in there 80 series cruisers but won't say it too loud that they are impressed how far the old IFS hilux will go.
i hope this helps

[Alistair]

i do more mud and bush, and rock work, will proably do light sand ctivity in the future but not for a while.

id fit a mech loker to the back without hesitatin, i jsut dont wanna be going up a steep hill and have the front not turn sharp enough,

theres a certain place i remnber, and if i had a lokker lock on me on this place, i rekon i woulda rolled back down the rock face, i needed to be abel to steer realy really shrply...

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

That won't happen with a Detroit Softlocker!! If it's a firm enough surface to stop the vehicle from turning properly, it's firm enough to allow the Detroit to disengage!! All it takes is for the tread of one front wheel to travel 2" more than the tread of the other, and the locker disengages!! If the surface is soft, muddy, or sandy, the outside wheel might not disengage, but if it doesn't, it WILL drag the front around just about twice as fast as you'd do it with an open diff!! You can actually use that as a feature to make the vehicle do some pretty tight turns in the sand, all it takes is making sure that the tyre pressure is low enough!!

I could never get an air locker or a Lockright to do that!! Whadda you reckon mick? Have you noticed the tendency of the outside wheel to hook in and drag the front around like that??

[Mick.]

That won't happen with a Detroit Softlocker!! If it's a firm enough surface to stop the vehicle from turning properly, it's firm enough to allow the Detroit to disengage!! All it takes is for the tread of one front wheel to travel 2" more than the tread of the other, and the locker disengages!! If the surface is soft, muddy, or sandy, the outside wheel might not disengage, but if it doesn't, it WILL drag the front around just about twice as fast as you'd do it with an open diff!! You can actually use that as a feature to make the vehicle do some pretty tight turns in the sand, all it takes is making sure that the tyre pressure is low enough!!

I could never get an air locker or a Lockright to do that!! Whadda you reckon mick? Have you noticed the tendency of the outside wheel to hook in and drag the front around like that??
I've only driven mine on sand about 3 times since fitting the detroit even though I live 500 metres from it. :D When I get it on the sand next time i'll have a bit of a play around on the dunes and do some circles and see if it does it.

I havn't really noticed the locker at all on the beach. The only time i've noticed it was when I have driven up some short steep sand dunes that I needed to hit with a bit of speed before but know I can crawl up them. ;)

I don't drive in mud if I can help it and on rocks the detroit cuts in & out without any noise and steers as well as it did before the locker was fitted. The factory patrol steering circle was crap before the locker but it didn't get any worse. :D

Cheers Mick.

[fromunder4x4]

That won't happen with a Detroit Softlocker!! If it's a firm enough surface to stop the vehicle from turning properly, it's firm enough to allow the Detroit to disengage!! All it takes is for the tread of one front wheel to travel 2" more than the tread of the other, and the locker disengages!! If the surface is soft, muddy, or sandy, the outside wheel might not disengage, but if it doesn't, it WILL drag the front around just about twice as fast as you'd do it with an open diff!! You can actually use that as a feature to make the vehicle do some pretty tight turns in the sand, all it takes is making sure that the tyre pressure is low enough!!

I could never get an air locker or a Lockright to do that!! Whadda you reckon mick? Have you noticed the tendency of the outside wheel to hook in and drag the front around like that??
peter at aawen 4x4 what does the soft locker from detroit cost????
after fitting the locker to the front of my lux my steering has slight pull to centre when you power on ( as it should) only notice it on sand driving
but steering up,down and across tracks of any type is as easy as before a front locker was fitted(4WD systems type) love to know the cost for a front ifs hilux please ;D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Not really sure on the cost of individual fittings for these, but Opposite Lock are the National Retailer, and should be able to help! Then again, I'm not reaflly sure that Detroit do a front for the IFS Hilux, you might be on your own there!!

The Nissan units are about $1200 for the Detroit Series IV Softlocker, and if the diff has done over about 100,000 km, you really should consider replacing the bearings and seals too! That usually means that you're looking at about $1500 for a Nissan Detroit Softlocker, and a 100% increase in your 4WD ability!!

The Lokka type is almost identical to the unit that Detroit used during the 60's, and replaced as the technology improved! Detroit have since gone thru a Series III, Series IV, Series IV Softlocker, and the latest, the Series IV Softlocker 'Improved' version. Each one has got better in the minimisation of on-road impact and the smoothness of engage/disengage action.

Have Fun!

[CanberraMav]

For the price you definetely want to go the Air locker. Read the comments left by nearly everyone in this thread besides Peter and Mick and decide for yourself.

The Air locker is a safer and by far more superior diff lock and is much more suited for the day to day applications as well as the more harcore users.

Mechanical difflocks should be a low cost alternative to consider but in the case of Detroits they are $$$$$

[crusher]

That won't happen with a Detroit Softlocker!! If it's a firm enough surface to stop the vehicle from turning properly, it's firm enough to allow the Detroit to disengage!! All it takes is for the tread of one front wheel to travel 2" more than the tread of the other, and the locker disengages!! If the surface is soft, muddy, or sandy, the outside wheel might not disengage, but if it doesn't, it WILL drag the front around just about twice as fast as you'd do it with an open diff!! You can actually use that as a feature to make the vehicle do some pretty tight turns in the sand, all it takes is making sure that the tyre pressure is low enough!!

I could never get an air locker or a Lockright to do that!! Whadda you reckon mick? Have you noticed the tendency of the outside wheel to hook in and drag the front around like that??
peter at aawen 4x4 what does the soft locker from detroit cost????
after fitting the locker to the front of my lux my steering has slight pull to centre when you power on ( as it should) only notice it on sand driving
but steering up,down and across tracks of any type is as easy as before a front locker was fitted(4WD systems type) love to know the cost for a front ifs hilux please ;D


Opposite Lock jrecently quoted me $1850 for a Detroit soft locker for the front of the GQ; which included replacing the bearings and seals.
Last price I got on an ARB airlocker was $1895 but I think its dearer now

[Mick.]

For the price you definetely want to go the Air locker. Read the comments left by nearly everyone in this thread besides Peter and Mick and decide for yourself.

The Air locker is a safer and by far more superior diff lock and is much more suited for the day to day applications as well as the more harcore users.

Mechanical difflocks should be a low cost alternative to consider but in the case of Detroits they are $$$$$
Maybe you should read the thread again yourself. ;) All the others except myself, Peter & Zordo are talking about the cheaper lockers not the Detroits. Don't tar everything with the same brush. ::)

[bad_religion_au]

For the price you definetely want to go the Air locker. Read the comments left by nearly everyone in this thread besides Peter and Mick and decide for yourself.

The Air locker is a safer and by far more superior diff lock and is much more suited for the day to day applications as well as the more harcore users.

Mechanical difflocks should be a low cost alternative to consider but in the case of Detroits they are $$$$$


anything to substantiate these claims? at least one of the two guys you said to "ignore their comments" gets out in the scrub all the time (sorry don't know ya mick, i'm sure you do too)... and i'll back their call too, and mine gets wheeled pretty much every weekend.

how is the airlocker safer? it's an open diff on the road (less traction in the wet, etc)... its either open, and you can turn, or locked and it compromises steering... fit an airlocker to anything that had an lsd, and you've taken a step back traction wise onroad, and anytime offroad where you don't have it locked in.

but your right, ignore everyones comments in the thread that doesn't agree with your narrow minded opinion... that'll give unbiased advice.

[Gumby]

If i had the money i think i would go air lockers.

Not that im biased but thats just what id rather for my $$$

The new detroits that have been mentioned by a few fellas on this thread should be great...ive heard nothing
but positve feedback on these lockers...im sure if i came
across a detroit at a bargain price i would jump on it.

Good luck with your choice mate.

[Alistair]

this is one thing i hate bout asking questions, ya get all kinds of feed back and after a while it gets hard to figure out who to follow, and some of us just dont have the cash for buying one, taking it out finding its not what we need and then haveing to sell it and buy a new one.....

ive been listening to the mech locker, vrs air locker debate for a while, as i want a locker int he future, but dont know what to get, im hearing great things bout the detroit soft locker, then i ask a guy at the local 4wd shop and he said any mech locker including the detroits(he was talkign bout normal lockers not the soft locker, and i piped up and he said he didnt have all that much experiance withthe soft lockers, but couldnt see why a soft locker would be any better than a normal locker) are a waste of time, and not as good as an air locker.

but i dont like the idea of going back to a open diff from my lsd, im thinking bout geting a mech locker on the back at one stage as alot of people recomend them on the back, and once i got the cash mabe a soft locker up front, but as i read on im not to sure.


now my other question is and here im talking about my experiance with cars - mainly v8s and turbos, i knwo alot of the guys like to get spooled diffs, now i know they are engadged all the time, so you get the skip out of the rear tyres when turning at slow speeds, the mech lockers dont act like this all the time do they?? they work more like a realy tight lsd yeah????

and also are mech lockers disliked buy insurance companies like spooled diffs are? as i know spooled diffs are illigal???

[Mick.]

My locker is listed on my insurance policy. ;) So know they don't care mate.

Cheers mick.

[boof]

Thankfully I installed my lokka before joining this forum and IMO its great I wouldnt change it or where I put it ( front). I will be installing one in the rear in the future and I will either go the detroit or another lokka.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Funny thing about questions isn't it!! Answers might not be what you wanted!!

Anyhow, the Air Locker/Detroit Locker debate has only been going on since the Air locker was made as an Australian response to the capability the Detroits had been providing for agout 20 years and had been doing so in a virtual monopoly for at least that long!! The Air Locker was made to a budget, and to a certain extent, to suit the wide open spaces we have in Australia, where turning space wasn't a real issue. It was intended as a cheaper and Australian made solution for people who wanted a Detroit but couldn't afford it.

The Detroit people recognised the differences, and simply continued to highlight the advantages of full differentiation over the alternative 'its locked or it's open, no in-betweens!!' They spent the next 20 years continuing to upgrade their product, and still are! They have been going about the business for almost twice as long as the Air Locker mob too. They've tried just about all the versions of diff you've seen or heard of on the market in that development process, and yet they kept coming back to the auto UN-locking diff as being the best option!! In fact, what is sold now as the Lokka or Lockright is very similar to what Detroit sold 20 years ago, and they have re-released the EZe Locker in response to the call for the cheaper but not as capable product that is now on offer.

The Soft Locker is just the latest version of the Detroit. It provides positive locking, yet will disengage if one wheel is driven as little as 2" more at the tread than the other wheel! That means that it will disengage to allow lane changes, and the bit that gives it the Soft Locker title is the inclusion of lsd type clutch packs that dampen the release or the engage/disengage action, making the whole thing a very smooth and quiet process. You will experience no more impact on your on-road driving than you would get from a good quality LSD!!

The Detroit is fitted by replacing the entire guts of the diff, everything except the crown wheel and pinion. It then gets fitted as per your normal diff, uses the normal lsd oil, has the usual servicing as per your vehicle handbook and maintenance schedule and the instructions then say something along the lines of "go out and enjoy the traction!! There are no restrictions or limitations on your driving, just enjoy!" How does that stack up to the pages of limitations and restrictions that the Air Locker instructions entail??

The Soft Locker is the only version of the Series that Detroit sells now as a Detroit Locker, anything else is sold as a lesser version, ie the TruTrack, a geared LSD, the EZe Locker, a cheap and less competent made to a budget option, they also have a "SelecTrak" which is a TruTrak LSD with the additio of a Locking selector, providing LSD action unlocked, and fully locked ability when locked! It is looked upon as a less capable option than the Soft Locker, and isn't available (or likely to become available) in Australia!

The major benefit of the Detroit Softlocker over any manually selectable locker is that it WILL fully differentiate, just like an LSD, so when you attempt to turn, it allows it whenever the ground is sufficiently firm to warrant it. Igf it won't unlock, its 'cos you need the traction! The Air Locker and its contemporaries CANNOT do that and in doing what they DO do, they push fantastic stresses thru the drivetrain because the diff is either locked or open!! They have a number of issues that are highlighted in their own documentation by the restrictions and limitations that they put upon their operation!

All that said, Air Lockers do have their place. 98% of users in Australia really won't get a great deal of use out of 2 Detroits, but MANY would benefit from a Detroit in the rear and an Air Locker in the front. The Air Locker (as it was originally designed) would then be used as a get out of the goop free card; although the Detroit would provide a 100% increase of 4WD capability instantly, plus giving you 75% of the previous 4WD ability would be available in 2WD!! You should be able to see how the Air Locker would be used only on occassion and then just to get out of the goop!!

About SPOOL diffs, they simply are a spool shaped lump of metal that replaces the entire diff and you bolt the crown wheel onto it! It isnt locked as such, it is just solid!! Because Detroits still provide full differentiation they have none of the issues associated with spool diffs, and they are legal in all states on public roads! There have been periods when they have been banned from race tracks because of the unfair advantage that they give the driver of such an equipped vehicle, just ask Alan Moffatt about Detroits in race cars at Bathurst, he lost a lot of money and race position 'cos he had 2 Fords fitted with Detroits!

Hope that helps some, and doesn't show TOO much of my Detroit bias!!! HAVE FUN!

[Mick.]

Thankfully I installed my lokka before joining this forum and IMO its great I wouldnt change it or where I put it ( front). I will be installing one in the rear in the future and I will either go the detroit or another lokka.
I know a couple of people who are running the lokka diff locks and havn't had any problems either. I think most of the problems with any locker is usually caused by the way there fitted or driven.
I'm going to put another detroit in the rear of mine when my limited slip wears out also.

Cheers Mick.

[boof]

Thankfully I installed my lokka before joining this forum and IMO its great I wouldnt change it or where I put it ( front). I will be installing one in the rear in the future and I will either go the detroit or another lokka.
I know a couple of people who are running the lokka diff locks and havn't had any problems either. I think most of the problems with any locker is usually caused by the way there fitted or driven.
I'm going to put another detroit in the rear of mine when my limited slip wears out also.

Cheers Mick.


Yeh I agree Mick neither myself or people know with them have had a problem. I am aware of some powerful trucks with large tyres having problems with them(no not toms ::)) but for the normal recreation 4 wheeler IMO they are fine and a fair price. I could buy three lokkas for the price of one detroit or air locker, just need a third diff now ;D

[als4b]

i posted on this thread nearly three years ago and at that stage my lokka was in the rear and after feeling the difference on the road and the benifit offroad i would have no hesitation in buying another one. after three years of abuse and no breakages of any kind i removed it and put it in the front. The lokka had three teeth slightly chipped which had not affected the operation of it at all. Now that it lives up the front the only difference was heavier steering which i'm going to rectify by putting in power steering. i've destroyed the car but not the lokka but i dont drive stupidly but i give many tracks and obstacles a decent go not afraid of panel damage etc.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I've never said that Lokka's and Lockright's don't have a place, it's just that they are NOT a direct comparison with a Detroit Softlocker, neither is an Air Locker for that matter!!

I have used Lokka's & Lockright's in the past , and would do so again in the same circumstances, but if you want something with minimal impact on daily driving, but maximum traction in the bush, you simply can't go past the Detroit Softlocker UNLESS there is some other criteria (like the $$ available) that comes into play!! No denying the Detroit is more expensive, and crushers price of $1890 for a fitted (admittedly with new bearings and seals) Detroit goes a long way towards funding a Lokka and a good set of 'pede's!!

Just don't expect it to behave the same way a Detroit will, and putting it in the rear will minimise the likelihood of CV damage, but it WILL be there all the time and you'll have to put up with the odd bang or lurch. Fitting in the front increases the chances of CV damage and other diff/axle damage, but as you've all said, a lot of that comes back to driver behaviour! There's horses for courses, and we all have a slightly different set of needs, in my book, the Detroit is the only one that has no more impact on your driving and driveability than a good quality LSD, while it gives you unparallelled traction and ability in the ruff stuff!

[CanberraMav]

Bad Religion why dont you just jump down my throat everytime i write something. ::)

Detroits have there place and i would maybe use one if the terrain around my area was different but as it is usually slippery mud on hills......not safe

Im a strong fan of having the front diff being selectable for ease of driving

I have slid off the side of a very big hill due to a slippery cross slope and having a Detroit in the rear which encouraged the vehicle to slide sideways.

Im not saying dont listen to Peter or Mick but just saying he that screams the loudest is not always right!!

Bad Religion get your facts straight before you try to make me look bad ::)

[Patrolman Pat]

I have slid off the side of a very big hill due to a slippery cross slope and having a Detroit in the rear which encouraged the vehicle to slide sideways.


Cam you expand on this for me. I've read similar things and can't get my head around it. Surely having traction to both wheels on any axle would be better than having one (or both) without. ???

I went into opposite Lock today to chat lockers and was advised that locking the front forst was the go in my Patrol and the the guy (Jock) also said he was a fan of ther air locker which surprised me a bit.

[CanberraMav]

I would agree about locking the front first using an Airlocker.The Patrol Lsd's in the rear are good enough until you get really serious. You will get the bigger advantage if you lock the front.

When lockers are engaged the vehicle has a tendency to slide sideways on slippery side slopes because you are breaking traction with both tyres not just one.

I think the non slipping tyre acts as a anchor in a way and can prevent sliding when the diff lock is not engaged.

This is just a guess as i dont know the exact science of it but can definetly say from experience that it does make a difference.

[Patrolman Pat]

Cheers. That sort of makes sense even to me. ;D

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

CanberraMav, should I tell you now that a lot of my experience with Detroits and others was gathered in more than 20 years 4Wheeling around Canberra, the Snowies, and the Vic High Country? Almost 10 years based in Canberra, and another 10 working on the Snowy Scheme highlighted the major advantage of Detroits over any other sort of diff lock, AND it also pushed home the greater benefits of putting the Detroit in the rear first!!

As to sliding off a slippery hill, any diff lock or even a good LSD such as the Nissan LSD will tend to do that, if the downhill side travels further than the uphill side, and since most hillsides that you drive on are angled that way, it can be difficult to stop!! The advantage of a Detroit over any other, INCLUDING the LSD, is that if the ground is firm enough to cause any wheel to disengage, it won't happen AT ALL, 'cos it's now only driving the wheel with traction!! If the ground is so sloppy that the wheels won't disengage, (the same circumstances that gets any locker and most LSD's into the sideways slide) then the Detroit will drive BOTH wheels at the same speed, giving you the ability to crab sideways safely!! Now other lockers will do this too, you say, but the trap is when one wheel gets onto something a bit firmer and it drives harder than the slippery spinning one it will corkscrew the vehicle rapidly into an uncontrollable slide, UNLESS its a Detroit, when the faster ground driven wheel disengages and you are back at the beginning!! Sliding off a slippery hill with a Detroit fitted is usually associated with too much loud pedal, one of the things that Detroits negate the need for!!

The thing about getting serious and putting it in the front or not is that if you ARE going to get serious, fit the Detroit to the REAR first, 'cos not only do you get the benefit of increasing your 4WD ability by 100%, you ALSO get the benefit of having 75% of your previous 4WD ability available in 2WD, a benefit that I'm sure everyone can see!! The Detroit IS that much better than any LSD, the best of which is ONLY EVER going to transfer 40% of the drive - 100% has GOT to better!!

If you aren't sure how serious you want to get, then looking at front or rear can be a problem! The MOST benefit comes from the front, but it IS a good LSD and if you don't want to get much more serious, the extra provided by the front may be enough!! However, if there is the slightest incling that you might be looking for more later on, choose the rear and leave yourself the range of options for the front later!! You can put an LSD up front, a TruTrak up front, a Lokka, or a Detroit!! I personnally believe that MOST won't need another Detroit, but may want something like an LSD or TruTrak!!

[bad_religion_au]

Bad Religion why dont you just jump down my throat everytime i write something. ::)

Im not saying dont listen to Peter or Mick but just saying he that screams the loudest is not always right!!

Bad Religion get your facts straight before you try to make me look bad ::)


um i jumped there once.

get my facts straight?


Read the comments left by nearly everyone in this thread besides Peter and Mick and decide for yourself.


that sounds like "don't read mick and peters posts"

[CanberraMav]

Um dude???

Its implying that obviously they are saying to go with the Detroit so maybe read some other opinions ::)

And no its not the first time because you have done it in other threads.

A forum is pretty useless if people cant relay their experiences and thoughts to other people so therefore you dont need to get all defensive about your precious Detroit diffs

[CanberraMav]

Peter,

From my experiences in driving the mentioned conditions what you are saying did not happen. Ive driven these conditions in both Patrol, Cruiser and Suzuki with a variety of different diffs and i am being honest when i say that the ARB is easily superior.

I think what you are quoting regarding the operation of the Detroit is what Detroit would like to think is how their diff operates........

[CanberraMav]

Peter wrote:
giving you the ability to crab sideways safely!!

When there is a 10m fall off the side of a hill i do not wish to crab sideways at all. I disengage the locker (because i can) ;) and travel in much more safety.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Funny, I've been using these things (and others) in my 4WD tour operation for many years, and what I wrote were my own thoughts, experience, and words. I have been answering many of the questions re lockers on this forum because most just quote the ARB publicity and haven't even tried a Detroit, or they quote what 'everyone knows' not from their own experience.

Have you used the Detroit Series IV Softlocker in these conditions? I have. Have you used an ARB Air Locker in the same conditions? I have. When I left the Snowy, where I used both, I considered setting up a business based out of Canberra simply to recover people from the mountains who had been embarrassed because of their Air Lockers!! Where is the steepest part of a zig zag track up a steep mountainside? The TURN! Where can't you use your Air Locker? ON THE TURN! AND they don't always disengage when under load, or engage when under duress or in a turn. They aren't warranted for use with oversize tyres, or at speeds over 40 kph!! What sort of locker is that?

When you fit a Detroit, you use it and gain from the experience. When you fit an Air Locker, you really need to learn how to use it before you gain the most from it, and even then, it is LESS than that provided by the Detroit with its always locked drive that still provides FULL differentiation. Some people DO learn to use air lockers to their fullest, but the Detroit doesn't take anywhere near as long to learn how to use, nor have anywhere the restictions!!

If you have any issues with that, check out the instructions for a Detroit. Fit and enjoy is a fairly succinct precis. Check out the Air Locker instructions, they give you a whole list of things NOT to do, (pages of them!) and a whole list of circumstances that the warranty is not valid in?? Is that because it is better and easier to use?? Not in my opinion!

I'll go back to the World's military. When the military want a vehicle to be able to go as far as possible without any major training issues or difficulties in operation, for the average Joe to use, they choose the Detroit Locker. Almost all of the Defence organisations in the world have some vehicles fitted with Detroits. They may have a few other specialist vehicles, for specialist drivers, but their best all round general use choice is the Detroit. It is the same for almost every government or major commercial organisation in the world! By far the greatest locker in use is the Detroit, and it has been since World War II. They've come a long way since then, too!

Check out heavy vehicles and their lockers. What do they use when they need positive traction? It isn't the Air Locker, it is a Detroit Locker or the commercial version, the No-Spin Diff. Been around for donkey's ages and refined as the years go past into a very strong, very competent almost unbreakable and easy to use traction aid! The Air Locker was built in an attempt to match that capability and they are still trying!!

You may have your opinion, but I'm speaking from my experience and I'm attempting to share that experience for the benefit of all who use this forum. I think my advice and experience has helped just a few here in the past, and I believe that I can continue to help others by sharing that experience and advice! If you have issue with that it is YOUR issue, not mine!

[CanberraMav]

Peter

Its obvious to me that you think your experience exceeds anyone elses in Australia as you couldnt possibly be wrong!!The world military use them.....so what!! They also use Hummers and they are crap!!

Are you trying to imply that im making my experiences up or are you implying that they couldnt possibly compare with yours??

Peter wrote:
Have you used the Detroit Series IV Softlocker in these conditions? I have.
Yes i have and in many different vehicles and also being a member of 2 clubs i have also witnessed it in others.

Peter wrote:
I considered setting up a business based out of Canberra simply to recover people from the mountains who had been embarrassed because of their Air Lockers!!

Good thing you didnt because i would say you would have bugger all business.

Peter wrote:
When you fit a Detroit, you use it and gain from the experience. When you fit an Air Locker, you really need to learn how to use it before you gain the most from it, and even then, it is LESS than that provided by the Detroit with its always locked drive that still provides FULL differentiation. Some people DO learn to use air lockers to their fullest, but the Detroit doesn't take anywhere near as long to learn how to use, nor have anywhere the restictions!!

Its not rocket science mate. If you cant figure out how to use them after a days driving then maybe 4wding isnt for you!!

Peter wrote:
You may have your opinion, but I'm speaking from my experience and I'm attempting to share that experience for the benefit of all who use this forum. I think my advice and experience has helped just a few here in the past, and I believe that I can continue to help others by sharing that experience and advice! If you have issue with that it is YOUR issue, not mine!

I also am speaking from my experience even though you refuse to reconise it. I to am trying to help others and your biased comments about your beloved Detroit diffs who obviously sponsor are not the be all and end all. I dont have issues with you voicing your opinions and experiences as long as you take into account others. I think you have an issue with me because i challenge what you are saying. Please dont try to intimidate with your !!!!! and bold quotes. We have all listened to your opinion on these diffs so maybe its time to hear others.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

CanberraMav, I laid out a little of MY experience and where I had gained it to answer your questioning of it!

Don't belittle the fact that the world's military go thru an extensive testing and evaluation process before choosing their traction aids! And Hummers are in fact a very competent vehicle that is fantastic at what it was designed for!! Any Joe Soldier with no real driving skills can get in, select D and point it in the direction of intended travel, expecting it to go anywhere in the desert environment it was chosen for!

I too have been a member (and am currently a member) of more than 1 Club, and in fact, I've started more than 1!

The only reason I didn't start a business pulling Air Locker embarrassed vehicles out of the High Country & Snowies because the workload was simply TOO MASSIVE and I was meant to be retiring. The Bank's saw the figures and were prepared to back the business!

Almost all drivers take more than 1 day to learn how to get the best from air lockers, and some a lot longer, it doesn't mean that they aren't competent 4 wheelers! And there is still the list of exclusions and what to do's and what not to do's, versus the fit it, service it as normal, drive it as normal, go further of the Detroit.

I have and will continue to set out advantages and disadvantages of the many aids and accessories that I have used and trialled over the years (and been paid by Governments and Private Enterprise to do so, with my reports prized and acted upon!) I have never been paid by Detroit, or by anyone seeking to get me to sell Detroits. I have a loose affiliation with Opposite Lock, and I run trips and 4WD training for them when asked. I have never made a secret of that, nor do I believe that I have shown any bias towards their products over any other (alright, maybe only MOST others!)

I'm very sorry if I intimidated you with my !!! and the bold points, but they obviously highlighted the point concerned though, didn't they?

So let us agree to disagree about Lockers and leave it at that, letting the prospective buyers out there read all the advice given and treat it as worth the paper it is written on! Surely they can be considered wise enough to make a valid choice given the wealth of information that we and other very competent 4Wheelers have provided!

Remember, if you aren't Having Fun, you're not doing it right!

[CanberraMav]

Peter wrote:
I'm very sorry if I intimidated you with my !!! and the bold points, but they obviously highlighted the point concerned though, didn't they?

Its all good you dont need to apologise as i was hardly intimidated ;)

Peter wrote:
The only reason I didn't start a business pulling Air Locker embarrassed vehicles out of the High Country & Snowies because the workload was simply TOO MASSIVE and I was meant to be retiring. The Bank's saw the figures and were prepared to back the business!

This smells so strongly of B/S i think im about to gag. My friend is a Driver trainer/recovery and does exactly what you are talking about. There is no money in it at all and is more a hobby if anything. The people that we recover are generally idiots with no recovery gear or incorrectly modified vehicles and people with mechanical lockers that slide off the road on one particular track. Lucky we both have selectable lockers so we can reach them.

If im wrong correct me but dont Unimogs etc which the army use have cable operated diff locks???ie selectable???

Agree to disagree........sure no problem ;)

[BLU-125]

Peter

Leo Baas used to have an OL franchise in Toowoomba......

If driver training, exposure to Detroits, and arranging tag-a-longs are the criterea for expertise in this area, then Leo would be someone to listen to, wouln't he?

Leo has run ARB lockers for the 8 or 9 years that I have known him....

Ralph left the factory selectable lockers in both his Hummers, even though he has a very close relationship with Detroits........

I can't believe that you are serious when you talk about the ARB air locker being an attempt to create a "cheap competitor to the Detroit".......

[BLU-125]

And BTW,

Mr Moffat got pinged for breaking the rules by replacing the OE diffs.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

I'll let the product take over the arguement!

[bad_religion_au]

mmm your right, don't buy a detroit their so dangerous on road, i just got my truck running again... nervous as i was (having not driven the detroit fitted deathtrap for at least a month) i still braved it out... fearing the first approaching corner, my stomach in a knot i braved it and.................

bugger me, it handled predictably ;D. the entire trip, if i hadn't have fitted it myself, i wouldn't have known it was there. full lock u turns and all

peoples ignorance on auto lockers is the reason i could afford a detroit (no one bid on it on ebay). i was hessitant due to the B.S. flying around about airlockers being the ONLY choice... i'm glad i took that chance, because i'm reliably locked for $200... oh and it's improved the trucks onroad manners too...

but i'm wrong i guess. i must be spouting detroit literature blurbs (which i've never seen, as mine came wrapped in a greasy flanny) because it's a global conspiracy, and i'm being paid by detroit to promote my second hand, ebay difflock ::)

as for hummers sucking... for a stable, easy to drive desert vehicle, you couldn't find better. ok they won't go 12 rounds of WEROCK, or even fit down most our tracks, but for their intended design, they work.

this post has been edited to remove all exclamation marks, and bolded portions for the sensitive viewers ;D

[oondy]

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

i need a beer after reading all that...and its only 9:30am

cheers

OONDY

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

And BTW,

Mr Moffat got pinged for breaking the rules by replacing the OE diffs.



with something that gave him an 'unfair advantage' over other drivers. Would they have bothered if it didn't give him any advantage, or even made it harder for him? I don't think so!!

[CanberraMav]

Bad Religion,

I would buy Detroit diffs if they were all $200.........but they arnt.

Congratulations on getting it for that price but the whole topic of conversation is what is BETTER not cheaper.

Im not saying they are dangerous diffs but i think they are prone to being unpredictable. The one i had in my Sierra was a loud clunking thing that used to spit me across the road when i would take my foot off the accelerator then apply it hard. It also lasted about 13 months before it crapped itself. It was installed by Southern Diffs here in Canberra by the way and not a bodgy backyard job. And this was the latest and greatest that Detroit had to offer and promised to be smooth as it was a soft locker.

Before you say "but thats in a Suzuki" so what. If they are so great why cant they suit all applications.......ARB does.

Bad Religion wrote:
but i'm wrong i guess. i must be spouting detroit literature blurbs (which i've never seen, as mine came wrapped in a greasy flanny) because it's a global conspiracy, and i'm being paid by detroit to promote my second hand, ebay difflock

Um dude i was addressing Peter when i said he must be getting paid to promote these diffs. Are you Peters alter ego or something or can you not think for yourself.

Again congrats on your purchase...........if they were all $200 bucks id give them a good rap too.

[crusher]

Found this when I was surfing around, it gives another view on air and automatic lockers. Just thought it may be of some help to those people still trying to decide which way to go.

http://www.pps.net.au/4wdencounter/articles/difflocks.html

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

Suzuki's and ALL short wheel based vehicles will be effected far more than any medium or long wheel based vehicle when fitted with a locker, ANY locker!! That should have been made clear to you on your purchase. Apart from that, the clunks and jerks usually only happen if you are doing something that is not what is generally accepted as 'good driving'...... things like sudden or aggressive accellerating/decellerating or braking half way through a corner or manoeuvre, erratic steering and accellerator inputs, and things like running different size tyres, or different air pressures in tyres on the same axle. And all those same things will create issues with Air Lockers too, frequently associated with a sharp stabbing pain in the wallet as something further up or down the driveline gives up under all the stresses of not being able to differentiate!

Generally, the unpredictable bits and clunking that you mentioned dissappeared with the advent of the Series IV, and were even further refined out with the Softlocker and the latest improvements. Are you sure it was a Softlocker?

RE the 'crapped itself', the stats from the states suggest that they've had less than 1%of units 'crap' themselves out of over 30,000 on their competition circuit.

And you really should look at the instruction manual for the Air Locker from ARB, noting carefully all the limitations and exclusions to what you can and can't do, rather than blandly state ARB does!! Check out their warranty too, it makes for interesting reading.

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

BTW crusher, that's a good article on diff locks that you pointed out. I would disagree with his preference for front fitment, but that's been covered more than enough here and in other posts, so I won't go there.

Thanks for drawing my attention to the article.

[CanberraMav]

Ive read it all.
Its just your typical disclosure statement that alot of 4wd items come with.

Suzuki's and the like perform perfectly normal with an Airlocker due to the advantage of being able to unlock the diff.

Im sure i had the soft locker in it.....positive.

[crusher]

BTW crusher, that's a good article on diff locks that you pointed out. I would disagree with his preference for front fitment, but that's been covered more than enough here and in other posts, so I won't go there.

Thanks for drawing my attention to the article.


You'd be the last bloke that would need to read it Peter ;D its more for the mechanically challenged like me ???

Having said that if you read between the lines the author seems to have a preference for the automatic locker; and supports most of the things yourself and BR have mentioned in this thread and others previously.

At this point I am pretty certain thats the way I will be going in July when funds permit (ie the Detroit). I go driving with Mick from this forum regularly, and have witnessed first hand how his Detroit performs in his GQ, albeit with 37's.

But mine will be going in the front of the GQ. The GQ LSD gets me pretty well all places the locked guys go, its just that I have to use more momentum. ;)

The installation of the locker should enable me to drive the tracks a lot slower and thus more safely therefore hopefully minimising damage 8)

[Peter @ Aawen4x4]

No worries crusher, the Detroit will work with 33's or even 29's if you must!! Hey, they even put them in Cooper 'S's' when they were running tiny 10" rims and they worked there too!!

You've probly noticed that I suggest putting the locker in the rear first, but I have on a number of occassions pointed out that if you 'guesstimate' your traction needs, and aren't really sure, you'll get advantages in both 2WD and 4WD from a Detroit in the rear. However, if you 'almost' do all you want/need with the stock LSD, then going Detroit up front will surely satisfy your needs. You can 're-vitalise' the Nissan LSD with some Engine Oil Flush (500ml for 1000km) or even a re-build, and that and the Detroit up front will do almost all of what the majority of the 4Wheeling population are after.

If you're going to be looking for more traction later on, you'd still be better off doing the rear first and seeing how much extra you need, then the front, cos you can then tailor the front to that identified extra that you need! There are a few options for the front just to give a little bit extra or a lot extra, while the rear has really only 2 upgrade options, tighten the LSD or go for a Locker!!

Up front, you can look at things like the Eaton electrac (or is it Auburn Electric Locker) that allows you to have either an LSD or a manually locked diff. Detroit do a similar one, based on the TruTrak geared torque proportioning LSD, but it isn't imported and isn't likely to be unless there is unprecedented demand! Or, you could look at putting a Pathfinder rear LSD in the front, there is a bit of fiddling, but more and more are doing it! You could even go the whole hog and put in another Detroit.

Whatever you do, I'm sure that you'll enjoy the extra traction and it will make your driving that much more enjoyable knowing that the slower speed and greater pullability will result in far less chance of damage and hip pocket stress!! Enjoy it!!

[bad_religion_au]

Bad Religion,

I would buy Detroit diffs if they were all $200.........but they arnt.

Congratulations on getting it for that price but the whole topic of conversation is what is BETTER not cheaper.


i didn't quote the price to make it sound "better"... i quoted the price to show that i'm not defending my 2000+ purchase (like some airlocker owners may ;D). in my opinion, unless it's a comp buggy, where 1mm off line means the difference between 1st and 3rd place (with regards to your offcamber claims before), a detroit is better. it improves on road handling, and is a bulletproof locking option for offroad.

as for being peter's alter ego, umm no, we've disagreed on plenty ;D, but in this instance, where he, and mick, are trying to give people some good press about an often misunderstood product, you come in, shout them down, and claim to be a self proffessed god.

[CanberraMav]

Bad Religion wrote:
as for being peter's alter ego, umm no, we've disagreed on plenty , but in this instance, where he, and mick, are trying to give people some good press about an often misunderstood product, you come in, shout them down, and claim to be a self proffessed god.

Says you who could never be wrong. I havnt shouted anyone down and if anything have maintained politeness throughout the thread even with the likes of you jumping down my throat. Because i happen to disagree with the loudest friggin voices and opinions on the entire website doesnt mean im a self confessed god or even trying to be.

I just find it amusing when people try to tell me they know the terrain here when they probably havnt been here for the last 10 years. I drive the Brindabellas every weekend and im sure i would probably have a better idea than most about the terrain and what better suits it.

Bad Religion wrote:
a detroit is better. it improves on road handling, and is a bulletproof locking option for offroad.

I couldnt get my 4wd sideways if i tried. Who cares about superior cornering. Who cares about on road handling???The vehicle only really allows me to corner at very low speeds........i hardly need a locker to hold me onto the bitumen ::)

The Detroit is only better in some applications and as admitted by Peter.......some 4wd's. In shorty's they a harsh unforgiving ride.


Bad Religion wrote: unless it's a comp buggy, where 1mm off line means the difference between 1st and 3rd place (with regards to your offcamber claims before), a detroit is better.

Im talking about normal dirt roads that are highly muddy (ie the Brindabellas) with off camber hills. Are you trying to imply in this quote that a Airlocked vehicle is more controllable???????? Thats what it sounds like to me. Or are you saying that comp trucks purposely use a second rate locker because they want to win???

Why dont you like Peter and Mick defend themselves if you think that i am offending them in someways.

I have seen pictures of the terrain that Mick has driven.....Sorry Peter but i havnt seen any of you. It is tough terrain and im sure they are experienced drivers.

It would be a bit ordinary if you came into a thread and all it is is Peter and Mick saying how great Detroits are.

Ive said it before and ill say it again.......Detroits are good diffs but not superior in anyway.

I would not ever consider a mechanical diff in the front of my truck but would maybe in the rear depending on what i am using the truck for. But for the $$ I would prolly just go Lockright or similar.

[bad_religion_au]

Bad Religion wrote:
a detroit is better. it improves on road handling, and is a bulletproof locking option for offroad.

I couldnt get my 4wd sideways if i tried. Who cares about superior cornering. Who cares about on road handling???The vehicle only really allows me to corner at very low speeds........i hardly need a locker to hold me onto the bitumen ::)

The Detroit is only better in some applications and as admitted by Peter.......some 4wd's. In shorty's they a harsh unforgiving ride.


Bad Religion wrote: unless it's a comp buggy, where 1mm off line means the difference between 1st and 3rd place (with regards to your offcamber claims before), a detroit is better.

Im talking about normal dirt roads that are highly muddy (ie the Brindabellas) with off camber hills. Are you trying to imply in this quote that a Airlocked vehicle is more controllable???????? Thats what it sounds like to me. Or are you saying that comp trucks purposely use a second rate locker because they want to win???

It would be a bit ordinary if you came into a thread and all it is is Peter and Mick saying how great Detroits are.

Detroits are good diffs but not superior in anyway.



it's not just about "getting it sideways" handling has many dynamics. you don't care how your rig handles? i'm sure the person you almost run up the back of because you lost concentration, or the person you should really swerve around does care. you telling me you never use engine compression to slow your rig down? well a detroit means you have 2 tires worth of traction to slow down with, not just one... again, i didn't fit it to make my 40 a race car, but one benefit (i didn't expect) was an improvement in how it drove onroad... a pleasant surprise one may say. oh... and by reducing wheelspin on road, your increasing tire life... gee wouldn't want that either. ::)

the effects are more pronounced in shorties... but learn to drive smoothly (again, a skill you should have as a motorist) and you don't know it's there... after all mine is fitted to a shorty and like i said, it's a pleasure to drive since the detroit went in.

as for the comp truck issue. my point is that compeditors are aiming to squeeze through a set of gates that are just wider than their rigs. sometimes the ability to have an open diff (especially for use with cutting brakes) allows more exact positioning on the track. for most wheelers however, they don't need that finess, and if they do, they have the time to back up and try a different line.

it's also a bit ordinary to come into a thread and only read praise for the ARB's. until mick and Peter, i've never heard anyone sing the praises of any auto locker.

and that last line is a change in tune, from "theyre dangerous" to "they're a good piece of kit, just not superior"

[CanberraMav]

Bad Religion wrote:
and by reducing wheelspin on road, your increasing tire life... gee wouldn't want that either.

Who gets wheelspin on the road. ::) maybe you should adjust your driving style. ???

. you telling me you never use engine compression to slow your rig down? well a detroit means you have 2 tires worth of traction to slow down with, not just one... again

I do use the gears to slow down. But i have never ever had compression lockup because i dont have a diff lock. Again if this is the case with you maybe you need to change your driving style ::)

the effects are more pronounced in shorties... but learn to drive smoothly (again, a skill you should have as a motorist) and you don't know it's there

Why should i have to adjust my driving style?? Do i not have the right to back off the accelerator and then on again while cornering without the diff binding up on me??

[BLU-125]

Peter, Allan Moffatt got pinged for breaking the rules. No one has ever suggested that Detroits don't work well on smooth Race Tracks, and he did gain an advantage. BTW, I was running a Cooper S in 1972 in Improved Touring & then Group C. Never struck a Detroit for a Mini. The various British made LSDs I used created so much torque steer that I would never have used one on the road. When I built a Cooper for Tarmac Rallies in the mid '90s I actually bought a Qaiffe (sp) which was supposed to be the best you could buy, but I reverted to an open diff for road rallies. ::)

[beerhound]

Detroit E-Z Locker for Ifs Hilux/surf

Model No. 811A017

for toyota 7.5"IFS diffs 27 spline.

You'll save money ordering them directly from the states. Cost between $380-470 and can be delivered within days to your door. Can't remember where I got mine from as it's been ages since I had it shipped over, but that's definately the way to go instead of forking it to Op lock. Fitted to the front of the vehicle to help lessen the chance of farking the front crownwheel, however this has the tendency to push the stress to the cv's as the tie rods flex at odd angles. Haven't had any problems as yet, Cheers